Little and Less

Im confused how FFG can make a card like this...completely bonkers.

So as there is a Response window during the start of a phase, if done in the Challenge phase, it shuts down:
Red Vengeance (PotS)
The Maester's Path (GotC)
The Siege of Winterfell (LoW)
to name but a few!

Control got a lot more controlling!

On the other hand, aggro decks can use it to stop a lot of control effects, such as the aforementioned Red Vengeance, Burning on the Sand, Dragon Knight, Dragon Thief, the new Illyrio, saves of any and all varieties, etc. Gonna be fun to see a Stark murder deck with this card, the new agenda, and Bear Island.

It also seems like a great anti-maesters card to keep chains on the agenda, which is definitely something the game needs.

Who knows what the implications of this card for the meta will end up being, but for now, I'm tentatively a fan of it.

So as there is a Response window during the start of a phase, if done in the Challenge phase, it shuts down:
Red Vengeance (PotS)
The Maester's Path (GotC)
The Siege of Winterfell (LoW)
to name but a few!

Control got a lot more controlling!

I must be missing something, but I honestly didn't think there was a response window at the start of a phase. Where in the rules does it say that?

In the FAQ - every Framework Action window allows responses.

This card will be awesome as Burn repellent! Love it!

This breaks so much stuff... pure madness.

On the other hand, this could blow up spectacularly. Sauce for the goose....

Gotta ask though..."play" usually means "play from hand." In the core rules and elsewhere it's usually "trigger" or "use" responses. So I question whether as written this shuts down Response abilities that are already on the table.

My understanding is that Damon from FFG has already confirmed that it means no more responses can be used (triggered would probably be the better term instead of play, I see an errata coming to this one...), whether on cards in play or from shadows or from your hand.

The "additional responses" heavily suggests that it doesn't grandfather in responses that have already occurred.

Don't get me wrong, I love Damon and I'd like to take his word for it, but (to coin a phrase) words are wind. I was told months before the 3.3 FAQ that Sorrowful Man was supposed to work like it currently does, but as written it didn't. It still had to be errata'd.

I'm TO'ing this weekend, so I'm trying to get all my pedantic questions dealt with in advance. See FAQ section 4.4 where "played" clearly means from your hand. On the other hand, when describing player actions on page 15, it says "It is during these stages that players may play/trigger most card effects as well as play cards from their hands." So the implication there is that "play from your hand" is one specified instance of what the verb can mean.

Also, page 17, on Responses: After any passive abilities triggered as a result of the action or save/cancel response are resolved, players may now play normal responses in clockwise order."

Nobody imagines that to mean only in-hand effects. So, I think I'll stick with Damon's ruling, now that I've satisfied my own urge to not look like a n00b in front of guests from out of town.

I was thinking use it in the plot phase then reveal valar followed by a narrow escape as an action....

They could still discard their hand to stop the narrow escape if they wanted. But really, you're narrow escaping your own valar. I can see situations where that would be good (their characters have tons of saves, attachments, or power) but really that's pretty situational.

Well you could use it against a GJ play who is considering an offensive Valar, potentially they would then change their plot to something else, but either they kill their own guys too our you get 1 more turn to try to seal the deal before they Valar.

If they Valar just make yourself first player and then play this as the first response before they can trigger any of their saves. There's no need to forewarn them you have this trick in your hand so they can play around it. Being able to play it during any response window should include the save/cancel window.

The save / cancel window isn't actually a response window. Save / cancel is step 2, response is (I believe) step 4 or 5.

Theres a response window between reveal plot and the save/cancel window.

Theres a response window between reveal plot and the save/cancel window.

I think you got it mixed up with playing a response in step 5 of the action window (save/cancel are step 2) in case of step 5 response yes the response opportunity is open before its save/cancel window in step 5 which allows the response itself to be canceled or saved from.

Reveal Plots Framework goes:

Flip over plots->Determine Initiative->Begin Resolving "When Revealed"->Save/Cancel Responses->Finish Resolving "When Revealed"->Passives->Normal Responses to anything that has occurred previously

Whether Little and Less can stop saves after a Valar is flipped is entirely dependent on it being playable during the Save/Cancel Response step, because otherwise all saves and cancels and plot reveal effects have been triggered and resolved by the point when normal responses are allowed.

Ok, heres how I see it, you choose your plot but before you flip over and determine initiative you have the start of phase action/shadow window and a response window for it. Then you flip plots and carry on as normal. To stop saves you would just need to use it in the response window before the plots are revealed. I can see it being a gamble but sometimes its going pay off.

Ok, heres how I see it, you choose your plot but before you flip over and determine initiative you have the start of phase action/shadow window and a response window for it. Then you flip plots and carry on as normal. To stop saves you would just need to use it in the response window before the plots are revealed. I can see it being a gamble but sometimes its going pay off.

Since this says "any response window," I'd say you're good to go on a Valar turn. Moo hoo ha ha.

KTOM has said this is not able to be played in the save / cancel window. http://www.fantasyfl...=4&efidt=737338

Quoting him: ""Response window" is bad templating. There is no such thing as a response "window." There are only response STEPS in other windows (player and framework.)
You CANNOT play it during a save/cancel step. Since it does not use the word "save" or "cancel" so it cannot interrupt the initiation and resolution of another effect. Another reason response "step" would have been clearer: Step 5 is the response step/window. Step 2 is the save/cancel step/window.
But yes, any time you get to a Step 5, no matter what type of action window it is, you can use the card. That includes the "begin phase" framework window. However, you get to Shadows before you get to "Step 5" of that window. You cannot play it before the first card comes out of Shadows. (Although, since each card that comes out of Shadows has its own response step, you can play it in Response to the first card coming out of Shadows)."

Well, here's the question. Do response windows exist for actions which are not taken? If you *really* wanted to lock down a given phase, and the "Bob" the first player has no cards in shadows, could you say, "I have a framework action. During "Bob's" Shadows action opportunity, I have a Response"?It says it can be played during "any" response window, which I supposed could be read "You may play this card during the Response step of any Framework or Player Action Window."

I assume that since the various standard Framework Actions and Player Actions are enumerated in the timing charts, that they're eligible for this card, but one could start an argument that if no Action occurs, then no Responses could be played. Should this be phrased to say "you may play this card as a Response to any Action"?

I believe that you can play this in the response window that opens at the beginning of the turn. You don't need a shadows action for that.

I believe that you can play this in the response window that opens at the beginning of the turn. You don't need a shadows action for that.

derp. Got caught again. (this link mostly safe but other comics on the site very NSFW)