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Edge battle resolution steps and 'I have you now'


Best Answer medfreeman , 01 February 2016 - 07:51 PM

I have you now : 'If you win this edge battle, destroy a target participating enemy unit.'

Let's say it creates a lasting effect that will trigger when the edge battle is resolved.

The missing 'When this edge battle is resolved' is implied as it would make for a bad sentence.

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17 replies to this topic

#1
darthbs

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Hi

With all the recent talk about fate cards and edge battles I have this question.

The core rules state that all fate cards must be resolved in priority order before moving on to the final step of determining who has edge.

I have you now - if you win the edge battle, destroy a target participating enemy unit.

If you follow the steps logically this fate card can not resovle within the fate card resolving step. It needs the final step to determine if it can be resolved.

It creates a paradox where you can't resovle the fate card as you haven't won the edge yet and you can't win the edge until you have resolved all the fate cards.

I know we play it as its supposed to be played but if following the exact timings it doesn't make sense.

Am I missing something here?
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#2
yodaman

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Interesting catch, darthbs.  I'll be curious to see what the rules gurus have to say about this one.


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#3
KennedyHawk

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Interesting dilemma, and with cards like Tyrdirium and Gaffi Stick, you may destroy an enemy unit changing the outcome of en edge battle. It should probably say something like, When edge stacks are discarded, if you won the edge battle blah blah blah.



#4
medfreeman

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✓  Best Answer

I have you now : 'If you win this edge battle, destroy a target participating enemy unit.'

Let's say it creates a lasting effect that will trigger when the edge battle is resolved.

The missing 'When this edge battle is resolved' is implied as it would make for a bad sentence.



#5
darthbs

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Yeah if I was the dark side attacking and looked to win edge by 1 I went to destroy a enemy unit, they played narrow escape bounced the effect back onto a target unit that gave me edge (1) killing it which tied the edge meaning they won. Thus not winning the edge battle.

Yikes!

#6
darthbs

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I have you now : 'If you win this edge battle, destroy a target participating enemy unit.'
Let's say it creates a lasting effect that will trigger when the edge battle is resolved.
The missing 'When this edge battle is resolved' is implied as it would make for a bad sentence.

I think you may be right and it would be viewed as a lasting effect.

If not you could golden rule it but I'm not sure if you can golden rule a timing structure?

As one of my friends pointed out the use of the word 'if' creates a lasting effect. The card resolves then the edge battle resolves and then the lasting effect if still meeting conditions can resolve.

My example of using narrow escape when the lasting effect is resolved would not change the out come of the edge battle as it has already resolved.

Answered my own question I thinks.

#7
chiller087

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We already have cards in the game that have delayed effects. Deploy the Fleet, Unfinished Business and Infiltration come to mind. Technically, once an action is played and is in the middle of resolving, a 2nd action can't be played until the first action is completely finished resolving. If we said, for example, that Infiltration doesn't finish resolving until its delayed effects are complete, then no other action could be legally played in that same phase until the end of that phase, since that is when Infiltration would technically be finished.

We know this isn't the case, because an action, reaction, interrupt or a fate card all follow the same 6-step process of resolving, and all of them can finish resolving even if there are delayed effects that happen after its resolution is completed.

Resolving a fate card (or any card) simply means to do any of its initial effects, and then setup any delayed effects that will happen later. Delayed effects can sometimes be a pain as far as timing, but I really don't see a conundrum here, personally.
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#8
dbmeboy

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Yep, I Have You Now sets up a delayed effect when resolved in your edge stack which waits to see who wins the edge battle.



#9
Utinni

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Yep, I Have You Now sets up a delayed effect when resolved in your edge stack which waits to see who wins the edge battle.

 

So when would you play adaptive strategy? After the edge battle is over or when the card sets up the delayed effect? My guess would be after edge is determined and the DS player checks to see if it resolved successfully.



#10
medfreeman

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So when would you play adaptive strategy? After the edge battle is over or when the card sets up the delayed effect? My guess would be after edge is determined and the DS player checks to see if it resolved successfully.

Adaptive Strategy: 'Reaction: After a fate card effect resolves, resolve that effect again as if that card were in your edge stack.'

The fate card effect resolves when you reach its priority number, during the process of resolving all fate card effects by priority, before determining the winner of the edge battle.

So you'd have to play Adaptive strategy just after the delayed effect has been set, probably knowing at this point if you'll win the edge or not, since you can see all the cards in both edge stacks.

Edit: as seen in tarkin vs hero's beginning, http://www.cardgamed...al-bureaucracy/,
after you resolve the effects of a card, they're fully resolved, even if setting up a delayed / lasting effect. Playing adaptive strategy after the delayed part of the effect resolved wouldn't work, since the card effect already fully resolved moments ago, before determining rhe winner of the edge battle.

#11
dbmeboy

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I Have You Now is actually an interesting case in this.  The text that sets up the delayed effect is also conditional requirement. Per previous official responses, if you don't meet the conditional requirement, the effect does not resolve.  Thus, I Have You Now may more properly be said to set up a delayed ability, not just a delayed effect. 

 

If the player who placed I Have You Now does not win the edge battle, the delayed ability fails the conditional requirement check and the effect does not resolve.  If the player who placed I Have You Now does win the edge battle, that is the point in which the effect ends up resolving (and that is the point Adaptive Strategy can copy it).



#12
medfreeman

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Ok thanks ! my bad, mixed up fate card resolving and fate card effect resolving :)



#13
dbmeboy

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No worries.  I Have You Now creates some unique situations that basically makes it the special case for several interactions.



#14
Jarratt

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I see I have you now as broken into three parts

The card
The Ability
The effect

The card begins to resolve at fate priory 10. It initiates the ability because that is what fate cards do. The ability creates a condition for an effect and a delayed resolution. The fate card resolves.

The edge battle is determined. The ability now checks it condition. If that it positive it begins to resolve the effect. Unit is destroyed and the effect is resolved.

For Adaptive strategy to copy the effect it must resolve first so the side who plays I Have You Now must win the edge battle.

For Hallucination to resolve the effect (destroy participating unit) It is unimportant who wins the edge battle. Hallucination also gets to resolve the effect at priority 4, before the edge battle winner is determined.

Luke's Speeder Bike has me stumped though. Assuming I have you now is played by the DS and the DS win edge, does it get to run away? Does it only get yo run away when it is the LS turn. Does it never get to run away?

#15
dbmeboy

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Yep, that's a good breakdown for how I Have You Now works out.

As for the speeder bike, IHYN should happen first. The delayed ability will "go off" immediately once its timing point is reached, before Reactions to the same timing point can be triggered.

#16
Toggle

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Since it's a delayed effect, should the card be renamed from "I Have You Now" to "I'll See You Later"?


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#17
Jarratt

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Since it's a delayed effect, should the card be renamed from "I Have You Now" to "I'll See You Later"?


Against Jedi definitely.

#18
Boreas

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Yep, that's a good breakdown for how I Have You Now works out.

As for the speeder bike, IHYN should happen first. The delayed ability will "go off" immediately once its timing point is reached, before Reactions to the same timing point can be triggered.

 

But why?