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They Shall Not Cross
Submitted
Darksbane
, Aug 17 2010 04:41 AM | Last updated Mar 01 2011 06:58 PM
They Shall Not CrossType: Event House: Stark Cost: Game Text: House Stark only. Response: Save a location from being discarded. Then, attach They Shall Not Cross to a House Stark character (counts as a Boon attachment with the text "Attached character gets +2 STR.") Number: 34 Set: LoW Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Rafal Hrynkiewicz |
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7 Comments
Hi, guys
I have the game for a little more than a month now and here is my first noob question in the forum:
Can I use this with Narrow Sea and use the -2 reduction from Narrow Sea at the same time?
Actually you can.
Discarding Narrow Sea is the cost to gain the effect reduce the next character you play by 2. Narrow Sea no enters moribund and you would be able to play They Shall Not Cross to save it from being discarded. Narrow Sea's destination has changed and remains in play however it is still considered to have been discarded, So you would still get the effect.
Excerpt from the FAQ:
That's not how the timing structure works. The card is not moribund until after the saves/cancels window. Saving the card prevents it from becoming moribund (so you did not pay the cost).
Please read the above 'What is "Moribund"?' excerpt taken from the FAQ.
Moribund occurs after a card is forced to leave play for the duration of the action window.
The action window timing is:
1: Action is Initiated (Narrow Sea is discarded - Narrow Sea enters Moribund)
2: Save/Cancel Responses (They Shall Not Pass is played to save Narrow Sea from being discarded)
Narrow Sea has successfully been discarded and saved (provided no other player cancels it). In 'what is moribund?' it states a moribund card is still considered to have been killed/discarded etc. And since discarding Narrow Sea is the cost, and cost is still considered to have been paid, you still get the effect.
Smiffsta, unfortunately you're not quite right.
Here's what happens
1. Costs are payed (Narrow Sea is Discarded, Enters Moribund. Note that there is NO save/cancel opportunity for costs)
2. Opportunity for Save/Cancels for the EFFECT of Narrow Sea
3. Effect Resolves (-2 Reduction)
While a normal "Save/cancel" happens in step 2 (Valar Initiates Save/Cancel opportunity, Valar resolves), which is *before* something enters moribund. Moribund is a state from which there is no returning unless a card specifically changes the moribund destination (using the word instead). It can be helpful to think of saves as ways to "dodge" an effect rather than resurrect a card that suffered from an effect.
In addition, as I've stated above, there is no save/cancel opportunity for paying costs. If you *could* save/cancel a cost, the effect wouldn't resolve anyway because the cost hasn't been paid. Admittedly, because there's been some pretty inconsistent templating on costs listing/not listing "cannot be saved", this often causes considerable confusion.
Aaah, now that makes sense. I think I over thought it too much and completely missed anything regarding paying a cost. Kept reading over moribund and looking at the timing structure but you are right, a save would prevent it from being killed/discarded and so you wouldn't get the effect. No idea how i overlooked that I actually feel quite embarrassed lol. Sorry!