Knight of Flowers

So a timing question came up today with this guys and valar. By thought was the timing would be thus: Valar is revealed, initiative is decided etc. then valar triggers, all characters in play are killed, during the save/cancel window a player brings Knight of Flowers out of shadows and saves a unique from being killed, then all characters not saved become moribund:dead pile which does not include knight of flowers because he was not on the board when valar initially trigger. My compatriot disagreed. What's the ruling on this?

As Described in rules about Shadows 

"While a card is in the shadows"

Cards that are in the shadows are not considered to be "in play," nor are they considered to be "in hand," They are considered to be "in shadows"

Cards remain facedown while they are in shadows. A player can look at any card he or she controls , at any time, while it is in shadows. Players cannot look at an opponent's cards that are in shadows.

Not really the question....

My friend disagreed that he would be killed by valar because of some weird timing thing with valar which he couldn't pinpoint, we both know that cards in shadows are not hit by valar as they are not in play.

I believe that the KoF would not be killed for valor because he came out after valor's effect had already been initiated. 

Also I have a question. Do you have to discard AND pay his 2 gold or do you just have to discard a card from your hand at random?

Im sorry I didn't help you the first time around. I looked around a bit and found the "Framework action"

1.Plot Phase begins, bring cards out of shadows -> 2.Player Actions -> 3.Choose and reveal plot cards, Initiative is counted, High initiative appoints first player, "When revealed" plot effects resolve (starting with first player) -> 4.Players Select Titles ( if applicable) -> 5.Player Actions -> 6.Plot Phase ends

I did find a statement in the chapter pack review that did state this -> "But you might not want to save from Valar because of FAQ 3.41. Basically saves are like a dodge before the kill effect hits, so Knight of Flowers comes out of shadows, the saved character dodges Valar, then Valar kills KoF" scantrell24

http://www.cardgamed...ck-review-r1255

I believe that the KoF would not be killed for valor because he came out after valor's effect had already been initiated. 

Also I have a question. Do you have to discard AND pay his 2 gold or do you just have to discard a card from your hand at random?

I think you just pay the 2 to get the card into the shadows, and when you want to save a unique character all you have to do is discard a card at random,or just pay the rest of his cost to get him into the board if you prefer otherwise. I could be wrong but thats what the card does state?

There are two ways to bring KoF out of Shadows:

1) At the normal time for bringing cards out of Shadows, pay the "non-s" part of his cots (2 gold) and bring him out of Shadows the way you would any other Shadow card.

2) Trigger his ability. The only cost you need to pay when you do this is the cost of the ability (discard a card at random). Since it doesn't tell you to pay the rest of his printed cost, you don't.

If you use #2 to bring him out of Shadows, he is likely to be subject to the following from the FAQ:

(FAQ 3.41) Cards entering play between initiation and resolution of an effect

This means that if you use KoF to save a unique character from Valar, Valar is going to kill him instead (unless you have an additional way to save KoF before Valar resolves). Martell players will recognize this interaction as the same reason it is a bad idea to discard Darkstar into play with Maester of the Sun to save a character from Valar.

I'd say they are both part of the cost.

if u want to save a char with him the only way you can do is-bring kof out of shadows by (and only by) discarding a card and saving....
if u just want him on the board then u can pay the cost at the start of any phase (normal shadow window)....
also u can not put him out of shadows by discarding a card when u dont have anything to save

I need clarification for a more complex scenario:

Let's say I have a copy of this KoF in shadows. In play, I have a copy of KoF and another unique character on the field, when my opponent reveals Valar.

1) Can I discard a card and bring KoF out of shadows to save the copy in play and attaching immediately as a duplicate (hence unaffected by Valar)? I believe I can because the rules for Shadows Cards seems to corroborates this interpretation);

2) Can I discard a card and bring KoF out of shadows to save my other unique character, then attach it to my other (moribund) KoF as it enters play? Would this allow me to discard this duplicate to save my moribund KoF before Valar resolves? 

Shadow Cards Rules state:

"Unique cards and Shadows

no ones ever answered this... i hate liking a game years after its no longer popular.

Yep, it's tough. But I believe I managed to solve this by myself by visiting FFG Foruns.

no ones ever answered this... i hate liking a game years after its no longer popular.

DO you still play? I am about 7 shy of having a complete collection, so i'm almost able to create about 16 different decks for my friends to play.

Yep. I still play with some few friends.

I have almost a full set of the entire collection. It's a hell of a game!

DO you still play? I am about 7 shy of having a complete collection, so i'm almost able to create about 16 different decks for my friends to play.