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Arya Stark



  • Type: Character
  • Faction: Stark
  • Cost: 3
  • Icons: Power
  • Strength: 2
  • Lady.
  • Stealth.

    While Arya Stark has a duplicate, she gains
    a [Military] icon.

    Reaction: After Arya Stark enters play, place the top card of your deck on her facedown as a duplicate.
  • Quantity: 1
  • Number: 141
  • Illustrator: Joshua Cairós
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20 Comments

If Arya gets hit with Milk of the Poppy, does her "duplicate" still work as such?

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theamazingmrg
Sep 01 2015 02:48 PM

If Arya gets hit with Milk of the Poppy, does her "duplicate" still work as such?

Yes.  Milk of the Poppy only blanks the printed text of a character.  Duplicates are abilities gained by the character, not printed on their card, so Milk of the Poppy doesn't prevent them.

 

If 2.0 ever gets a similar effect to the 1.0 plot, Fortified Position, though, then her ability to grab a dupe when played would never trigger.

Duplicates don't work the same in 2.0 like they did in 1.0.  Duplicate Save Interrupts are not gained by the character.  It's a separate game effect in 2.0.  This is important to know when it comes to effects that prevent or interact with character abilities initiating.

I was taking the question to refer to the ability gained by Arya's duplicate (the military icon). So just to be clear, Milk of the Poppy would negate that since her text box is now blanked and therefore not granting it. It would not impact her duplicate directly, though. I may have misunderstood the original question, however.

Once the card is attached to her, the dupe remains a dupe. The properties of the card were created by the effect that brought it into play. What happens to that after she is blanked by MotP is irrelevant.

Think of it this way:

Suppose Arya's ability said, "Reaction: After Arya Stark enters play, discard the top card of your deck to give her +2 STR until the end of the round." You're first player, you Marshal Arya, and trigger her ability. Then, when your opponent Marshals, he puts Milk of the Poppy on Arya. Does she lose the +2 STR? No, because it is a lasting effect. It persists through its duration (the end of the round) once the effect is triggered, no matter what happens to Arya's printed text.

 

The dupe ability works the same way. The facedown is considered a dupe because you triggered Arya's reaction, so that lasting effect persists, no matter what happens to Arya's printed text.

 

Now, if Arya were phrased something more like:
"Facedown cards on Arya Stark are treated as duplicates.

Reaction: After Arya Stark enters play, place the top card of your deck on her face down." 

THEN banking her would matter because all the reaction does is place the top card of the deck on her - it is the continuous, non-triggered (and not a lasting effect) "facedowns are treated as..." text that makes it a dupe.

    • theamazingmrg likes this
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PatrickHaynes
Sep 01 2015 09:44 PM

If 2.0 ever gets a similar effect to the 1.0 plot, Fortified Position, though, then her ability to grab a dupe when played would never trigger.

I believe 2.0 already has such an effect...Fortified position.

    • theamazingmrg, JonofPDX, FedericoFasullo and 1 other like this
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theamazingmrg
Sep 02 2015 09:34 AM

I believe 2.0 already has such an effect...Fortified position.

I knew that was in the box.  Honest.

I don't pretend to be a rules lawyer, Ktom, but this one isn't intuitive for me. Your example seems clear, but the actual text reading "while arya has a duplicate" is not the same to me as something like "when a duplicate is played, Arya gains a military icon" where I'd assume blanking would do nothing to it since the effect was initiated and is lasting. This reads to me more like a character ability (albeit with a point of initiation, the playing of the duplicate). I guess that's where I'm missing it.

Take a look at Arya's text again. She reads, "While Arya Stark has a duplicate, she gains a MIL icon," not "When a duplicate is played, Arya gains a MIL icon." She does not gain the MIL icon by virtue of a dupe being marshaled (note that in 2.0, a dupe is never "played"), but rather by virtue of there currently being a dupe on her. That part of her ability has nothing to do with the "Reaction" part of her ability (which effectively creates a dupe out of any card).

 

So yes, the "gains a MIL" icon part of her ability is a continuous effect which requires the text to be present and active in order to keep the MIL icon. Blanking her text would take away the MIL icon, whether she has a dupe on her or not. This is exactly consistent with the examples of a continuous and lasting effects given above.

 

The "quick and dirty" interpretation is this: If it does NOT begin with bold timing words, it is a continuous effect, the text needs to be active to work, and blanking will stop it. But if it DOES begin with bold timing words, it is a triggered effect that creates a lasting effect, once triggered it does not need its text to be active to work, and blanking will not stop it.

I don't pretend to be a rules lawyer, Ktom, but this one isn't intuitive for me.[...]

 

I think there was a misunderstanding regarding ktom's initial post, he was replying to the OP (regarding whether the duplicate is a duplicate at all).

 

 

I was taking the question to refer to the ability gained by Arya's duplicate (the military icon). So just to be clear, Milk of the Poppy would negate that since her text box is now blanked and therefore not granting it. It would not impact her duplicate directly, though.[...]

 

Yes, as ktom confirmed with his last post :)

I also don't pretend to be a careful reader, apparently. ;) I guess I had it right without realizing it. Thanks, everyone.

    • uPoHu4Hu9 likes this
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keithsboredom
Nov 12 2015 03:14 PM

question, do you get to look at the card that is placed facedown? or is it a mystery?

Yes, you get to look at the facedown card. Your opponent doesn't.

RRG, p. 8: "Facedown Cards: x A player may look at the identity of any facedown card that is in play and under his or her control."

    • keithsboredom likes this

What are people thinking of this Arya vs the incoming Wolves of the North Arya?

 

Off the top of my head this one feels like the better card all 'round. 3-cost for a bicon with stealth (in Stark, they need it) and a built in save in the form of the duplicate. On the other hand Wolves of the North Arya seems to synergize better with the emerging Stark mechanics...but 4-cost seems steep to ditch her for that effect (after a STARK character you control is killed, sacrifice Arya to choose and kill a character with 3 or less STR). 

 

Thoughts?

I'm with you. Targeted kill is nice, but 4 strength is the really useful threshold there. Given that Grey Wind + Rob can give you a 2-str kill for a kneel, sacrifice for a 3-str kill doesn't seem like a great trade. There are other ways to trigger the sacrifice mechanic (Bran, new Jon, etc).

 

Maybe if there was some Stark-friendly strength reduction - I can see her being quite potent under an old-school Threat From the North round, for instance.

    • JonofPDX likes this

I'm with you. Targeted kill is nice, but 4 strength is the really useful threshold there. Given that Grey Wind + Rob can give you a 2-str kill for a kneel, sacrifice for a 3-str kill doesn't seem like a great trade. There are other ways to trigger the sacrifice mechanic (Bran, new Jon, etc).

 

Maybe if there was some Stark-friendly strength reduction - I can see her being quite potent under an old-school Threat From the North round, for instance.

 

Yeah. This Arya is definitely the superior card in a vacuum.

 

But, I don't know, I feel like just being unique and Stark and having a discard ability might be worth running Wolves Arya if they continue the discard theme as heavily as they seem to want to. But if they're going to do that then they need some Stark econ boost. As-is, it's expensive to discard a 4-cost ally for that kill effect. 

 

Might all be worth it, though, if we get some super 3-cost allies that are worth killing for that price...

Upcoming Septa Mordane makes her a tricon with Stealth and Immune to Plot Effects when Duped. 

 

Even with only 2 base strength, that's insanely good. And in Stark/Rose...

Hi,

 

Just to be sure, no dupe on Arya at setup?

Nope.

 

http://thronesdb.com...reference#Setup

9. Reveal setup cards. All players turn their setup cards faceup simultaneously. Then, each player attaches his or her attachments and places his or her duplicates, in player order. Note: Cards are not considered to have been marshaled, played, put into play, or to have entered play when they are revealed or announced in setup, and card abilities that reference those terms are ignored during this step. These cards are considered "already in play" when the game begins.

    • Pokasus likes this