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Red Vengeance

Submitted Darksbane , Aug 18 2010 01:19 AM | Last updated Mar 01 2011 07:11 PM

Red Vengeance

Type: Event House: Martell
Cost:
Game Text:

House Martell only.
Response: After you lose a challenge as the defender, kneel 2 influence to cancel the claim effect of that challenge. Then, choose an opponent to satisfy the claim of that challenge as if he or she had lost the challenge as the defender.
Number: 25 Set: PotS
Quantity: 2 Illustrator: Tomasz Jedruszek

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20 Comments

Boofus

May 18 2012 02:23 PM

My opponent plays Red Vengeance and I have to satisfy the claim of the challenge as if I had lost that challenge as the defender. What is the claim value? His plot's or mine's?

slothgodfather

May 18 2012 03:10 PM

It is still your claim value. All things that effect claim are still in place, such as things that raise/lower/change your claim. Also note that you still "win" the challenge, and they still "lost" it. It doesn't change that. So other abilities can still trigger from that.

Boofus

May 23 2012 12:36 PM

What troubled me is the wording "...satisfy the claim of that challenge as if he or she had lost the challenge as the defender". That last part is unnecessary, isn't it?

doulos2k

May 23 2012 02:31 PM

Well, attackers don't satisfy claim, so without that last bit, it leaves some room for an argument. With that last sentence in place, there's no doubt.

FinalWarrior

Jul 19 2012 07:17 PM

Another rules question:
I have a knelt Maester Kedry (FtC) in play with Quentyn Martell (VD) on my house card. If my opponent wins the challenge, can I stand Maester Kedry for vengeful, and then play Red Vengeance? My guess is no because save/cancel happens before passive, but I was hoping for some clarification.

Staton

Jul 19 2012 07:37 PM

You are correct. You need to trigger this in step 2 of the challenge resolution. Kedry doesn't stand until step 4 when Vengeful happens with passives.

NuFenix

Jul 19 2012 08:03 PM

Which is why if Kedry is standing to begin with, you can kneel him to pay for Red Vengeance, and then he will stand from Vengeful, leaving him ready for future use.

FinalWarrior

Jul 19 2012 08:09 PM

Ah! See, that way it makes more sense! How did I miss that!

slothgodfather

Jul 19 2012 08:17 PM

And now we have Ser Gerris Drinkwater (CD) who could stand Kedry when you block the challenge, play RV when you lose using Kedry, then they both stand for Vengeful and you get to draw one card for Quentyn.

- FinalWarrior likes this

krathrax

Nov 15 2012 10:16 AM

How does this work with power challanges? Who'S house would power come off?

Laxen

Nov 15 2012 10:32 AM

Well, the attacker doesn't change, so afaik you the winning attacker takes power from the player you chose for the effect - if it is the same player (attacker and chosen player), he or she just gives [claim value] power to him or herself.

- slothgodfather likes this

doulos2k

Nov 15 2012 05:16 PM

Laxen is correct. In a Joust game, playing Red Vengeance makes a net 0 power change because the attacker is fulfilling his/her own claim. This can be a crucial play late game to prevent a 4 power swing during a 2-claim power challenge (2 from you to them).

slothgodfather

Nov 15 2012 05:21 PM

It's also great in melee games since it can greatly affect the power totals if you have another opponent pay the claim.

Diogo

Feb 01 2013 11:24 AM

Who wins the Challenge? The attacker or the defender who lost but used Red Vengeance?

Ire

Feb 01 2013 11:42 AM

The attacker wins the challenge as Red Vengeance doesn't state anything about changing winner (unlike cards like Misinformation (TWH))

greak

Jul 06 2013 06:04 PM

can this card be cancelled ? like the other player throwing another card to cancel it ?

theCrow

Jul 06 2013 06:42 PM

Of course it can be cancelled, why would you think otherwise? The Hand's Judgement (TTotH), Alannys Greyjoy (ODG), Finger Dance (WLL) among others are cards that can cancel Red Vengeance. The only event, that I can think of, that cannot be cancelled is Little and Less (ARotD) and that's only because it explicitly says so.

vengeanceofthenorth

May 15 2016 05:40 PM

If the redirected challenge is unopposed, would my opponent still claim the power for UO? I imagine yes.

ktom

May 16 2016 11:22 PM

The challenge isn't actually redirected. It just puts someone else on the hook for claim. Who wins or loses the challenge, by how much and whether or not it is opposed is not affected at all.

vengeanceofthenorth

May 18 2016 02:07 PM

Ah, thank you

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Red Vengeance

Red Vengeance

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