If you are sacrificing a Cultist to reduce the cost of an Elite Daemon, that will be the "next Elite" you deploy that phase.  This is because the reactions to sacrificing each Cultist would be nested within the interrupt window. So the reaction to the Cultist is actually resolved before the Interrupt window to deploying the Elite Daemon closes, effectively reducing the cost by 2.

Rules question reference:

http://www.cardgamed...-is-next-elite/

The question I want to make sure we get answered is: If I sac 2 cultists for 1 plaguebeast, does the plaguebeast now cost 1 resource? I believe the answer is obviously yes, but I'm just making sure.

See the thread referenced above. It's the same question (just with a different example of an Elite Daemon unit). The short answer is, "yes: If the Daemon you are sac-ing the Cultist token for is also Elite, both effects contribute to its reduction."

Now I only need more cultist generation...

Here you go

http://www.cardgamed...lit-tongue-r103

​

And note that the Warpsmith's reaction ability can also be triggered if you sacrifice a Cultist token to remove all damage from your Flesh Hounds in the deploy phase - you still get the cost-reducing benefit of the Warpsmith for your next Elite deployment during that phase. Nice potential command stall there too.. 

Nice! At last I can deploy two Heldrakes on turn one :-)

I believe you would need 1 Warpsmith, 2 Heldrakes, 3 Promise of Glory and 1 Coliseum Fighter. It would be an impressive combination.

Both combinations work, both equally implausible.

You are right. I missed it when I originally added up the cost in your example. (2 resources remaining at end)

Warpsmith          cost 4

Splintered Path   cost 1

Promise of G      cost 0

Promise of G      cost 0

Promise of G      cost 0

Play Helldrake #1 

+Sacrafice 4 Cultists

                          cost 0

Play Helldrake #2

+Sacrafice 2 cultists

+Sacrafice Splintered Path

                          cost 2

7 Total resources & 7 Cards.

Does this make Throne builds for Ku'Gath more viable than say, Dirty Dozen?

Here is how I understand the chain of events when Master Warpsmith is used. You can deploy an Elite unit by sacrificing Cultists as usual, but the Warpsmith will reaply this sacrifice for the next Elite unit you deploy.

I will take RedAngelofPeace's cards example.

1) Deploy Warpsmith : 4

2) Deploy Splintered Path : 1

3) Promise of G : 0

4) Promise of G : 0

5 ) Promise of G : 0

Deploy Helldrake #1 + Sacrifice Splintered and 6 Cultits : cost 0

This is because first you deploy the Helldrake on a planet, so it should cost you 8. But secondly you reduce its cost using the "interrupt" from Splintered and Cultists, making you save 8$ in total.

Deploy Helldrake #2 : cost 2

This is because now the Reaction of the Warpsmith applies thanks to the 6 Cultists you have sacrificed previously, so you save 6$.

Am I the only thinking in that order or not ?

It doesn't quite work that way kinsale. The cost reduction from the Master Warpsmith would first apply to Heldrake #1 in your example so you'd only need to sacrifice three cultist tokens and trigger the Warpsmiths reaction three times as well (the sacrifices of the tokens are interrupts). Since you are reacting to interrupts with the warpsmith, Heldrake #1 in your example is the 'next Elite unit you deploy'.

Heldrake #2 can still be reduced to two-cost using the remaining three cultist tokens and the Warpsmith's reaction ability in the same manner during your next deployment.

kinsale: It looks like you might not be thinking through the order of initiation (RRG, p. 8-9) entirely right when deploying Helldrake #1. The process would look like this:

Step 1 - Check play restrictions (i.e., is it your turn to take a deployment action - the only real prerequisite for deploying Helldrake #1?)

Step 2 - Determine costs (i.e., Helldrake #1 costs 8 resources)

Step 3 - Modify costs (here's where it gets interesting):

   3a: Trigger Cultist Token #1's interrupt (reduce cost by 1 - Helldrake #1 costs 7)

   Reaction to 3a: Warpsmith reduces cost of next Elite - Helldrake #1 - now cost 6)

   3b: Trigger Cultist Token #2's interrupt (reduce cost by 1 - Helldrake #1 costs 5)

   Reaction to 3b: Warpsmith reduces cost of next Elite - Helldrake #1 - now cost 4)

   (NO REASON TO MODIFY COSTS FURTHER)

Step 4 - Pay (modified) cost (i.e., pay 0 resources)

Step 5 - Choose targets (not applicable to deploying units)

Step 6 - Card is deployed (i.e., Helldrake #1 leaves your hand for the first time and enters play at the planet you deploy it to.)

So, if you're keeping count, Helldrake #1 cost you 0 resources, and you still have 2 Cultist tokens left - plus the Splintered Path Acolyte. If you apply those 2 tokens (plus reactions from the Warpsmith) and the Acolyte to Helldrake #2, you'll reduce the cost by 6 total, leaving you to pay 2 resources - exactly what you have left.

From your post, it looks like you might have incorrectly been putting Helldrake #1 into play (Step 6) before modifying its cost (Step 3), leading to an erroneous application of the Warpsmith's cost reduction when deploying an Elite Daemon.

So, you got the right result (Helldrake #1 costs 0, Helldrake #2 costs 2), but not exactly for the right reasons (as an Elite Daemon, the Warpsmith's reaction will apply to the same Helldrake you sacrifice to token to pay for). 

So Skyknight, if people use Master Warpsmith the way you say it, this is a very very powerfull card then. It's a big open door to deploy high cost units for nothing.

How Heldrake #1 could be "the next Elite you deploy" since you are already in the process of deploying it when you sacrifice cultist tokens ?

1) Let's say you are deploying a Daemon-Elite unit in Deploy Phase. Helldrake #1 for example 

2) I'm sacrificing 2 cultists tokens that say "Interrupt : When you deploy a Daemon unit, sacrifice this unit to reduce its cost by 1"

3) Since you are reacting to interrupts with the warpsmith (as you say), Helldrake #1 should not be the next Elite unit because the process to deploy this unit is already on. Instead, the reaction should apply to Helldrake #2.

If it were Helldrake #1 that gets the cost reduction, the Master Warpsmith should be written as "After you sacrifice a Cultist token, reduce the cost of the Elite unit you're deploying this phase by 1."

Am I wrong then ?

Well I guess deploying two Heldrakes on Turn 1 pretty cool. But how about three? There is a way.

Well I guess deploying two Heldrakes on Turn 1 pretty cool. But how about three? There is a way.

I'm going to go ahead and say no to this one unless you count a Y'varn trigger, but then you need to draw a Helldrake in command, have Y'varn in play and go to Y'varn and battle there. I'd say we're into extremely stacked deck territory (i.e. cheating) for that to even come up once during actual play. The insane starting hand of 3x PoG 2x Helldrake 1x Acolyte and 1x Warpsmith is at least a hand that might once in a blue moon actually end getting drawn (I'd compare it to a slightly more likely Royal Straight Flush but my math might be off on that one).

I'm going to go ahead and say no to this one unless you count a Y'varn trigger, but then you need to draw a Helldrake in command, have Y'varn in play and go to Y'varn and battle there. I'd say we're into extremely stacked deck territory (i.e. cheating) for that to even come up once during actual play. The insane starting hand of 3x PoG 2x Helldrake 1x Acolyte and 1x Warpsmith is at least a hand that might once in a blue moon actually end getting drawn (I'd compare it to a slightly more likely Royal Straight Flush but my math might be off on that one).

You can't even count the Y'varn trigger as that is put into play and not "deploy" like walkingphoenix stated.

Mis-post.

So Skyknight, if people use Master Warpsmith the way you say it, this is a very very powerfull card then. It's a big open door to deploy high cost units for nothing.

 

How Heldrake #1 could be "the next Elite you deploy" since you are already in the process of deploying it when you sacrifice cultist tokens ?

 

1) Let's say you are deploying a Daemon-Elite unit in Deploy Phase. Helldrake #1 for example 

2) I'm sacrificing 2 cultists tokens that say "Interrupt : When you deploy a Daemon unit, sacrifice this unit to reduce its cost by 1"

3) Since you are reacting to interrupts with the warpsmith (as you say), Helldrake #1 should not be the next Elite unit because the process to deploy this unit is already on. Instead, the reaction should apply to Helldrake #2.

 

If it were Helldrake #1 that gets the cost reduction, the Master Warpsmith should be written as "After you sacrifice a Cultist token, reduce the cost of the Elite unit you're deploying this phase by 1."

 

Am I wrong then ?

Yes But don't worry, it can be a little tricky at first. Look at the rules' entry on Interrupts:

"Interrupt abilities [here the cultist token's ability] resolve just before their triggering condition occurs, sometimes canceling or changing the resolution of that condition." (RRG 9)

When you trigger the Master Warpsmith's reaction it reacts to the interrupt (which in turn occurs before the Heldrake (or any other Elite daemon unit) is deployed) and not the deployment. In other words you are changing the cost before the card is deployed.

The key thing to remember is that interrupts (when played/executed) happen just before the game state/condition that allows them to trigger. As such it doesn't matter that you were already in the process of deploying the Heldrake.

Se also ktom's nice breakdown just below my last post.

This card may as well have been named "Kill Me First."  It is an enemy warlord magnet.  In the past few games, an enermy WL went immediately to any planet where I had deployed one of these. and twice in 2 rounds in another game, my foe Deception'd a just deployed warpsmith (would have been cheaper and easier to simply pay for the elite unit outright).

I do not deploy warpsmiths now unless there are ready chaos tokens and an elite is in hand for deploying.

This card may as well have been named "Kill Me First."  It is a enemy warlord magnet.  In the past few games, an enermy WL went immediately to any planet where I had deployed one of these.

I think just like the Recon Drone and the Eldar Survivalist it is to be expected that the Master Warpsmith draws aggro. And it's a little on the expensive side to use at a decoy. But maybe one could still use this knowledge to one's advantage in some way?

Whimsicool, did you deploy it alongside your warlord? (did you commit your warlord to the same planet as the Warpsmith)? That might be a good approach to keep it alive a little longer.

Deception though is certainly a very powerful counter for this card. Ugh, I hadn't noticed that - sounds nasty