Torrhen's Square

This chapter pack has very nice plots. Auto Include in most military based decks

This is very far away from an auto-include. It has a very specific deck it goes into (Greyjoy aggro that wants to use city plots and To be a Kraken) but that's about it.

This is very far away from an auto-include. It has a very specific deck it goes into (Greyjoy aggro that wants to use city plots and To be a Kraken) but that's about it.

First of all I wrote "in most". Secondly, "very far away", really? Military Battle and claim rise during MIL with stats (3-4-1) is not so bad. Ok; let's say "in some MIL based decks" (I compared it to some 2-claim plots and it might be not so fabulous)

Stark Aggro gets much more out of the other 2 "if you don't have a city plot" city plots, greyjoy loves at the gates for Wendamyr, and no other house cares about military battle.

What about City plots' based Lanni Clansmen? Maybe it will be useful there? Or maybe in some Targ Dothraki?

and no other house cares about military battle.

Dothraki?

Dothraki?

The actual trait 'military battle' does nothing special for Dothraki. I think that's what Shadow meant.

I don't see why cannot somebody use a Dothraki deck based on Military Battle plots, like: After the Mummer's Ford, Battle of Oxcross, Focused Offence (even if I personally try not to use this card), Siege of Riverrun, even Grand Melee maybe... and this one - Torrhen's Square.

Assault on King's Landing is controversial because we can achieve the same/ similar effect from Bitter Crone.

You can always use At the Point of Blade or Kill for your king in this deck for example... Edited after post below

About Torrhen's Square - after second thought I give it 3,5 stars because of the limitation "If you have no other City plots..." With this it's not so versatile.

@Angarde: You absolutely could build such a deck. The question is, why would you build that deck rather than a Dothraki deck with good plots? You attempt to answer that question by bringing up point of a blade and kill for your king, I will however point out that point of a blade is horrible for Dothraki since their entire group tends to have a military and power icon. I'll also point out that they have good targetted kill already in incinerate and die by the sword so kill for your king is less powerful, especially since you have to use subpar plots to do it.

I personally don't think Kill for Your King! (TWot5K) is horrible for Dothraki. In some ways its better than Die by the Sword (LoW) since its not contingent on the challenge phase.

There are three separate issues with using this plot. First, Negotiations at the Great Sept (TPoL) is an exceptional plot for a Dothraki deck. Second, if you're going the War Crest route as well, Kill interferes with Pike Phalanx (QoD). Lastly is the hypothetical Power Struggle City plot which might have better synergy with Targ in general.

Is this solely based for the plot itself's interaction or does it effect future plots as well by +1 during military challenges? I ask solely because i dont think it does but an discussion at my local store was made with the idea that it might be.

Much like all other cards in the game, if they are not revealed or in play, they do not interact or effect the game state unless their text says otherwise. As such, this raised claim only happens while this plot is revealed. When it is in your used pile, the text is no longer active. If they think it is, ask them if they also think Threat from the North (PotS) is active after a new plot is revealed and it is in the used pile.

The concern was because this one stated that it was while it was in your used pile that it effects your revealed, Threat isn't so great a comparison because it in no way specifically references while its in a used pile. Thanks for the reply though it did help ameliorate some concerns.

Specifically i say this because in 2.3 of the FAQ it discusses when a plot card is "in the used pile". An until the next following round, the card in question "Torrhen's square" Would not be, as while it is your active plot, it is not considered to be part of your used pile at all. But later becomes so, an then would take effect as it entered that plot state (an would still need to qualify as your sole City plot present in that game state). This effect would then also have a bearing on the other recent additions to city plots that seemed to hinge on not having others in your used pile at all such as: Kings Landing Coup, an also under these guidelines even Negotiations of the Great Sept would still work because it would check, an then trigger as you've no other (the requirement) city plots in your used. The cards themselves seem to be self-referencing them however which means for it to also work they'd have to be "inside" the used pile for there to be no "others" aside from themselves.

I feel like Negotiations however shouldve been a "when revealed" but didn't get it an instead got a passive constant that applies once an then perhaps moves onward after.

First of all, Negotiations is "when revealed", so its effect can only be triggered again through an effect that specifically states you may trigger a plot from your used pile (City of Spiders (TftRK)/Archmaester Marwyn (MotA)).

Regarding Torrhen's Square, as slothgodfather said, its text is not active by any means unless it is revealed. When it is in a revealed state it checks constantly for other City plots in your used pile, and is only active if there are no "other" city plots there. For now, though, the text could just as well have been "no city plots", as there is no way to get the constant effect from a plot in your used pile with the current card pool.

The restriction "no other City plots in your used pile" does not translate to "This plot is active only when it is in your used pile and there are no other City plots in your used pile"... When you reveal this plot, it checks for other City plots you may have used before it. If there are none, then it raises your claim during MIL challenges.

Cards are only active when they are in play and revealed unless their card text says otherwise. So The Red Viper (PotS) is not immune to events while he is in your dead pile, but Theon Greyjoy (WLL) has an ability that specifically says you can use it while he is in the dead pile.

No city plot says that it can be used while it is in your used pile. The "no City plot" or "no other City plot" restrictions are play restrictions that are checked when it is revealed or when you attempt to re-trigger it through another card effect like City of Spiders.

In the instance you have Negotiations at the Great Sept (TPoL) as your only City plot in your used pile, you can use CoS to copy the "when revealed" effect - because it's restriction is that you have "no other City plots in your used pile".

However, in the instance you have Manning the City Walls (CD) as your only City plot in your used pile, CoS cannot be used to copy that "when revealed" effect - because it's restriction is that have "no City plots in your used pile", and there is one. Manning the City Walls.

Thanks Sloth - though Negotiations is not a "When revealed" effect North. It's more of a triggered effect that checks in the instance of plot step, that is or its slightly misworded and should have the "When revealed" tacked on to be more clear and to conform with they're FAQ.

The real life version of the card is a "When Revealed" effect - only the version that got sent out and uploaded to the internet is missing it, for some reason.

Ergh, thats frustrating - the one i have is lacking the "When revealed" text to it.

Ergh, thats frustrating - the one i have is lacking the "When revealed" text to it.

Yea that would be frustrating. All the printed one's I've seen have the "When Revealed" text. The image on this site is incorrect but the text in the description is accurate.

can be copied by City of Spiders (TftRK) ???

Nope. Torrhen's Square doesn't have a "When Revealed" effect.