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Griff

Submitted Darksbane , Jan 11 2012 07:09 PM | Last updated Aug 04 2012 01:50 AM

Griff

Type: Character House: Targaryen
Cost: 3 Strength: 3 Icons: Military,Intrigue, Power
Game Text:
Errata
Knight. Lord.
House Targaryen only.

If Griff would be killed, instead attach him to your House Card as your only agenda with the text: "If you control fewer attachments than each opponent, unattach Griff and return him to play.
Response: After a [Targaryen] attachment you control is discarded from play, kneel 1 influence to return it to your hand."
Crest: Noble
Number: 57 Set: CD
Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Emile Denis

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66 Comments

Enrico

Jul 19 2012 10:41 AM

But there are no save effects for attachments, are they?
I mean... in case I neded a save effect, his text would never work (since it doesn't have the "save" or the "instead" word).

Ire

Jul 19 2012 11:10 AM

Indeed, it does not work. Probably an oversight since the card is filled with text and will be fixed in the next FAQ.

if we take a look at how a card has done this before, we have Ser Davos Seaworth (TBoBB) which does save the attachment for it to be able to be moved from moribund:discard state. Other solution is to errata "instead of" clause there for the attachment going into discard to go to your hand.

Enrico

Jul 19 2012 11:27 AM

Or maybe, it only works when the attachments go into the discard pile :wacko:

Ire

Jul 19 2012 11:38 AM

Well there is no action window there for the player to do a response so it cannot be that.

WWDrakey

Jul 20 2012 06:24 AM

For the original discussion, where the oversight in Griffs ability was noted, see here.

Zomboyd

Jul 20 2012 07:15 AM

obviously the card creates its own rules and until they clarify play as written

Grimwalker

Jul 20 2012 11:39 AM

So we're saying his attachment saving ability is broken right out of the box, or that he can't save an attachment if his own death is discarding said attachment?

slothgodfather

Jul 20 2012 02:36 PM

From a timing perspective, if his death is how an attachment was discarded, he would not move from the table to your agenda until the end of the framework window, which would mean it is beyond the time for responses.

Also saying that even as an agenda, his text is broken for "saving" an attachment.

Grimwalker

Jul 20 2012 03:14 PM

man, this and Castle Battlements (VD). 3.3 FAQ anybody?

WWDrakey

Jul 20 2012 04:52 PM

You forgot Before the Black Walls (VD)...

slothgodfather

Jul 20 2012 05:06 PM

What is broken about BtBW?

Staton

Jul 20 2012 05:24 PM

If you reveal a river plot that is triggering BtBW it only copies the when revealed. The when revealed is "Name a challenge." Everything else is a constant effect that is specific to BtBW.

- slothgodfather likes this

Grimwalker

Jul 20 2012 05:41 PM

Darn commas. Could be worse, though: "Edwardum occidere nolite, timere bonum est" versus "Edwardum occidere nolite timere, bonum est"

It's the difference between "Kill not the king, caution is good" and "Fear not to kill the king, all is well."

That Edward II was widely rumored to be gay (portrayed as an effeminate princeling in Braveheart) and they killed him by inserting a red-hot poker in a very uncomfortable place is left to the reader's imagination.

WWDrakey

Jul 20 2012 05:42 PM

Yep. The discussion from the Rules board is here.

Grimwalker

Aug 13 2012 01:39 AM

So Griff #1 is killed and becomes an agenda. Griff #2 is played later and dies. After that, the opponent plays enough attachments to trigger his return to play?

What happens? Does he instantly go to the Dead or Discard pile, or just stay stuck as the agenda with his Return to Play ability fizzling?

slothgodfather

Aug 13 2012 06:09 AM

Think about any other effect that is a put into play effect. If that character is already in the dead pile they don't get discarded,the effect simply cant trigger. This is no different. Once the 2nd one is in your dead pile, he will be your agenda forever.

Grimwalker

Aug 13 2012 10:56 AM

this was not a bad thing. By the end I had two Dragon Skulls, a Flame Kissed and three Harried by Dragons in rotation ;-)

Abyssx

Apr 11 2013 06:01 PM

agendas can not be effected by other cards, since they are not in play...

@cupcakewinterfell - What about Mance Rayder (RotO). He can blank out The North agenda.

Grimwalker

Apr 11 2013 06:25 PM

If a card effect overrides a standard rule, then go with the card effect. But unless specified, agendas are not in play and cannot be affected by normal card effects. House Card, though, is in play for what it's worth. It can be hit by "a card you control" effects and Neutral House can be blanked by Meera Reed.

Mort

May 23 2013 12:37 AM

If u are running an agenda, and Griff die, what happen?
1) He go to dead pile
2) He get attached as an agenda (that can't use his text/ability), but u can still play one more copy of him, cos he isn't in dead pile.

Prophit618

May 23 2013 04:25 AM

He fails to meet the qualifications of being your only agenda and thus just carries on dying. So #1.

Persiatic

Jun 27 2013 10:24 PM

have I understood this correct?

If Griff dies he becomes my agenda and then if I control less attachments than my opponent he comes into play? So basically as long as I have fewer attachments than my opponent he can never be killed?