Ser Kyle Condon

Had to do some research on internet to figure out who this guy is from the books...

Anyway, I think it's a great card.

Lord Roose Bolton left a strong force of Stout and Cerwyn men under the command of Ser Kyle and Ronnel Stout to strengthen the defense of the Trident against the Lannisters.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 49, Catelyn

Yeah that's what I found on "google" as well - I was just trying to avoid spoilers!

i really like this card for stark it stops stalwart 2 for 2 but stops his stalwart from stopping you drawing new cards

typo above sorry

Only time will tell if a stalwart deck is viable, though this and Harrenhall go a long way in that direction! (Still wish harrenhall was 1 gold cheaper...)

Yeah I agree on Harrenhall. I think we are still missing something in regards to Stalwart. It just needs that extra thing to bring it all together. Not sure what it is though.

Stalwart I think is just like Infamy, the cards themselves make the keywords. Unlike some of the other keywords, vigilant, vengeful, intimidate, ambush can all be useful even if the card is very vanilla otherwise. A 3 cost 3 str bicon with any of those keywords is better than a 3 cost 3 str bicon with infamy or stalwart. Not saying it would be played or is a great card, just saying it would be better. Stalwart needs more cards like this that trigger something when they leave play, a blanking effect(maybe limited to non uniques or something), or something like the wildling messenger from the CCG, after you win a challange in which they participate discard them from play to draw 2 cards. Just my thoughts, I also agree Infamy is pretty crappy, unless of course its on Beric or TRV!

I agree w/"Ser Duck". I really like using Needle (RoW) since a lot of the cool Stark defense abilities can be bypassed by a simple "stealth" attack (but to be honest I have only actually "used" it on a few occassions - most decks I am including it in are "drafts" that have yet to be playtested...), but aside from the fact that I only have 1 copy (damn FFG and their failure to reprint 3X yet!!!), it's not often you get to use that nifty "Stalwart" synergy. This guy will help a little.

I think with stalwart you could make a character lite deck in the future ....for example having 3 copies of 4 renown stalwart characters and a LOT of control could make a deck....you just need 1 char in setup and look for another with summoning and you are set for the rest of time......you could play reset after reset and gain power with something else.....of course it is not viable yet

The biggest block against stalwart is actually deck based discard which only gj has in quantity...though boy can they have it in quantity

not really stalwart works for both death and discard!!! I'm actually building a deck (with the cards not used by my friends...so resources are scarse xS) based on westeros bleeds, stalwart, and characters immune to effects (mine too)

Well I think he was referring to raiding stuff like Seaside Urchin (TTotH) and the like.

hahah of course....then yeah, that would be sort of the silver bullet to any combo deck that takes a couple of turns to work

Yep - yup! 2 of my meta's players have GJ deck-to-discard builds. Stalwart gets pretty screwed in that case... well, the classic stalwart characters do at least. Mr Condom will at least trigger a useful ability once in his lifetime

Make Stalwart return to hand, not top of deck. Boom, keyword is now fixed and as powerful as the other ones. Infamy is fine. Lannisters are a pretty strong house, they don't need a very strong keyword.

Sorry, I feel that my question has been answered many times before but I don´t find something appropriate.
If I loose him due to a military challenge I lost.
I first have to satisfy the claim so the char gets killed but remains "somehow in in play" (morribund).
Do I draw a card before OR after I put him on the draw pile?
I guess I draw a card first but why? Are keywords generally resolved after responses?

It is exactly the moribund state that creates this. When a card is going to leave play, such as after being chosen and killed for a MIL challenge claim, then they enter a moribund state defined by their destination. Stalwart characters are always moribund:top of deck instead of the typical moribund:dead pile. Cards stay on the table until all appropriate actions, such as passives and responses, have taken place. Then as the last step any moribund cards physically leave play. So he is killed and is moribund:top of deck. Then during responses you get to draw a card. At the end of the window, he is removed from play and put on top of the deck.

make sense?

Just to make sure I understand it correctly: if I have a duplicate attached to Ser Kyle and discard it as a response to save him, when the discarded duplicate becomes moribund would it get all of Kyle's text back? So the duplicate would allow me to draw a card and would still go to the top of my deck?

Not really. Only a character card can become moribund, and a duplicate is never a character card. It is always a dupe. Think more of removing a duplicate as like playing an event to save your character. You immediately discard the dupe to pay the cost of triggering the response. (If the response is cancelled, this cost is still paid.) When the dupe leaves play it never gains it's text back until it is already in the discard pile, which means it will not get the effects of stalwart nor will you get to trigger the response.

Only a character card can become moribund...

You sure? Didn't Griff have the problem before the errata that he couldn't return the attachments to hand because they were moribund:discard pile and his ability wasn't a replacement effect?

(This does not affect this ongoing discussion about duplicates however, just wanna make sure about the details.)

Not really. Only a character card can become moribund, and a duplicate is never a character card. It is always a dupe. Think more of removing a duplicate as like playing an event to save your character. You immediately discard the dupe to pay the cost of triggering the response. (If the response is cancelled, this cost is still paid.) When the dupe leaves play it never gains it's text back until it is already in the discard pile, which means it will not get the effects of stalwart nor will you get to trigger the response.

As far as I recall correctly any card leaving play goes through Moribund, see page 17 of the FAQ. It even applies to events.

Of course this doesn't affect the outcome Slothgodfather mentioned, since even in Moribund the duplicate is a duplicate, and thus blank of all text and names. It remains that way until it actually leaves play (Step 6).

@Laxen & WWDrakey - you are correct. I really should learn to not speak in any form of absolutes!

No. That is never a good idea.