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Dubious Loyalties

Submitted Darksbane , Aug 19 2010 01:34 AM | Last updated Feb 25 2011 05:45 PM

Dubious Loyalties

Type: Attachment House: Stark
Cost:1
Game Text:
Condition. House Bolton.
Attached character gains the House Bolton trait.
Response: After you win a challenge in which attached character participated take control of attached character if it is not under your control.
Flavor Text: "He might have been the first knight in the realm to swear fealty to all six kings." - Jaime Lannister
Number: 2 Set: IG
Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Marc Scheff

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24 Comments

berto

Oct 17 2011 11:22 AM

Taking control of opponent characters is one of the strongest abilities. It's much better than kill or discardas we get +1 and our opponent -1. So we have differences two. Due to that this is so rare in AGOT to have such posibility. Now house Stark more precisesly bolton got such posibility. Only for 1 gold we can take control of attached character if he participates in a challenge which we win. Due to this threat our opponent will sometimes keep key character out of the challange to avoid this risk.

Gildor

Sep 20 2012 01:32 PM

what happens if the attachment is discarded some time after responce is trigerred?

Kennit

Sep 21 2012 12:49 PM

Found that in the FAQ:

(3.26) Duration of Control Change
Unless otherwise stated (for example, with a specified duration), the change of control is permanent until the card that switched sides leaves play or control of the card switches again via a card effect.
Note that attachments that grant control effects end when the attachment granting control leaves play.

Gildor

Sep 25 2012 08:13 AM

so does this attachment grand control by itself (control changes then it is destroyed)?

Staton

Sep 25 2012 01:53 PM

I don't think that FAQ entry is applicable here. The FAQ entry is referring to a passive attachment ability that grants control changes. This attachment creates a lasting control effect through its responses that never ends. So, imo, the attachment being removed does nothing to change control of the character.

agktmte

Sep 25 2012 02:17 PM

I don't know about that Staton, The control is being granted by an attachment effect, so I would think that the FAQ does apply in this situation. Assuming that quote is accurate, it does not say that it is a passive attachment effect only.

Staton

Sep 25 2012 02:54 PM

Well, the attachment effect isn't granting control, its creating a lasting effect that is granting control. So if you remove the attachment, the lasting effect is still around.

Kidnut

Sep 25 2012 03:04 PM

I am agreeing with Staton on this one

wildefox

Sep 25 2012 03:13 PM

The attachment causes the character to change control, the attachment is not what is responsible for "controlling the character". If you remove it, nothing happens.

slothgodfather

Sep 25 2012 05:39 PM

I would also have to agree. The FAQ is for attachments that get placed onto a character that immediately grant control. If that attachment is removed the character goes back to it's last controller. This is a triggered effect that creates a lasting effect. It's actually very similar to Seductive Promise (Core). The card doesn't have to still be in play after the control changes to retain control.

- brunopontes likes this

agktmte

Sep 25 2012 08:02 PM

Interesting. Seems pretty powerful.

Vincu

Sep 26 2012 11:07 AM

Just put this card on your own Reek (MotM). Put an Imposter! (MotM) on Reek, and make sure you have a Kingdom of Shadows (KotS) in play, and ta-daaa-- enter the 6-strength character who can steal someone from your opponent, and immediately he gets back to you, to be able to steal another one in the next turn.

Vincu

Sep 26 2012 11:09 AM

Instead of the Kingdom of shadows you can use the new influence providing kingdoms, they are all-house too 8))

Kennit

Sep 26 2012 05:21 PM

so does this attachment grand control by itself (control changes then it is destroyed)?

ktom about the question in the FFG forum (link):

It is also important to realize here that it is not the attachment that is granting the control effect. It is the triggered effect (which creates the lasting effect). It doesn't matter what happens to the card that the lasting effect comes from once the lasting effect is created.

The last part of that FAQ entry is for attachments that say "take control of attached character" as their own, continuous attachment text.

ShadowcatX2000

Sep 26 2012 07:43 PM

So many good tricks for Stark Maesters now.

theCrow

Sep 26 2012 08:14 PM

the trick with Pale Steel Link (FtC) is actually available for any-House Maesters

edit: if you have a maester with Tin Link (CbtC), Bronze Link (FtC) and Pale Steel Link (FtC), can you kneel to discard your Dubious Loyalties, then return it with Bronze Link and attach with Pale Steel Link or will moribound rule stop you from doing so?

kizerman86

Apr 18 2013 02:35 AM

Almost a year later, I am interested in the answer to theCrow's question. Because that is one janky, awesome combo if it works.

OKTarg

Apr 18 2013 05:19 AM

The moribund stops you from doing it. Everything stays on the board during the response window.

However, if you already had one in your discard pile, you can get it back with the Bronze and then Pale Steel it right into play.

Track11

Aug 21 2013 11:38 PM

What would happen if you were to win an intrigue challenge when a character you own has been Enslaved (THoBaW), and has your Dubious Loyalties (IG) attached as well? Could you respond and take control back, and create a lasting effect with Dubious Loyalties that overrides Enslaved? Or would the character bounce back to Enslaved's owner after you respond?

And if this bounce occurs, could you continually respond and have then character bounce 15 times (thinking of In Ramsay's Name (ASoSilence) here)? Where would the character end up?

JCWamma

Aug 22 2013 12:01 AM

The first scenario happens - you create a lasting effect that overrides Enslaved, and you take control of the character again.

Track11

Aug 22 2013 12:15 AM

That's what I thought, but not what I hoped

Rickon

Oct 04 2013 07:11 AM

Whom does "you" actually refer to ? What happens if I have Dubious Loyalties on a character in my play area and I lose a challenge in which he was involved ? What happens in a 2vs2 game if my friend wins a challenge against an oponnent in which he had a character that had Dubious loyalties on him ?
I am confused beacuse of the Core rules and because of a Bolton card that has Dominance:, refers to "you" and than says implicitly in parenthesis (any player can trigger this effect).
Thanks !

NorthMaester

Oct 04 2013 09:52 AM

"You" is the controller of the card. So if you played it on an opponent's character, you still control the attachment. You can't take control over him if you already control him, so nothing happens. You is in all cases only _you_, so if your teammate wins against him, it doesn't do anything.

Steelshanks Walton has a triggered ability that can be triggered by any player, and then the player who triggers it becomes "you".

- parralex0889 likes this

parralex0889

Jul 03 2014 07:48 PM

Just put this card on your own Reek (MotM). Put an Imposter! (MotM) on Reek, and make sure you have a Kingdom of Shadows (KotS) in play, and ta-daaa-- enter the 6-strength character who can steal someone from your opponent, and immediately he gets back to you, to be able to steal another one in the next turn.

How does this work?

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Dubious Loyalties

Dubious Loyalties

24 Comments

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