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The Vaith

Submitted Darksbane , Nov 08 2011 06:05 PM | Last updated Nov 08 2011 06:05 PM

The Vaith Type: Location House: Martell Cost:2 Game Text: *Dorne.* Response: After a player declares a challenge against you, kneel 1 influence to choose 1 character controlled by that player. That character loses an icon of your choice until the end of the phase. Number: 35 Set: TGM Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Franz Miklis
Recent Decks:	MartEllaria - Melee Deck Martell Ã©tÃ© Quest To The East Martell martel HoD - Scourge vol 2.0

19 Comments

berto

Nov 08 2011 08:18 PM

Finally we got it. It's far away from The Broken Arm but still for 2 gold we have repeatable icon removal. Paying one influence is not so big deal in Martell and we can use this ability so many time we want. Unfortunately we can't stop first challenge but our opponent seeing thiscard will be forced to do challanges starting from the most important one. Having
Burning on the Sand (RotO) and Red Vengeance (PotS) we can stop easily this one and remove icons for two others. Finally we have very good icon removal ability.

Shenanigans

Nov 08 2011 10:36 PM

Finally?

- SpiderMonkey likes this

Alecak

Nov 09 2011 05:49 AM

My Martel deck has 6 ways to remove icons but none of them are repeatable. this is a very useful card and i look forward to it.

berto

Nov 09 2011 09:30 AM

Yes finally. We have some icon removal stuff but it's not repeatable. And thiscard with enough resources can remove icons from many character depending on our needs. It does not matter that first challange will go through, thought. They have to be very carefull which challange they should do as first because it might be the only one. That's amazing support for Martell control deck as can be splashed in every martell build with influence.

Shenanigans

Nov 09 2011 09:31 PM

I won't dispute how great this card is; it's an easy 4 or 5 stars.

My issue is that I don't think Martell needed this. Part of what made Martell's icon removal bearable was that it wasn't easily repeatable. Orphan of the Greenblood is cheap and effective, and The Viper's Rage is very broad. Now, with The Prince's Plans bringing back The Viper's Rage potentially, and this card hanging out and using all your spare influence, Martell icon removal might be a bit too ridiculous.

berto

Nov 09 2011 11:38 PM

I understand u completely, I'm happy because I play Martell and Targeryan so one of my favorite house got very strong support... This with Ghaston Grey (FtC), 6 challenge negaters and A Game of Cyvasse (ACoS).

manutd14

Jun 24 2012 07:09 PM

may I chose an icon of a participating character so that this particular icon doesn't count for the current challenge?

NuFenix

Jun 24 2012 08:08 PM

may I chose an icon of a participating character so that this particular icon doesn't count for the current challenge?

Losing the icon has no impact of the eligibility of a character in a challenge once it has started. However, you could combine it with The Only Game that Matters (LotR) so that their Strength isn't counted if you removed the Intrigue icon.

manutd14

Jun 25 2012 06:18 AM

Losing the icon has no impact of the eligibility of a character in a challenge once it has started. However, you could combine it with The Only Game that Matters (LotR) so that their Strength isn't counted if you removed the Intrigue icon.

Ok so, I can't "remove" a character from the first challenge by removing its icon. Another question, may I kneel additional influence to remove more icons? As I understand, the answer is No. Right?

slothgodfather

Jun 25 2012 12:33 PM

Correct. Like NuFenix said, it can be used to remove icons from a participating character for events or if you opponent has a way of including a character in a different challenge you could remove one of their icons to limit their options.

With the way it is worded, you are correct Manutd14. After any challenge is declared against you, you are allowed to trigger this response once (for each challenge).

- manutd14 likes this

Kennit

Nov 19 2012 10:43 AM

Let me recap the rules (itÂ´s from here - I hope itÂ´s correct):

1. Framework Action (~ Step 1: Declare Attackers)

a. FE: Active Player declares challenge type and opponent
1. Framework event initiates.
2. Save/cancel responses to framework event.
3. Framework event resolves

b. FE: Active player kneels attacking characters
1. Framework event initiates.
2. Save/cancel responses to framework event.
3. Framework event resolves
4. Passive abilities (now triggered) are resolved. Follow steps
5. Responses
6. End of Action. Moribund cards leave play.

Player Actions

When is the first possibility to trigger The Vaith?
Is it
- Framework Action (a-2)
- Framework Action (b-2)
- Framework Action (b-5)
- Player Action

I guess itÂ´s b-5, so you can only remove an icon of a character who is already participating in the challenge and counts it's strength (as said above) but IÂ´m not sure because the card text says "Response: After a player declares a challenge against you" which is before (b ).

Laxen

Nov 19 2012 03:18 PM

I would say b-5 too since it is a response, not a save/cancel - but what makes you think you're only able to select a participating character? That would be pretty bad since a character still counts its strength in the challenge even though it's lacking the correct icons

- Kennit likes this

slothgodfather

Nov 19 2012 05:15 PM

It is definately b5. This is the same time a player would get to use Euron Crow's Eye (TGM) if they were getting attacked. The Vaith also does not say that you have to chose a participating character, but you could if you had intended to use something like Maester Myles (AHM) or The Windblown (AHM). Also note that regardless of the # of influence you have, this can only be triggered once per challenge.

- Kennit likes this

Kennit

Nov 19 2012 05:50 PM

but what makes you think you're only able to select a participating character?

The Vaith also does not say that you have to chose a participating character

...Ahhhh, I really missed that :unsure:

Thank you guys

dimithrone

Jan 14 2015 05:45 PM

What puzzles me is that, what happens when you remove from the attacker of a ,say mil challenge of strength 4, his icon. Is the challenge then considered to be with only str 4 and no icon and so I can block it with a str 5 and, for example, a power icon? Does the type of the challenge alter when the icon is removed? It would be useful to see the steps of a challenge with the vaith kicking in.

sWhiteboy

Jan 14 2015 05:59 PM

The challenge type is decided when the challenge is initiated. So, even if you remove the Mil attacker's Mil Icon, it is still a Mil challenge.

ktom

Jan 14 2015 06:38 PM

Once a character is participating in a challenge, it really doesn't matter what icons it has or doesn't have. The game really only looks at a character's icons when it is declared as an attacker or defender. It doesn't need the icon to count its STR, and the icon status of the current attackers has nothing to do with what icons potential defenders need to have.

The Vaith is not going to help you with the attackers or the challenge that it responds to. It's a "long term planning" card, not an "immediate defense" card. You use it to set up for future challenges. For example, if I attack you in MIL, you would look at my side of the board, see that I have only one character with an INT icon standing, and use The Vaith to take it away. No INT challenge for me this turn. Similarly, if I am first player and you are second, if I attack you in MIL, you would look at my side of the board and see that I have only one standing character with a MIL icon left. So you use The Vaith t take the MIL icon away from that character -- and I have nothing to defend with when it is your turn to declare a MIL challenge against me.

- dimithrone likes this

dimithrone

Jan 14 2015 07:35 PM

I didn t see it that way, well it makes sense!! Thanks for your time. I m still getting used to playing the martell-way.

slothgodfather

Jan 15 2015 05:40 PM

It can also matter for other cards as well, such as Game of Cyvasse, Hotah's Axe, Maester Myles, Poisoned Spear and Qhoyne.

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The Vaith

The Vaith

19 Comments

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