A decent early-game destroyer with the potential to give the runner a nasty surprise on HQ/R&D access.

Weyland likes decent non-barrier ICE!

This is a bad card. It weakens R&D w/ its low trash cost and it's low strength means it wont trigger very often. It certainly isn't worth installing as anything more than a minor tax / annoyance. The only real benefit is if the runner who has not installed a sentry breaker because "weyland" hits this and gets their fracter trashed. However the more common scenario will be the runner hits this and breaks it with an AI breaker. 

This is a bad card. It weakens R&D w/ its low trash cost and it's low strength means it wont trigger very often. It certainly isn't worth installing as anything more than a minor tax / annoyance. The only real benefit is if the runner who has not installed a sentry breaker because "weyland" hits this and gets their fracter trashed. However the more common scenario will be the runner hits this and breaks it with an AI breaker. 

it doesn't really have a low trash cost considering the runner also has to encounter the ICE.  and of course it's great in a rush deck before the runner gets their sentry breaker out (i don't know why this was listed as a bad thing tbh), and no, of course it won't actually trash programs that often.  very few ICE actually fire more than once or at all, but one scenario that won't ever happen is the runner being able to use Datasucker or Parasite if they hit from HQ or R&D.  this isn't a meta-shaking card by any means, but to say it's a bad card is far from accurate

This is a bad card. It weakens R&D w/ its low trash cost and it's low strength means it wont trigger very often. It certainly isn't worth installing as anything more than a minor tax / annoyance. The only real benefit is if the runner who has not installed a sentry breaker because "weyland" hits this and gets their fracter trashed. However the more common scenario will be the runner hits this and breaks it with an AI breaker. 

I think you're underestimating it.

Lets say you have 3-of in a 49 card deck. There are much better cards in the game, that have a more tangible and consistent effect. The three card slots allocated to this card would be better allocated to stronger card(s). If your goal is to tax, there are better taxers. If your goal is program destruction, there are better program destructors. If your goal is to trap R&D, there are better traps. If your goal is ice density, there are much better ice. The card is a multi-effect but watered down to be only mildly effective at any of its potential roles.

Now, sure, I may be underestimating it. But as a runner player, I am generally not worried about encountering this card. And as a corp player I am not excited to draw this card nor am I particularly excited when the runner encounters it most of the time as it will have little impact. It's just too weak of an effect to matter much in the large majority of games. 

Your mileage may vary, of course.

and of course it's great in a rush deck before the runner gets their sentry breaker out (i don't know why this was listed as a bad thing tbh)

The only real benefit is if the runner who has not installed a sentry breaker because "weyland" hits this and gets their fracter trashed. However the more common scenario will be the runner hits this and breaks it with an AI breaker. 

I didn't say encountering it prior to a killer installed was a bad thing. Quite the opposite, I said that this outcome is the "only real benefit" of the card. 

But that outcome is not frequent enough or impactful enough to make up for the card's shortcomings, for me at least.

Lets break it down. Suppose 100 games are played with this card in a corp deck. Those games will most likely break down into one of the following scenarios:

• NO IMPACT: Sapper is never encountered during the game
• NO IMPACT: Sapper is encountered, no killer is installed, but no programs are installed to be trashed
• NO IMPACT: Sapper is encountered, no killer or applicable AI breaker is installed, a program is trashed but it is not impactful
• IMPACT: Sapper is encountered, no killer or applicable AI breaker is installed, a program is trashed and is impactful
• TAX: Sapper is encountered, no killer is installed, but Sapper is broken with an AI breaker
• TAX: Sapper is encountered, a killer is installed, Sapper is broken with the killer
• TAX?: Sapper is encountered, but for some reason doesn't trigger (instant speed Parasite + Datasucker, or some other atypical affect)

Only one scenario is impactful / optimal for the corporation, while a few are taxing but very mildly so. The question would be then, what percentage of those 100 games did the one optimal scenario occur? I would posit that the percentage would be low.

Basically, this card is just an annoyance, at best. IMO, just about any deck that included Sapper would become stronger by filling the card slots allocated to it with something more focused and reliable.

"Sapper is never encountered during the game"

- This applies to any ICE. Doesn't say anything about its actual power level.

"Sapper is encountered, no killer is installed, but no programs are installed to be trashed"

- That's your own fault. Or bad luck. Weyland has so many ETR ICE (plus Quandary/Enigma/Datapike), it's really not asking for too much to defend your servers properly. At least install very cheap gearchecks.

"Sapper is encountered, no killer or applicable AI breaker is installed, a program is trashed but it is not impactful"

- How is that not impactful? Even if the Runner has spare copies and/or recursion, it costs him time/money. It's a tempo hit.

The rest of your points are valid. So in the worst case, it's taxing. In the best case, it is a more or less severe tempo hit.

It's a solid ICE in rush decks. A destroyer with merely 3 rez cost is decent. The R&D/HQ encounter is ICEing on the cake.

The % of outcome in a game breakdown isn't about speaking to power level, it is speaking about probabilities and thus it is included as a possible outcome for the sake of accuracy. Because obviously, it is an outcome that will occur some percentage of the time and to not include it would be silly.

Its not a fault or "bad luck"...it is probability. As the ice is encountered if accessed from hand or deck, there will be times when the card is encountered that you the corp did not intend while the runner has no programs or no useful programs to trash. It is just one of several possible outcomes. The % of occurrence is probably very low, but it is still a possibility and is thus included.  

Not impactful program trashing: as a simple for instance, Paperclip is out and you trash it. Not very impactful. Slightly taxing, yes, but it's not going to slow down the runner much and in most scenarios isn't going to significantly change the game. Etc. Again, it is a scenario that may occur and thus is included. 

In the worst case it has no effect at all (which is true of all cards, but is still the actual worse case). In a more typical case it is mildly taxing. Its best case is the same best case as any form of program destruction.

So again, there are better taxers, better program destroyers, better ice, etc. And that's why I don't think it is worth card slots. I just don't think this is a good include. We can agree to disagree, of course. 

Although there is already an interesting discussion here, I think we are going deeper than we should. Sapper is a program destruction ice in green which is supposed to stay in green. While not that bad as an overall idea, I doubt it will see much play mainly due to card slots, and because it looses on a few points to other more taxing ice.

As stupid as it sounds, it might be best in an Off the Grid deck as an HQ trap to snipe that most important breaker. Archangel did it right, with high strength, trace routine and general card targeting, Sapper is a little too specific to fit 80% of any meta.

So again, there are better taxers, better program destroyers, better ice, etc. And that's why I don't think it is worth card slots. I just don't think this is a good include. We can agree to disagree, of course. 

I'm not aware of any decent destroyer that's comparable to Sapper. Cobra, maybe. Genuinely curious, can you give examples?

Cobra, Rototurret, and Ichi all come to mind as basically comparable, and in faction there's Negotiator or Lycan, neither of which are great but are competitive with Sapper...with each having different pros and cons. Assassin is pricier but much more effective. If you really want to force program destruction, Sagitarius is an option. If you don't mind or can mitigate a bad pub there's Grim, which can be very effective. If you don't mind forfeiting an agenda, Archer and Enforcer are much more potent. 

Ironically, the last time we had this much argumentation about a early game Weyland ice was Negotiator (if you check the thread the discussion goes on and on), with me not liking it and comparing it to other cards that at the time I thought to be better picks. Just to put things into context, if I had to play either this card or Negotiator, those were my only two choices, I would probably choose Negotiator...a card I'm on the record as not liking much. 

Cobra, Rototurret, and Ichi all come to mind as basically comparable, and in faction there's Negotiator or Lycan, neither of which are great but are competitive with Sapper...with each having different pros and cons. Assassin is pricier but much more effective. If you really want to force program destruction, Sagitarius is an option. If you don't mind or can mitigate a bad pub there's Grim, which can be very effective. If you don't mind forfeiting an agenda, Archer and Enforcer are much more potent. 

 

Ironically, the last time we had this much argumentation about a early game Weyland ice was Negotiator (if you check the thread the discussion goes on and on), with me not liking it and comparing it to other cards that at the time I thought to be better picks. Just to put things into context, if I had to play either this card or Negotiator, those were my only two choices, I would probably choose Negotiator...a card I'm on the record as not liking much. 

To put this in context, I was thinking along the lines of a Weyland rush/semi-midrange deck. Not glacier.

Ichi can be clicked through, is expensive and costs 2 influence each. Negotiator is hot garbage, because the Runner may simply pay for it - even without an installed killer or AI. Lycan is far too expensive, although it has the morph advantage. Assassin is WAY too expensive. Sagittarius, like Ichi, is (very) expensive and costs two influence each. Grim is expensive and the bad pub is a risk. Archer is definitely a good piece of ICE, though it requires time/preparation.

In my opinion, the only ones which are comparable are Cobra and Rototurret. While Rototurret is definitely good because of its ETR subroutine, Sapper has a better cost/strength ratio and is potentially more taxing. Plus, it fires from R&D/HQ access. Cobra does have a damage component, but again has a slightly inferior cost/strength ratio and does not fire from R&D/HQ access.

Rototurret: Mimic 2c, Ninja 2c, Mongoose 1c, "Cuj.0" 1 power counter, Golden 2c, MKUltra 3c

Cobra: Mimic 2c, Ninja 5c, Mongoose 1c, "Cuj.0" 1 power counter + 1c, Golden 2c, MKUltra 3c

Sapper: Mimic 1c, Ninja 5c, Mongoose 3c, "Cuj.0" 1 power counter + 2c, Golden 4c, MKUltra 3c

Clearly, only Mimic can break it pretty efficiently.

In conclusion, I would say that it depends on your individual deck and its ICE composition. Some decks may prefer Rototurret, some Sapper.

It's a viable option in those kind of Weyland rush/semi-midrange decks.

RE: Weyland Rush: I suppose.

But why bother with a Weyland rush strategy in the first place? The last time I remember that being even kind of competitive was Supermodernism variants a couple plus years ago. Do you have a particular current decklist in mind or is this just theorycraft?

RE: Weyland Rush: I suppose.

 

But why bother with a Weyland rush strategy in the first place? The last time I remember that being even kind of competitive was Supermodernism variants a couple plus years ago. Do you have a particular current decklist in mind or is this just theorycraft?

Nothing particular in mind. Just theorycraft.