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Threat from the East

Submitted Darksbane , Apr 07 2011 01:53 PM | Last updated Aug 04 2012 01:44 AM

Threat from the East

Type: Plot House: Neutral
Income:4 Initiative: 6 Claim: 1
Game Text:
Errata

When revealed, you choose one:
-Each player draws 3 cards. Each player that drew 3 cards discards 3 random cards from hand.
-Each player discards 3 random cards from hand. Each player that discarded 3 cards draws 3 cards.
Number: 55 Set: QoD
Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Tomasz Jedruszek

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26 Comments

zecezar
May 05 2012 04:00 PM

If I decide to discard 3 then draw 3 but I don't have anything in my hands, what happends? Is the action canceled? or is it allright to simply draw 3 cards ignoring the fact that i didnt discard first?

jackmerridew
May 05 2012 04:24 PM

i could be wrong but i thought that you could only choose to discard 3 if you actually have 3 in your hand, if you have no cards in your hand and you flip this plot the only option is draw 3 to discard 3 or so i have believed. but luckily staton will swoop in here and correct me if im wrong

zecezar
May 05 2012 05:07 PM

Thanks, I'll wait then because two of our players had an argument on the importance of the word THEN in GOT, nobody was able to provide a clear answer.

jackmerridew
May 05 2012 05:27 PM

as per Ktom

Whenever an effect says to "then" do something, the part before the "then" must be completely successful before the part after the "then" can happen at all.
So in Threat from the East, if any player is unable to draw or discard all three cards (whichever you decided to do first), no player will get to do whatever would come second (although everyone must do as much of what you choose to do first as they can).

zecezar
May 05 2012 05:46 PM

That's what I thought, so basically discard but can't draw because I couldn't discard, thanks

Tobi
May 29 2012 08:08 PM

I guess the condition is foreach player, so if you can discard three cards, but your opponent has only two, he must discard two, you must discard three, but you should still be able to draw. The then seems to be foreach player, otherwise it would be "each player does x, then each player does y". Correct me if I'm wrong.

doulos2k
May 29 2012 09:47 PM

I don't think that's accurate. If one player is unable to complete the first portion, nobody can perform the second portion. This is why it's so brutal with The Laughing Storm (GotC) in play. You choose to discard three and then draw three, so everyone must attempt to fulfill part A (discard 3), but if one player is unable to fulfill part A, part B (the THEN) does not trigger. So, even if someone can discard TWO cards, they're unable to discard THREE... then nobody gets to draw.

The reason is "Each player" actually creates this restriction. Each player must be able to fulfill part A before part B can fire.

Laxen
May 30 2012 07:31 AM

I'm not sure about these rules for AGoT.... but I'm still pretty sure that's not how it works doulos based on what I know from other card games and rulings.

Players must still attempt to discard 3 cards even if they not have three cards, and the seconds part of the effect will still take effect. If the seconds part was dependent of the first to success, I believe that it would state so.

Why The Laughing Storm is good with this plot is simply because you get to draw 3 cards - without having to discard any.

I would very much like someone who is sure about the rules to clarify this.

Decathexis
May 30 2012 07:56 AM

"I'm not sure about these rules for AGoT.... but I'm still pretty sure that's not how it works doulos based on what I know from other card games and rulings."

You can't base rules in this game from other games, that's generally not how things work.

"If the seconds part was dependent of the first to success, I believe that it would state so."

That's what the then word means. If unable to complete the effect before the then, the after effect doesn't occur.

"Why The Laughing Storm is good with this plot is simply because you get to draw 3 cards - without having to discard any."

This does work if you choose the draw first option, however Nate has apparently ruled that if any player doesn't complete the first part (not enough cards/draw cap/laughing storm) then the second part doesn't occur.

Laxen
May 30 2012 11:39 AM

Actually one can base one's believes on one game's rules on another game's rules. This is very often how one learns to play a new game. Generally, many rules are very much alike.

Did some reseach and it turns out that you was correct doulos - if the first part is not fulfilled by all players, neither get to do the second part. At least based on this thread at FFG forums.

doulos2k
May 30 2012 12:09 PM

Thanks Laxen - especially for posting the ruling. I was certain of how TLS interacted with the plot. It's most often used to force your opponent to discard and not be able to draw (since you didn't discard with TLS in play). What I wasn't absolutely certain of was whether or not a separate ruling had been made that allowed a partial completion of Part A to be enough to move onto Part B (didn't think so... but that's where my uncertainty was).

That forum post makes it clear to me, it must be a full completion of Part A in order to be able to fulfill Part B. Thanks again!

Laxen
May 30 2012 03:55 PM

Ye, your use of the word "think" made be believe that you were also speculating - but obviously you knew what you were talking about

Thank you too.

Anurak
Jun 01 2012 12:26 PM

I have a question about TftE when the opposite happens (first draw, then discard). The scenario is this:
After the plots are revealed the opponent draws 3 cards (Flea Bottom Scavenger (AToT)). If I reveal TftE as the second plot this turn (by using Bran or other effects), then the opponent does not draw cards because of the max 3 additional card draw limit. Since he was unable to fulfill the first part, does this mean we won't discard cards?

Staton
Jun 01 2012 01:25 PM

That is correct

zordren
Aug 05 2012 09:08 PM

So I am still a little confused with the newest FAQ (v3.3). If I have drawn a card through some effect (e.g. Bay of Ice) prior to this "when revealed" kicking off, and I choose the first option (drawing only 2 cards, of course), will I have to still discard 3 cards? Or will I discard no cards, since I didn't draw 3?

For the second option, if any of the players have less than 3 cards in hand, then he/she is forced to discard the remaining 1 or 2 cards, but then doesn't get to draw anything, since he/she didn't discard the full 3?

zordren
Aug 05 2012 09:09 PM

(hey cool I have zero "warning points". guess that means i have been a good boy...)

sWhiteboy
Aug 05 2012 09:20 PM

You are right on both accounts. If you don't draw 3 from this effect, then you don't discard 3 OR if you don't discard 3 from this effect, then you don't draw 3.

NuFenix
Aug 05 2012 10:23 PM

Bear in mind zorden, you wouldn't draw from Bay of Ice until after all plots have resolved.

You would need to draw as a player action before plots are picked, or draw a card from a different plot that resolves before Threat from the East, so that you would draw the remaining cards and not have to discard.

zordren
Aug 05 2012 10:28 PM

@swhiteboy: thanks for the clarification!

@NuF: I thought bay of ice was passive that resolves between determining winner of initiative and resolving plots (but i do still suck at a lot of these rules and may very well b wrong...)

NuFenix
Aug 05 2012 11:04 PM

Bay of Ice is indeed a passive, but it will occur during the passive step of the plot framework, which is Step 4, whereas plots being revealed and going through their effects are Steps 1-3. As there is no moment for passives to resolve until then, whoever will draw from Bay of Ice has to wait, same for other passives or responses to plots, including cards that respond to initiative such as Frostfang Peaks (TWH).

Hopefully that makes sense!

Grimwalker
Aug 06 2012 02:37 AM

I'm still kind of scratching my head over what to do with this. Always have done.

A second Mulligan? Build your deck better.
Use TLS to get card advantage for yourself even if it doesn't screw everyone else? Not bad, but we can't all play Bara knights.
Meddle with other people when you have 2 or fewer cards in hand? Fun, but is that really the best plot choice for a card slot?

zordren
Aug 06 2012 08:27 PM

@NuF: yeah that makes sense - thanks!

NuFenix
Aug 06 2012 09:14 PM

Grimwalker - It is useful from a control sense, where if decks have access to card draw, you are making them cap it that turn without any benefit, as they will be discarding cards at random. Get some pre-draw in with King's Landing (SaS) (assuming you have the most King's Landing locations) or Valyrian Steel Link (HtS) (assuming you have maesters) as just two example, and you will be drawing without a penalty.

Ire
Aug 08 2012 08:28 AM

Also fun against season decks, make their A Time for Ravens (ACoS) go first and then hit them with 3 random discard. Sometimes it will leave them ravenless and now even without a search plot.

jackmerridew
Oct 25 2012 08:34 PM

ok so explain this to me like im 5, im playing Bara and i have The Laughing Storm out and i pull Threat from the East as my first plot, whats different is there any benefit for me doing that now?