Brok Ironfist

I rarely play him. If you lose a hero, chances are that Brok ain't gonna help you either.

One of the worst cards. At best a consolation prize for losing a hero.

worst card in the game that I've seen so far. So expensive for just a couple of stats and no abilities that help you once in game. If you are playing him using his response then it won't really change the fact that you are pretty much doomed. Can be a consolation only in multiplayer where you have more support from other players. Could actually be a good card in multiplayer if it wasn't restricted to a Dwarf hero you control but rather a Dwarf hero in general.

His ability is useless; Gloin (Core) or Vilya (SaF) can easily get him into play, however. Actually quite good in a stealth deck running two heroes (with
Resourceful (TWitW) and Timely Aid (TRG)).

Worst card in core. More expensive than gandalf,same defense and will of Faramir who only needs four resources, and the same attack points as a Silverlode archer who only costs three. Plus you only get one of him.

He is only good if got deck build on Elrond and can play cards like that for free, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Worst card in core. More expensive than gandalf,same defense and will of Faramir who only needs four resources, and the same attack points as a Silverlode archer who only costs three. Plus you only get one of him.

This makes me chuckle a bit (paraphrasing):

"This card is so damn bad; worst thing that ever happened"

"Why do I only get 1 of him. I want more Brok Ironfist"

Make up your mind

We actually packed a few of them in against Shadow and Flame. We were using all dwarf decks. We knew heroes would die several times and he could come in to save the day. We passed on our second try and didn't even lose a hero thanks to Dori and Dwalin.

I actually always tuck one copy of Brok into my Dwarf decks.

 

Am I going to play him for 6 resources? Meh, probably not. But he's a nice (and fun/dramatic) insurance policy to have in hand in case things go bad. And if I get him in hand when I don't think I'll need him then I'll toss him for an effect (as I always build at least one toss effects into my decks). 

 

And it really should be noted that he's a great exhaust for A Very Good Tale. 

Sword-thain just made him obsolete!

Sword-thain just made him obsolete!

 

How so?

 

Brok’s stats are terrible for a cost of 6. He doesn’t collect resources and doesn’t count as a Hero. That’s not his point—he’s insurance. A consolation prize in case of Hero-loss that gives you a (critically, ready) Dwarf body on the field at the moment when your tempo has just taken the biggest hit.

 

He can defend if you need it, he can swing for 2 (or 3 with Dain) if necessary, you can drop him for A Very Good Tale (to further cushion your Hero-loss) and even if you don’t need any of those things he’s a Dwarf-traited character on the board to replace the one you just lost (very important if your running Ally Bifur, Thorin, Erebor Battle Master, Ori, etc).

 

And, this is the important part—he’s free.

 

Sword-Thain is a very different beast. Yes, it can be used to “replace” a hero. But…you’re replacing it with an ally that you already paid for or otherwise got into play. What’s more, attaching Sword-Thain will be another 4 resources on top of the cost of the ally. That’s not to say that Sword-Thain doesn’t have its benefits—that Ally is now a full-fledged Hero able to collect resources and benefit from Hero-restricted cards. But you haven’t gained a body on the board so much as you’ve gained an economy bump and possible combo-piece.

 

Personally I’m not a big fan of Sword-Thain but even if I thought the card had more worth comparing it with Brok is kind of Apples and Oranges. 

How so?

You put Sword-thain on Gimli ally instead. Enjoy and win!

Do that, and still include Brok, because they are just different.  8 resources to have a hero Gimli vs 0 resources to put Brok into play after losing a hero - such as Gimil

Do that, and still include Brok, because they are just different.  8 resources to have a hero Gimli vs 0 resources to put Brok into play after losing a hero - such as Gimil

 

^ This. 

 

There are reasons to run Sword-Thain. But none of them are the same reasons you run Brok. 

 

EDIT:

 

Also, I didn't think to mention it earlier but I really like his art. It feels very classic Tolkeen. 

You can use Sword-thain on Gimli without loosing a hero, Brok needs multiple conditions to be played (if you don't have him in hand when a hero dies, you're screwed, and how often does a dwarf hero leaves play?), and he becomes, 99 % of the time, a dead card in your hands. Seriously, he's one of the worse cards in the game.

Hero from ally Gimli has better stats and comes with an amazing ready advantage action.

He's definitely NOT one of the worst cards in the game, and from the limited card pool that you'd typically have access too when he was released, he's good - though all that is personal perspective and perceptions.  Regardless, the thing is making gimli a Hero vs using this guy to "replace" is not comparing like things since they are used for completely different reasons.  

 

That said, Sword-thain is going to be more useful from a deck that generates a lot of resources (like leadership) and putting it onto your friends unique ally to help with their resource generation.  

You can use Sword-thain on Gimli without loosing a hero, Brok needs multiple conditions to be played (if you don't have him in hand when a hero dies, you're screwed, and how often does a dwarf hero leaves play?), and he becomes, 99 % of the time, a dead card in your hands. Seriously, he's one of the worse cards in the game.

Hero from ally Gimli has better stats and comes with an amazing ready advantage action.

 

Ally Gimli with Sword-Thain absolutely has better stats and more action advantage on the board than Brok. He also collects a Leadership resource every turn and has a more flexible base of cards he can benefit from. But he cost 8 resources to get there.

 

Now we can argue about whether we think those 8 resources are worth it or not but that really isn’t the point. We’re not talking about the relative merits of Sword-Thain or if Ally Gimli is a good target for that attachment. We’re talking about Brok Ironfist.

 

Brok is all about softening the hit you take when you lose a Hero. He’s useful in all the ways I listed in my previous post (essentially 0-cost into play, 6-cost for A Very Good Tale, Dwarf traited, ready body immediately on the board). His whole point is to give you a little extra free help when the situation is at its most dire and you are at your most vulnerable.

 

And that has absolutely nothing to do with Sword-Thain—on Gimli or anyone else. The only similarities are that they both deal with Heroes but they do it in completely different ways. One is about bumping your Hero limit to 4 to enable Hero-specific combos and ramp up your economy. The other is about snatching you away from a death-spiral by hopefully maintaining 5 Dwarves on the board and being able to keep yourself from giving ground while you regroup. Nothing stops you playing ally Gimli (with or without Sword-Thain) while also running Brok as they are simply unrelated.

 

Like I said—Apples and Oranges. And hardly the worst card in the game. He not even in the top 10 worst cards in the Core Set. He's limited to Dwarf-heavy decks but we have a big enough cardpool now that who cares?

 

And as for your specific criticisms of Brok—I agree entirely. He needs very specific conditions to enter play and you will usually draw him when you simply don’t need him…which is why I said in my first post that I run him with a way to dump him for effect if I don’t think I’ll need him.

 

Bottom line—Brok is good insurance if you are running a Dwarf-trait heavy deck. If you never need him then your deck is probably doing well enough that the very occasional unneeded draw won’t hurt you and he can be a game-saver when you have him at the right time.  

Any ally that you put in play with Sneak Attack to attach Sword-thain on will cost 5 resources (the allies becomes a hero and doesn't have to go back to your hand at the end of the phase). So beorn becomes cheaper that what he is, and most good allies that cost 4 (Faramir lead, ally Legolas) only cost one ressource more.

Any ally that you put in play with Sneak Attack to attach Sword-thain on will cost 5 resources (the allies becomes a hero and doesn't have to go back to your hand at the end of the phase). So beorn becomes cheaper that what he is, and most good allies that cost 4 (Faramir lead, ally Legolas) only cost one ressource more.

 

Okay--I feel like we're kind of talking across eachother a little bit. This is 2 different issues. 

 

On the matter of Sword-Thain, that's actually a really interesting combo. I wouldn't use it for Beorn specifically (since I like him bouncing back) but I see what you mean. Was this confirmed by the devs to be a legal play? I agree the wording of Sneak Attack would seem to imply that it is but I also think that's unintentional and the use of "that" in Sneak Attack's wording leaves some ambiguity. If it is legal then Sword-Thain is an easy 2x in every Leadership deck running Sneak Attack for anything but Gandalf. 

 

Then we have Brok--a card I think is a solid bit of disaster insurance in a dwarf-trait reliant deck and you think is one of the worst cards in the game. And both of those opinions are fine. Personally, he's a 1x auto-include in most of my Dwarf decks because he's rarely, if ever, gotten in my way and has saved me a couple of times. 

 

But those two things--they have nothing to do with eachother. Sword-Thain can be bad or good or amazing at ramping/smoothing your economy. It can combo off Sneak Attack or not. Whatever--it's not relevant right now because whatever it's doing it's not the same thing as what Brok is doing (for better or worse--we can disagree on Brok's relative worth).

 

They're different and shouldn't be judged against eachother. That's the only point I'm trying to make. 

I understand! And yeah, Brok can become useful in some situations.

Cheers!

On the matter of Sword-Thain, that's actually a really interesting combo. I wouldn't use it for Beorn specifically (since I like him bouncing back) but I see what you mean. Was this confirmed by the devs to be a legal play?

 

On the Sword-thain discussion thread, this was confirmed to be legal. I know you already know this, JonofPDX, since it's your comment on that thread that I'm linking to. :-) But I'm posting it here for anyone who finds the Brok Ironfist discussion later on via a search, but hasn't looked at the Sword-thain discussion.

Looking at the stats, Brok Ironfist seems like insurance for Gloin getting killed (most probably because you got too greedy with mining resourcing using him )