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The Unofficial FAQ

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#1
istaril

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Here I've attempted to pool together some of the most commonly asked questions we're seeing on this board (and others). I will add to it over time, remove any entries added in the official FAQ, etc.

 

Rules Errata/Clarification:

  • RR p9 "by which a player reveals a new plot his or her" should read "plot and his or her"
  • RR p20 Stealth "and is not eligible to be declared" should have the text from the L2P guide "cannot be declared".
  • RR p23 "interrupts are eligbly" should read "eligible"

Card Errata/Clarification:

  • None at this time except that in the official FAQ.

Frequently Asked Questions

 

1. What happens if I have a unique card in play and in the dead pile?

Spoiler

 

2. What is the cost of cancelling an event with printed cost X with "The Hand's Judgement" (Core)?

Spoiler

 

3. Can I play "Seen in Flames" (Core) on an opponent with no cards in hand?

Spoiler

 

4. Does a card need to be in play/active at the time it's triggering condition happened in order to be initiated/used?

Spoiler

 

5. Bringing Dupes into Play / Arianne & Duplicates
Credit: ktom

Spoiler

 

6.  Maester Luwin (Westeros)'s granting abilities:

Spoiler

 

7. Can Rakharo (Westeros) react to characters killed by claim replacements?

Spoiler

 

8. What is the timing on "Then" effects (aka "Can Risen from the Sea (Core) save from Dracarys! (Core))

Spoiler


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#2
lordhakera

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I'll try to keep these much shorter than the ones in your OP as they simply seek to clarify questions which are being asked ad nauseam in the FaceBook Group. Feel free to rewrite/clarify them so they are more in line with your formatting, but try to keep the short answer at the top and place any additional clarification (such as rules references) below it.
 
I am aware some of these are addressed in some way or manner in your other entries, but I feel that having a "simplified" version of them may help reduce confusion. Also, there are others that are straight-up examples of "RTFR" or "RTFC", but I'd rather take the time to write them up here than see another 50 people ask whether Bran can be saved with a Dupe or if First Snow can be prevented with a STR boost *facepalm*.
 
p.s. I'm not sure if I should have posted this here or simply PM-ed it to you. If you want, I can remove my post after you incorporate these into the OP.
 
Edit - Had some problems with the Spoiler tag, managed to figure it out. Apparently, ending a paragraph seems to break it, so I had to go back and replace all new paragraphs with line breaks which is somewhat inconvenient :V
 
Can I initiate a challenge with 0 STR? (Related Card: Lord of the Crossing)
Spoiler
 
Can I win (on attack or defense) a challenge with 0 STR? (Related Card: Lord of the Crossing)
Spoiler
 
Are there multiple challenge "phases" or is every players challenges in a different "phase"? (Related Card: For the Watch!)
Spoiler
 
Can I trigger any effects before First Snow of Winter's Forced Reaction triggers? (Related Cards: First Snow of Winter, Brothel Madame)
Spoiler
 
Can I use an effect such as Wintefell Kennel Master or Wardens of the North to ignore the limitations of Knight of Flowers or Jousting Contest? (Related Cards: Winterfell Kennel Master, Knight of Flowers, Jousting Contest, Wardens of the North, Hodor)
Spoiler
 
Can I save from a burn effect such as Dracarys or Plaza of Punishment? (Related Cards: Dracarys!, Plaza of Punishment, Maester Aemon, Risen from the Sea, Margaery Tyrell)
Spoiler
 
Can I use [Any Sacrifice Effect] and then save my character with a Dupe or other save effect? (Related Cards: Bran Stark, Maester Aemon, For the Rose Banner)
Spoiler
 
EDIT: Added Arbor ruling below.
 
Can I setup a Duplicate of an Unique Limited card or marshall a Duplicate of an Unique Limited card without it counting towards my "1 Limited card per round" limitation? (Related Card: The Arbor)
Spoiler

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#3
mplain

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Things to add to the FAQ:

 

1) Triggered abilities should conform to the following rule (currently applies only to events):

(relevant example: Nymeria's ability is used, then a Sand Snake enters play)

 

Event card effects engage the game state at the time they resolve. If an event card creates a lasting effect on a set of cards, only cards that are in play at the time the event card is played are eligible to be affected. Cards that enter play after the resolution of the event are not affected by its lasting effect.

 

2) The following rule should differentiate between direct targets and reference targets (source): (already in the official FAQ)

 

A card is not an eligible target for an ability if the resolution of that ability's effect could not affect the target at all.

 

3) Clearly state that when assessing the potential of an ability's effect to change the game state, only the pre-then part of the effect is taken into consideration (source #1: source #2).

 

4) The "After an event is played" triggering condition happens after the event's effects resolve (or are cancelled) (source).

 

5) Clearly state during which step of the initiation of Arianne's or The Queen of Thorns' ability the player has to reveal the card he intends to put into play, specifically that it happens before the opponent can choose to react to the initiation of the effect, and counter it.


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#4
istaril

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I have been away a lot...

 

Some basic trimming, cutting down the OP according to the new FAQ.

 

I think I'll add the Benjen x2 (Quentyn) example, and the Jon Snow "sacrifice to" in combination with Robb standing all your characters.



#5
mplain

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1) Initiating Abilities/Marshaling Cards (RRG page 10)

- This procedure should apply in all cases when a card would enter play (specifically, showing the card to be used, and checking play restrictions). Currently it does not cover resolving post-Then effects and/or abilities initiated by your opponent (e.g. Bitterbridge Encampment), nor Ambushing.

 

2) Unique cards in play and in the dead pile (FAQ pages 2-3)

- Should say: "A player cannot marshal or put into play a copy of an opponent’s unique card <...>". Currently this rule does not cover Night Gathers. Already in the FAQ.



#6
ktom

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2) Unique cards in play and in the dead pile (FAQ pages 2-3)

- Should say: "A player cannot marshal or put into play a copy of an opponent’s unique card <...>". Currently this rule does not cover Night Gathers.

 

Assuming they want "marshal" to have the same outcome as "put into play" in such a situation. Given the difference in mechanics used, FFG may not expect Night Gathers and Yoren to have similar outcomes. i.e., the difference in the "marshal" and "put into play" mechanics means that this is not necessarily an inconsistency in the rules.



#7
mplain

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Assuming they want "marshal" to have the same outcome as "put into play" in such a situation. Given the difference in mechanics used, FFG may not expect Night Gathers and Yoren to have similar outcomes. i.e., the difference in the "marshal" and "put into play" mechanics means that this is not necessarily an inconsistency in the rules.

 

Nate said that the new rule was introduced in the FAQ, quote: "so that a player cannot control 2 copies of the same unique in play, nor can a player own 2 copies of the same unique in play." If this is the general intention, I assume Nate would want this rule to cover Night Gathers as well.



#8
hypernexus

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Hi Guys,

New to this. Great site. Wanted to ask this about point 1 :

1. What happens if I have a unique card in play and in the dead pile?

 

It is therefore not impossible to wind up with a character that is both in play and in the dead pile. This has no effect on the character currently in play; there is nothing in the rules that prevents this situation. The rules on dead piles/uniques are quite explicit; having a copy in play simply prevents you from playing/putting into play/taking control of further copies.

 

This does have the following practical application: you can no longer place a duplicate on your living copy of the card, as marshalling/putting into play a copy of the card is prevented by the presence of a copy in your dead pile. It's possible the character in play also feels a little shiver run down their spine...

 

The quote in bold here highlights the subject of my query :

In the rules for duplicates it states :xxMarshaling a duplicate is not considered marshaling
a card of the duplicate’s printed type. It is only
considered “marshaling a duplicate card.” and that "A duplicate is only considered a blank
“duplicate card” while it is in play."

 

And in the rules for dead pile :'xxA player cannot marshal, play, put into play, or take
control of a copy of any unique (󲀋) card that is in
his or her dead pile.

 

 

So my question/observation  is : if the marshalling of a duplicate is not considered anything other than a duplicate, then does this mean that you can indeed still issue a duplicate of a unique card even if one is in your dead pile. You are considered to be marshalling a duplicate only,which even in play is simply considered a duplicate and not a copy of that unique card.

 

We had this scenario on the weekend and the query came up.

 

Cheers guys

 

 

 



#9
mplain

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So my question/observation  is : if the marshalling of a duplicate is not considered anything other than a duplicate, then does this mean that you can indeed still issue a duplicate of a unique card even if one is in your dead pile. You are considered to be marshalling a duplicate only,which even in play is simply considered a duplicate and not a copy of that unique card.

 

Marshaling a duplicate is not considered to be marshaling a card of the dupe's printed type, and so it doesn't trigger any abilities that react to a card of a certain type entering play.

 

However, in order to marshal or bring into play a card, you must first check play restrictions. Before the card leaves your hand, before you pay for it, before anything else - you need to check play restrictions.

 

Now, you have this unique character in hand, and you ask the game: "Can I bring this into play?", and the game answers: "Nope, this character is dead, you cannot attempt to bring it into play".

 

At that point, the game doesn't know that the card will enter play as a duplicate. It doesn't check the board to see if there's another copy in play. But it does check the dead pile.

 

You attempt to bring a unique character into play. It might enter play as a duplicate. You never attempt to bring a duplicate into play.



#10
hypernexus

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Marshaling a duplicate is not considered to be marshaling a card of the dupe's printed type, and so it doesn't trigger any abilities that react to a card of a certain type entering play.

 

However, in order to marshal or bring into play a card, you must first check play restrictions. Before the card leaves your hand, before you pay for it, before anything else - you need to check play restrictions.

 

Now, you have this unique character in hand, and you ask the game: "Can I bring this into play?", and the game answers: "Nope, this character is dead, you cannot attempt to bring it into play".

 

At that point, the game doesn't know that the card will enter play as a duplicate. It doesn't check the board to see if there's another copy in play. But it does check the dead pile.

 

You attempt to bring a unique character into play. It might enter play as a duplicate. You never attempt to bring a duplicate into play.

mplain Thanks for the clarification. Very grateful.

May I ask then how it is that the game checks the dead pile and not the board? Genuine question, is there something in the rules that states that? Absolutely loving the game but the rules are definitely quite difficult to interpret as a beginner when it comes to stuff like this.

Thanks for your answer.



#11
ktom

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May I ask then how it is that the game checks the dead pile and not the board? Genuine question, is there something in the rules that states that? 

 

It ultimately checks both. It's just that in the example mplain is giving, since the check of the dead pile fails ("there's another copy of the unique card, by title, in the dead pile, so you cannot marshal the card at all"), the results of the check of the board don't matter. Sure, the check of the board would technically come up as "there's another copy of the unique card, by title, in play, so this card can only be marshaled as a dupe," but that doesn't stop the "you cannot marshal the card at all since there is a copy in the dead pile" from being true.

 

It's worth noting that this issue has been addressed directly in the Official FAQ from FFG (p. 2, Sec. 1.2):

"A player cannot bring a unique card into play as a duplicate if another copy of that unique card is in his or her dead pile."



#12
hypernexus

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Ktom and mplain

 

Thanks very much. I missed that in the official FAQ. Thanks for clarfying.



#13
mplain

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A player may use additional copies, by title, of any unique card (indicated by a "[unique]" symbol in its title) he or she owns and controls in play as duplicates. When a card enters play as a duplicate, it is placed faceup, overlapped by (i.e. partially visible beneath) the copy of the card that was already in play.

 

Admittedly, this wording is not very clear. The official interpretation (as evidenced by the FAQ entry provided above by ktom) is that you attempt to bring a card into play as normal, but the result of this attempt is that it enters play as a duplicate. Therefore, you check play restrictions for bringing a card into play as normal. This applies to both marshaling cards, and putting them into play via card abilities.

 

Compare this to Doomtown: Reloaded, where the rules for Experienced characters state:

"As a Noon play, you can replace your dude card in play with a different version of that dude from your hand".

This special play is different from the regular Shoppin' play (Doomtown analogue of Marshaling), and you can only "level up" a dude by using this special play, not by any card effects (i.e. you cannot use a card effect that says "Put a dude into play from your dead pile" to replace a dude in play with a different version of that dude).

 

To sum it all up, in Thrones you attempt to bring a unique card into play as normal, checking all play restrictions, but then it enters play as a duplicate (and doesn't trigger any "When a character enters play..." abilities).



#14
Hartnetto

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Hello guys,

 

Can I play character "Action: ..." as many times as I want (if other was not described in the card.)?

Or I can play "Action:..." of one character one once because action window will close after using it once?



#15
mplain

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You can use Action abilities as many times as you want, provided that you can pay costs, and that there's no limit mentioned on the card.

 

After you use an Action ability, you pass priority to your opponent, so that s/he can perform an Action or pass. Then, priority goes back to you, and you can use an Action ability again. So, you cannot use Actions many times in a row, after each Action you must give your opponent a chance to do something too.


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#16
Hartnetto

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You can use Action abilities as many times as you want, provided that you can pay costs, and that there's no limit mentioned on the card.

 

After you use an Action ability, you pass priority to your opponent, so that s/he can perform an Action or pass. Then, priority goes back to you, and you can use an Action ability again. So, you cannot use Actions many times in a row, after each Action you must give your opponent a chance to do something too.

That's what I wanted to hear. Thanks a lot)))



#17
mplain

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Pending questions:

1) Multiple terminal burn effects

- If a 5 STR character is affected by Dracarys! and Blood of the Dragon, is one Risen from the Sea enough to save it, or do you need two Risens because two separate "kill if STR is 0" effects apply?

 

2) Podrick Payne -vs- Arianne Martell

- Podrick Payne's ability resolves even if he enters play as a duplicate. On contrast, Arianne Martell's post-Then effect does not resolve if the character that she puts into play enters as a duplicate. So a cost is considered to be paid, but a pre-Then effect is not considered to be "successfully resolved in full". Would like clarifications on what constitutes "preventing a cost", and how self-referential text works if the card enters play as a duplicate (without any title). (see Costs, The word "Then", Duplicates)

3) Summer Harvest + Varys's Riddle + Underground Vault

- Can the Riddle's controller choose X=2 when the opponent collects income, then choose X=7 when the Riddle's controller triggers Underground Vault? (see Nate's official ruling)

 

4) Maester Aemon (WotW)

- Being a "winning opponent" doesn't necessarily mean that the opponent loses as a defender (you can win as the defending player, and won't have to satisfy claim). This card probably deserves at least a clarification in the FAQ.

5) Mace Tyrell

 

6) Players choices

- How much information about "player choices" is made public before a an ability can be cancelled? Choosing targets, Tyrion Lannister (LoCR)'s "choose one" ability, a card that would be put into play - these need to be announced beforehand. What about cards like Tears of Lys and Ghaston Grey - does your opponent get to know which character you want to put a poison token on / return to hand, before he decides whether to cancel the ability?

7) "Considered to be attacking"

 

8) Timing of constant abilities, interrupts, and reactions

 

9) Follow-up to the Quentyn+Dracarys ruling
- Does Quentyn's ability trigger before any effect would kill him? We know it triggers if Dracarys would kill him, but what if Quentyn was as 5 STR (thanks to his ability), Dracarys was played, and then Dragon Sight or Nightmares were played - would it trigger before those effects resolve?

- How does the ruling work with constant abilities, e.g. Blood of the Dragon, Crown of Gold, Daenerys Targaryen? Does Quentyn's ability trigger before BotD/Crown enters play at all? Or after the card enters play but before its ability applies?

10) Vaes Tolorro

- This card implies that the Quentyn+Dracarys ruling was not originally supposed to work that way. Possible reversal?

11) Timing priority

 

12) Desmera Redwyne