Areo Hotah

It's far worse than Areo from Princes of the Sun. Discard 5 cards and many conditions makes this version poor.

I think it could be useful with The Prince's Plans (TIoR). If you get it early that's effectively a 4 card draw and dead character. Not having to kneel to trigger the effect compared to POTS version is huge as well - I can trigger this effect twice in a turn thanks to vengeful (which also protects to an extent against being knelt early). Plus I don't think discarding 5 cards is that bad if done sparingly, assuming you aren't facing a mill deck. And he's cheaper - 4 cost ally is a big thing against POTS Areo.

Think about how you would feel as an attacker facing Areo. You can't throw in decent characters because they will die to him unless they are duped etc. Therefore you have to win challenges with characters you don't mind losing. I can see some decks struggling with this.

I think OOH I could see Stark (Tully), Targ or Bara finding use for this. A lot of possibilities, especially with the Baratheon plot card in this pack.

I don't think its an amazing card, and certainly not an autoinclude in my martell deck. But I don't think he's terrible either.

even though five cards is steep in a way, its a cost that can be activated without spending in hand or in play resources. That could have a serious psychological scare efffect on your opponent if he cant deal with him outside of challenges, and being vengeful means he has the potential to activate multiple times in a turn, which is scary.

As VonWibble said, some decks and players will struggle with how to handle him.

I like this version a lot, would you consider sending one of the new fleets to join combat once he had been declared as a defender? In a cycle dedicated to naval enhancements its good to see Martell getting cards that dissuade people from using fleets against them, especially as they don't have a fleet of their own.

Few issues:
1) There is significant possibility that you will discard better cards than the character you have chosen,
2) Combo: Areo Hotah (PotS) with Rumors of War (TBoBB) and you can easily kill any character (not just participating but any (even controlled by other opponent); I think i would be scary off by possibility of using this combo in deck. And I don't have to lose anything (like 5 cards)... Well?

As far as 1) goes, it's kinda irrelevant. Unless you're playing against Greyjoy (and they have effects triggering off things being in your discard pile), a Targaryen player with Visenya's Hill (and they can move your awesome characters to your dead pile) or unless you mill yourself down to having an empty draw deck, losing 5 cards off the deck means nothing. You're just as likely to have the 5 cards below them be what you wanted as you are to have the 5 cards you discarded be it. If it said "discard the bottom 5 cards of your deck" instead, would you have the same issue even though chances are you never would've drawn those 5 cards? Because while all your cards are "unknowns" in your deck, the top 5 cards and bottom 5 cards are equally as likely to be any of your cards (unless you're playing around with Herald of the Sun or something, which this card obviously synergises horribly with).
For 2), well the moment you introduce a second card the chances of your plan going wrong double. What if they play a Paper Shield and you're left losing a challenge by 1-3 STR instead of 4, and suddenly find yourself fulfilling claim for nothing? Additionally, the PotS version is a 4 cost ally that doesn't have Vengeful (meaning both you cannot repeat his effect and you cannot attack with him as well). I'm not saying this version is strictly better (although as it happens I do prefer it), but it's certainly not a case of this version being dwarfed by the PotS version, both have their uses depending on your meta.

I like this Areo's ability more, but my main issue is that he got stuck with the ally trait again. There's a lot of trait-hate going around these days...not a big fan. Yesterday someone gave my conclave the refugee trait and discarded him and my actual refugee. It hurt mi corazon.

I don't know the books, so the ally trait probably makes sense. It's just frustrating.

He would be a 6-star card, if not for the "participated" part of his text, but even still, being vengeful is huge with him, he can participate in two challenges. I'll discard without hesitation 5 cards from my deck to kill a mean ugly monster. Milling is never a tier-1 threat, you can still win without having even one single card in your deck.

He would be a 6-star card, if not for the "participated" part of his text, but even still, being vengeful is huge with him, he can participate in two challenges. I'll discard without hesitation 5 cards from my deck to kill a mean ugly monster. Milling is never a tier-1 threat, you can still win without having even one single card in your deck.

While this is true in theory, it is incredibly hard in practice.

It is also worth noting that you're giving away free information about what's in your deck to your opponent as well. (Though I suppose in practice the cards you reveal are no longer in your deck.)

Right, free info for killing any character. I think it is still a good price. The same problem as ever is that this guy is an ally.

Self-mill is one of those things that is as dangerous as mill without opponent triggering effects out of it... not dangerous at all. If my opponent would be doing it I'm not worried so why would I be if I do it myself for some great effect? Information isn't much as it can work against them if they start to play against a card they saw that you were running only 1x. Then again I love to play GJ Holy builds and Priest of the Drowned God (KotS) is a clear all-star there so I'm used to shrugging self-mill. Maybe it is just me.

If a you just lost a military challenge as the defender in which Areo Hotah (RotK) participated and Maege Mormont (AHM) was the only attacking character, how would their responses play out? If the First Player was Maege's controller, her response would trigger before Areo's. Would she then be moribund: destination hand and thus unable to be killed by Areo's ability?

Since moribund status cannot change, the answer is yes. Maege returns to hand

Note that each player takes turns triggering their responses. This means if the Stark player triggeres any other response before triggering Maege, such as playing No Quarter (TBC) to kill your Aero, then you would have the next opportunity for a response and could trigger Aero's ability to kill Maege. Then they wouldn't be able to trigger her ability since she is already moribund:dead.

This combos nicely with the princes plans, discard 5 cards from your deck to kill a character then put 4 of those cards into you hand from the discard pile.

No, it doesn't. The best part of PP is basically choosing what you get back. 4 random cards or a Bannermen, Much and More, Red Vengeance, and Sea. That's a sample of stuff I actually get back. Add in as RBD protection and Hotah is just a waste of the vent without extreme luck.

It still combos nicely, the cards discarded are in your deck for a reason.
"..but the mystery box can be anything. It can even be a boat."

Getting 4 extra cards into your hand without touching draw cap is really good, areo is just an engine to help make that happen. PP only lets you get the top 4 back, no choice as to which cards you get back. If you want choices then play with open market, the more cards you get into discard the more options you open up.

Nothing would stop me from triggering his response twice in the same challenge?

The one response per trigger rule would.