Card Game DB
Sign In
Create Account
Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Greatjon Umber
Submitted
Darksbane
, Aug 16 2010 05:59 PM | Last updated Mar 01 2011 07:59 PM
|
|
| Recent Decks: |
Robb & Roose Stark Noble Limited Fengshan 1st deck My first try v2 Wildling |
Greatjon Umber
10 Comments
Framework Action Window: Declare challenge type and declare/kneel attackers
Player Action Window: use of Any Phase/Challenges actions. This is where he would need to be added to the challenge.
FAW: Delcare Stealth and declare/kneel defenders. If GJ was not added to the challenge in the above PAW he can indeed by a target for stealth.
PAW: use of Any Phase/Challenges actions. If GJ was stealthed in the above FAW he cannot be added to the challenge. If he was not, then he could be added now.
FAW: Determine winner, etc...
Say you attack your opponent for a MIL challenge with 4 total STR during the FAW of declaring challenges/kneeling attackers. Neither of you take a player action, so they declare defenders for a total of 5 STR. Now, you can take a player action to add Greatjon into the challenge giving you an attack of 7 STR to their 5. Winning the challenge you can now also play things like Die by the Sword (LoW).
If they expect you to want to use GJ in the challenge, say they go ahead and commit 8 STR as the defender. Well that is good news for you too because it should make winning your next challenges easier since they over committed.
It is very similar but it is important to note that declaring a naval character is a player action, and is not considered a triggered effect. As far as I am aware there is no way to stop a naval defender except by stealthing the character first so it cannot participate as a defender. You can also block it with any effects that means that character cannot be declared, such asHerding the Masses (Core)
The way this differs from Greatjon Umber is that GJ's ability is a character ability and is considered a triggered effect. Therefore it can be cancelled with The Iron Throne (LotR) and may not be possible with something like Bowl of Brown (LoW) attached. It does however ignore any cannot be declared effects since the text states kneel Greatjon Umber to have him participate - the reason why he can be stealthed (if the owner doesn't trigger his ability before stealth is declared).
So keep that in mind when using/dealing with him
Also, worth noting here that naval characters can also be declared as defenders before stealth is assigned.
The following happened:
In a recent 4-player game we had the situation, that one player wanted to use Greatjon Umbers ability in a challange he wasn't actually part of.
(Player 1 attacks Player 2 - Player 3 wants to use Greatjon Umber in order to support either one them)
I couldn't find any rule saying that would be illegal...
Yes, Greatjon's controller is allowed to do that.
Just note that Greatjon's controller is neither the attacking nor defending player, so he cannot win or lose the challenge - which means that he's not going to be able to take advantage of Greatjon's participation for much of anything. It is a purely altruistic act.
@ktom
Thanks for the quick reply... We played it that exact way: No gains for the Stark player due to Greatjons participation.
The move itself could be stated altruistic yes, But, to be frank... in a 4-Way it never is. Just imagine the "Thanks-To-Umber-Winning-Party" controlling a charcter with an attribute deadly or so.
I think it is sneaky and underhand - pretty G.R.R.Martinish lets say. :]
Jumping Greatjon in to someone else's challenge as a defender when the attacker is likely to win the Deadly count is pretty dangerous. Remember, the defending player gets to choose any 1 defending character to kill for Deadly -- nothing in there about who controls that character. So the defending player could choose Greatjon to die for Deadly, even though Greatjon's controller has no "dog in the fight" of that challenge.
Also note that giving Greatjon Deadly and jumping him in doesn't contribute to the Deadly count one way or the other. Deadly compares the number of Deadly characters controlled by the attacking and defending players. Greatjon doesn't fit that bill if he jumps in.
That said, yeah, nothing is every "purely" altruistic in a melee game. It's all enlightened self-interest.