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The Vaith

Submitted Darksbane , Nov 08 2011 06:05 PM | Last updated Nov 08 2011 06:05 PM

The Vaith Type: Location House: Martell Cost:2 Game Text: *Dorne.* Response: After a player declares a challenge against you, kneel 1 influence to choose 1 character controlled by that player. That character loses an icon of your choice until the end of the phase. Number: 35 Set: TGM Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Franz Miklis
Recent Decks:	Brotherhood Martell Beginner Deck Martell Iso - First place GTA Regional Summer of Dorne Martell Lose-to-Win/Icon Control Dayne Based Martell

14 Comments

berto
Nov 08 2011 08:18 PM

Finally we got it. It's far away from The Broken Arm but still for 2 gold we have repeatable icon removal. Paying one influence is not so big deal in Martell and we can use this ability so many time we want. Unfortunately we can't stop first challenge but our opponent seeing thiscard will be forced to do challanges starting from the most important one. Having
Burning on the Sand (RotO) and Red Vengeance (PotS) we can stop easily this one and remove icons for two others. Finally we have very good icon removal ability.

Shenanigans
Nov 08 2011 10:36 PM

Finally?

Alecak
Nov 09 2011 05:49 AM

My Martel deck has 6 ways to remove icons but none of them are repeatable. this is a very useful card and i look forward to it.

berto
Nov 09 2011 09:30 AM

Yes finally. We have some icon removal stuff but it's not repeatable. And thiscard with enough resources can remove icons from many character depending on our needs. It does not matter that first challange will go through, thought. They have to be very carefull which challange they should do as first because it might be the only one. That's amazing support for Martell control deck as can be splashed in every martell build with influence.

Shenanigans
Nov 09 2011 09:31 PM

I won't dispute how great this card is; it's an easy 4 or 5 stars.

My issue is that I don't think Martell needed this. Part of what made Martell's icon removal bearable was that it wasn't easily repeatable. Orphan of the Greenblood is cheap and effective, and The Viper's Rage is very broad. Now, with The Prince's Plans bringing back The Viper's Rage potentially, and this card hanging out and using all your spare influence, Martell icon removal might be a bit too ridiculous.

berto
Nov 09 2011 11:38 PM

I understand u completely, I'm happy because I play Martell and Targeryan so one of my favorite house got very strong support... This with Ghaston Grey (FtC), 6 challenge negaters and A Game of Cyvasse (ACoS).

manutd14
Jun 24 2012 07:09 PM

may I chose an icon of a participating character so that this particular icon doesn't count for the current challenge?

NuFenix
Jun 24 2012 08:08 PM

manutd14, on 24 June 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

may I chose an icon of a participating character so that this particular icon doesn't count for the current challenge?

Losing the icon has no impact of the eligibility of a character in a challenge once it has started. However, you could combine it with The Only Game that Matters (LotR) so that their Strength isn't counted if you removed the Intrigue icon.

manutd14
Jun 25 2012 06:18 AM

NuFenix, on 24 June 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Ok so, I can't "remove" a character from the first challenge by removing its icon. Another question, may I kneel additional influence to remove more icons? As I understand, the answer is No. Right?

slothgodfather
Jun 25 2012 12:33 PM

Correct. Like NuFenix said, it can be used to remove icons from a participating character for events or if you opponent has a way of including a character in a different challenge you could remove one of their icons to limit their options.

With the way it is worded, you are correct Manutd14. After any challenge is declared against you, you are allowed to trigger this response once (for each challenge).

Kennit
Nov 19 2012 10:43 AM

Let me recap the rules (it´s from here - I hope it´s correct):

Quote

1. Framework Action (~ Step 1: Declare Attackers)

a. FE: Active Player declares challenge type and opponent

1. Framework event initiates.

2. Save/cancel responses to framework event.

3. Framework event resolves

b. FE: Active player kneels attacking characters

1. Framework event initiates.

2. Save/cancel responses to framework event.

3. Framework event resolves

4. Passive abilities (now triggered) are resolved. Follow steps

5. Responses

6. End of Action. Moribund cards leave play.

Player Actions

When is the first possibility to trigger The Vaith?
Is it
- Framework Action (a-2)
- Framework Action (b-2)
- Framework Action (b-5)
- Player Action

I guess it´s b-5, so you can only remove an icon of a character who is already participating in the challenge and counts it's strength (as said above) but I´m not sure because the card text says "Response: After a player declares a challenge against you" which is before (b ).

Laxen
Nov 19 2012 03:18 PM

I would say b-5 too since it is a response, not a save/cancel - but what makes you think you're only able to select a participating character? That would be pretty bad since a character still counts its strength in the challenge even though it's lacking the correct icons

slothgodfather
Nov 19 2012 05:15 PM

It is definately b5. This is the same time a player would get to use Euron Crow's Eye (TGM) if they were getting attacked. The Vaith also does not say that you have to chose a participating character, but you could if you had intended to use something like Maester Myles (AHM) or The Windblown (AHM). Also note that regardless of the # of influence you have, this can only be triggered once per challenge.

Kennit
Nov 19 2012 05:50 PM

Quote

but what makes you think you're only able to select a participating character?

Quote

The Vaith also does not say that you have to chose a participating character

...Ahhhh, I really missed that :unsure: