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Martell Rose

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#1
MagnusLothar

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I was a staunch Martell player with 1st edition and I've been determined to maintain my loyalty into 2nd Ed. Relative to other factions, Martell has struggled so far: it's a far cry from what it was in its 1st edition heyday.

But perhaps the tide is beginning to turn. Tyrell has always seemed to me to be the banner with the best natural synergies for Martell, and in the latest chapter pack we have Lady Sansa's Rose. More intriguing is the appearance in the same pack of Nymeria Sand who develops the theme of icon removal in a fascinating way. In my view, these two cards mark a significant step forward for Martell.

---------------------------

Total Cards: (61)

Faction: Martell

Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Rose (Core Set)

Plot: (7)
1x A Clash of Kings (Core Set)
1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Jousting Contest (Core Set)
1x Rebuilding (Core Set)
1x Summons (Core Set)

Character: (34)
1x Areo Hotah (Core Set)
3x Arianne Martell (Core Set)
3x Bastard Daughter (Taking the Black)
1x Edric Dayne (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
3x Greenblood Trader (Core Set)
3x House Dayne Knight (Core Set)
1x Maester Caleotte (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
2x Nymeria Sand (The Road to Winterfell)
1x Obara Sand (Core Set)
1x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
2x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
1x Syrio Forel (The Road to Winterfell)
3x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
3x The Red Viper (Core Set)

Attachment: (4)
1x Dawn (Core Set)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
1x Little Bird (Core Set)
1x Seal of the Hand (Core Set)

Event: (11)
3x Confinement (Core Set)
2x Doran’s Game (Core Set)
3x Lady Sansa’s Rose (The Road to Winterfell)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)

Location: (12)
3x Blood Orange Grove (Core Set)
3x Ghaston Grey (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)

---------------------------

Deck Analysis/Commentary: The following is simply an attempt to explain and justify choices.

Arianne Martell
For some time she sat at 2x. I still don't feel she shines yet as she ought to shine, but the new cards gave her enough targets to put into play that I upped her to 3x. And most of those targets will do something to put pressure on the game state: Areo, Margaery, Nymeria, Olenna's Informant, Syrio, Knight of Flowers. I'm quite happy to place her in set-up (providing she has a chud or two for company) as she can immediately interfere with my opponent's plans. Her usefulness pre-trigger has already been recognised.

The Strength-Boost Conundrum
No Doran Martell. Quite true and no oversight. Margaery does a far more efficient job: the +3 will potentially push through a Doran's Game or a Sansa's Rose, regardless of whether anyone happens to be a lord or lady or not. The Viper's reaction is easier to trigger with Margaery too, especially if she happens to have Seal of the Hand. And Dawn? Yes, Edric may be an obvious target, but to be frank I'd rather see it on a House Dayne Knight who doesn't need to worry about having icons or a basic strength to get going. Seeing a chud become a monster with intimidate is amusing.

Tears Fears
The already-noted threat posed by Nymeria with Tears can't be disputed. It's simply an extension of the Confinement shenanigans which extends an invitation to Danny, Tywin, Jaime and others. I think these three cards represent a subtle threat in the deck which any opponent must always be alert to.

The Knights
Lady Sansa's Rose finds obvious synergy with the Knight of Flowers, with his built-in (unless milked) version of jousting contest. He'll do the business for sure, but wouldn't it be far more fun to have a House Dayne Knight pull it off? A mid- to late-game intrigue challenge - if Margaery or Arianne is in play and you have a Doran's Game and Sansa's Rose in hand - could be devastating, particularly if the Knight has Dawn attached.

Syrio?
His presence isn't a necessity, but there are certain scenarios in which he'd be useful. Pushing through a Doran's Game or Sansa's Rose thanks to his action, for instance. Imagine the Knight described above, with stealth...

Draw...
...is weak. Counting Coppers may force its way into the plot deck. There are the Traders, and there's Summons, but draw is an issue for sure. Martell needs a draw location!

Why not Rebuild?
Targ decks increasingly run Rebuilding, and why shouldn't Martell? What events in this deck would you not want to see again? Oh, and there's that location that everyone hated in 1st Ed...

----------------------

What are your views about Martell Rose? Do you think it's the way forward for Martell?

Comments welcome about the deck too. :-)

#2
agktmte

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First thought I had was "why no Arbor Knight?"

 

If you are planning to use Lady Sansa's Rose, why are you limiting the choices for knights?

 

Taking this further: Both Arbor Knight and House Dayne Knight lack a power icon (as does Edric and Nymeria and Bastard Daughter and Greenblood Trader and ...) so Noble Lineage would not be the most ridiculous card to include if you do use Arbor Knight.


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#3
Alexfrog

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I was a staunch Martell player with 1st edition and I've been determined to maintain my loyalty into 2nd Ed. Relative to other factions, Martell has struggled so far: it's a far cry from what it was in its 1st edition heyday.

But perhaps the tide is beginning to turn. Tyrell has always seemed to me to be the banner with the best natural synergies for Martell, and in the latest chapter pack we have Lady Sansa's Rose. More intriguing is the appearance in the same pack of Nymeria Sand who develops the theme of icon removal in a fascinating way. In my view, these two cards mark a significant step forward for Martell.

---------------------------

Total Cards: (61)

Faction: Martell

Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Rose (Core Set)

Plot: (7)
1x A Clash of Kings (Core Set)
1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Jousting Contest (Core Set)
1x Rebuilding (Core Set)
1x Summons (Core Set)

Character: (34)
1x Areo Hotah (Core Set)
3x Arianne Martell (Core Set)
3x Bastard Daughter (Taking the Black)
1x Edric Dayne (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
3x Greenblood Trader (Core Set)
3x House Dayne Knight (Core Set)
1x Maester Caleotte (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
2x Nymeria Sand (The Road to Winterfell)
1x Obara Sand (Core Set)
1x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
2x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
1x Syrio Forel (The Road to Winterfell)
3x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
3x The Red Viper (Core Set)

Attachment: (4)
1x Dawn (Core Set)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
1x Little Bird (Core Set)
1x Seal of the Hand (Core Set)

Event: (11)
3x Confinement (Core Set)
2x Doran’s Game (Core Set)
3x Lady Sansa’s Rose (The Road to Winterfell)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)

Location: (12)
3x Blood Orange Grove (Core Set)
3x Ghaston Grey (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)

---------------------------

Deck Analysis/Commentary: The following is simply an attempt to explain and justify choices.

Arianne Martell
For some time she sat at 2x. I still don't feel she shines yet as she ought to shine, but the new cards gave her enough targets to put into play that I upped her to 3x. And most of those targets will do something to put pressure on the game state: Areo, Margaery, Nymeria, Olenna's Informant, Syrio, Knight of Flowers. I'm quite happy to place her in set-up (providing she has a chud or two for company) as she can immediately interfere with my opponent's plans. Her usefulness pre-trigger has already been recognised.

The Strength-Boost Conundrum
No Doran Martell. Quite true and no oversight. Margaery does a far more efficient job: the +3 will potentially push through a Doran's Game or a Sansa's Rose, regardless of whether anyone happens to be a lord or lady or not. The Viper's reaction is easier to trigger with Margaery too, especially if she happens to have Seal of the Hand. And Dawn? Yes, Edric may be an obvious target, but to be frank I'd rather see it on a House Dayne Knight who doesn't need to worry about having icons or a basic strength to get going. Seeing a chud become a monster with intimidate is amusing.

Tears Fears
The already-noted threat posed by Nymeria with Tears can't be disputed. It's simply an extension of the Confinement shenanigans which extends an invitation to Danny, Tywin, Jaime and others. I think these three cards represent a subtle threat in the deck which any opponent must always be alert to.

The Knights
Lady Sansa's Rose finds obvious synergy with the Knight of Flowers, with his built-in (unless milked) version of jousting contest. He'll do the business for sure, but wouldn't it be far more fun to have a House Dayne Knight pull it off? A mid- to late-game intrigue challenge - if Margaery or Arianne is in play and you have a Doran's Game and Sansa's Rose in hand - could be devastating, particularly if the Knight has Dawn attached.

Syrio?
His presence isn't a necessity, but there are certain scenarios in which he'd be useful. Pushing through a Doran's Game or Sansa's Rose thanks to his action, for instance. Imagine the Knight described above, with stealth...

Draw...
...is weak. Counting Coppers may force its way into the plot deck. There are the Traders, and there's Summons, but draw is an issue for sure. Martell needs a draw location!

Why not Rebuild?
Targ decks increasingly run Rebuilding, and why shouldn't Martell? What events in this deck would you not want to see again? Oh, and there's that location that everyone hated in 1st Ed...

----------------------

What are your views about Martell Rose? Do you think it's the way forward for Martell?

Comments welcome about the deck too. :-)

 

I really like Tyrell banner as the pairing for Martell.  Olenna's Informant is a great Arianne target and combos with Sunspear, and you get Loras as a target as well.  Adding Nymeria and Syrio from the recent pack and we might finally have enough Arianne targets to create a real deck.  (She is SUPER strong when you can use her every turn.  The fact that you can use discounts on her and then get Syrio out with her, essentially allowing you to discount a neutral, is also great).

 

Adding Lady Sansa's rose as another way to gain lots of power helps fix the martell problem of taking way too many turns to finish the game.

 

 

 

I think a Sunspear should be included, as that card is strong. Also, support of the people fetches Gashton Grey, so it should probably be made room for. 

 

 

 

I dont understand why rebuilding is getting played in any deck, it seems useless to me.  If some Targ players are playing it, then I guess that when you play the strongest faciton in the game, you can play the worst plot in the game as well and still manage to win and then come under the delusion that the card isnt terrible. :)   Any game where Targ plays multiple Dracarys it should win, it shouldnt need to shuffle them back into the deck.  Counting Coppers seems liek a far more useful plot, it fixes the draw issue.


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#4
VonWibble

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Have to agree on Rebuilding. I can see it working in a deck with lots of draw an search. This is not that deck.

What is the Little Bird there for? I think I'd prefer a Bodyguard if you are just protecting Randyll/Flowers from Tears.

#5
agktmte

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Have to agree on Rebuilding. I can see it working in a deck with lots of draw an search. This is not that deck.

What is the Little Bird there for? I think I'd prefer a Bodyguard if you are just protecting Randyll/Flowers from Tears.


If the reason is protecting from tears, i actually prefer little bird for those guys. Getting an additional challenge opportunity for either one them is great.
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#6
Alexfrog

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Have to agree on Rebuilding. I can see it working in a deck with lots of draw an search. This is not that deck.

What is the Little Bird there for? I think I'd prefer a Bodyguard if you are just protecting Randyll/Flowers from Tears.

Rebuilding only seems useful if you are tutoring for 'max 1 per deck' cards, and using it to recur them.

 

If you arent tutoring for the cards, shuffling them back into your deck is just too low impact because your chances of seeing them are still low.  Even with 'search 10' effects its still not huge.

 

If the cards you are tutoring for arent 'max one per deck', then instead of playing rebuilding, just play more copies, so that there is still one left in your deck each time you want to tutor for it.  You shouldnt run out if you had 3.



#7
MagnusLothar

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Thanks for the feedback, guys. Working on a revised version of the deck, taking on board your comments.

I will say just now, though, that in my Targ-Lion deck Rebuilding has been great. Seeing some recursion of Dracarys, Tears, Treachery, Hand's Judgement... Apart from anything else, it's stats are good. For this Martell deck, its inclusion beyond recursion was to help replay Arianne or get TRV/Randall out mid-game if Noble Cause was used up.



#8
Nestalim

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Doran Martell doesn't shine as he would in a felty deck, but I always find him really powerful. The insight helps a lot as the deck lacks of draw engine, and makes Edric pretty decent.

 

I do belive he's not an excellent 6-drop, but still a good 1x in any Martell deck.

 

Also, I agree on how Martell lacks of draw engine, which is a shame for a Control faction.



#9
NikolaP

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In a Martell Fealty, draw is fine, 3xTraders, 2xDoran, Littlefinger or two, Counting Coppers and you're good to go. Losing an int challenge is less likely, so you should have a decent hand.

But, in a banner, Trader and Doran are more expensive, Doran isn't that good, so, I agree, topdecking can happen.



#10
Nestalim

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Well draw is fine, but lacks in consistency. We're far from the Lannisport engine or the mighty Red Keep that Lanni and Bara owns as powerfull draw engine for control deck.



#11
NikolaP

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I agree. I'd like to see Martell draw off of losing challenge (on defense for instance), or something to do with used plot pile, to keep them in the theme. Long Plan should've been designed with that in mind, but it's not as bad a plot as I initially thought.



#12
MagnusLothar

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As good as Counting Coppers can be, I sometimes resent having to give up a slot for it.

#13
Nestalim

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I never tried the Long Plan, the only way I could found it good is with a Lanni agenda, where Tyrion will shines. Otherwise, I found narrow to pass my turn to have a better economy on the next one, or maybe I'm missing something.



#14
Masterdinadan

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Following Long Plan with a Varys or a Wildfire seems to be ideal use. Soft reset the board when you have more coins and cards than you opponent and then make your comeback.

#15
dampersand

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I built a similar deck here: http://www.cardgamed...d-bastards-r292

 

...which I've been DYING to get some feedback on since I haven't been able to play it except in a couple short tests, but that's beside the point :P  

 

I suck at this game, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt:

 

I'm really excited to see you also taking the lady sansa's rose approach.  The way I see Martell nowadays is as a faction with a massive, gimmicky power grab - which isn't really optimal for any good, solid deck, let's face it... but I really think that's the only legitimate option available to it, so why not play it that way?  Doran's Game can be unfairly silly if you can get it to fly, and nymeria/confinement really work well to help pull it off.  The ladies/knights trick is also a really strong way to go.

 

You talk about Arianne quite a bit and have her as a 3x.  I seldom run her above 2x, ENTIRELY because her ability effectively throws any dupes away.  My other concern against running 3x is the idea that if you DO have her out on the board then any time you draw another copy, that copy is not only dead in your HAND but also cost you one of your precious, precious draws (of which we all know Martell has so few).  If she's vital to your strategy (AlexFrog lays out some really good use with her that you've started on), 3x is important, but if she's not, you might be able to trim some fat by knocking her down. 

 

I don't know about The Red Viper.  His text is very strong if you've already got a lot of other guys on the board to push a massive challenge through, but usually all you're using him for is a fat 7.  Now, if you're aiming for that super satisfying really big powergrab, he's absolutely brilliant and must be played around, which can really stalemate out the board if your opponent is paying attention... but again, is it a major of your strategy?  Do you need all three?  You already have Randyll and KoF as big fatty finishers (KoF is a HUGE pain with his joust ability).

 

Olenna and Areo are phenomenal with Arianne, and very solid alone - why so few of them when you've so many of her?

 

Maester Caleotte - only one?  Why?  If you were running Here to Serve, that would make more sense (but then you'd be running Here to Serve, and then you gotta decide of Caleotte is that important to your overall strategy).  Otherwise, I think I'd pick either three-of or none-of.

 

I don't like Heartsbane at all in this deck.  It's basically only ever going on Randyll or KoF (maybe Olenna's Informant?), and while it does have good synergy with Randyll, it doesn't really help KoF that much - USUALLY KoF is going to get an offensive challenge through with his built-in joust, beating all but the very large characters (and if he forces one of the very large characters to kneel, that's quite good - the difference between 5STR and 6STR is huge).  So basically unless Randy's on the board, Heartsbane is just kind of dead in hand... Though I could just be missing something very obvious.

 

There's some talk about Rebuilding - I actually like it in Martell decks (again, I suck at this game, so grains of salt are good here).  You really can't overlook the stats, especially if you're playing Arianne (the difference between 4 and 5 gold is abhorrently large), and Martell damn near always wants to go second (although this doesn't seem like too much of a go-secondy deck to me), so the 5-5-1 stats really help.  Plus, a lot of Martell's control meat - confinement, ghaston grey, tears - work really well with it.  Since we have a 3-card limit per deck (instead of a 4-card like in Magic), decks tend to be a little less tuned, so increasing the chances that you'll draw a key card is pretty wonderful, even if you're not tutoring it up.  I don't take the card for the ability alone, I take it as a 'yes, all of these things help and I would like an extra effect on top of an average econ card.'

 

I dunno.  I'd love your thoughts on some of these thoughts, because I'd like to know if anyone thought they were thought-worthy thoughts as well...


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#16
hagarrr

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Following Long Plan with a Varys or a Wildfire seems to be ideal use. Soft reset the board when you have more coins and cards than you opponent and then make your comeback.

 

The Long Plan followed with Trading with the Pentoshi really allows me to pollute the board with characters after a well timed Varys



#17
NikolaP

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Long Plan is a good opener, reserve of 8, it usually allows you to choose to be 2nd player (Noble Cause is common opener), play a couple of weenies, preferably Bastard Daughter and Traders to fill your hand. Couple of chump blocks and chump attacks should leave you with a few gold coins and a card advantage (intrigue challenge is priority). Then, turn 2 - Counting Coppers gives a nice hand of cards with multiple options to play and 4, 5+ gold + reducers. Trading With Pentoshi entering card pool makes these two opening plots so much better.



#18
Masterdinadan

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I don't see the appeal of following Long Plan with Trading with Pentoshi. You are getting a massive influx of gold during a turn when you probably don't need it (if you actually carried gold over with Long Plan which is the while point)

Counting Coppers followed by Trading with the Pentoshi is probably better.

#19
hagarrr

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I don't see the appeal of following Long Plan with Trading with Pentoshi. You are getting a massive influx of gold during a turn when you probably don't need it (if you actually carried gold over with Long Plan which is the while point)

Counting Coppers followed by Trading with the Pentoshi is probably better.

 

The Long Plan followed with Trading with the Pentoshi really allows me to pollute the board with characters after a well timed Varys

 

Definitely need the gold post-Varys!



#20
agktmte

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I like the idea of Long Plan -> Counting Coppers -> Trading with the Pentoshi.

 

That seems like an interesting opening plot sequence. I guess the problem would be disruptions and whether you can afford not to deviate in most games.

 

Anyone doing this in their decks already and want to discuss this more?