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Tech Talk - Whirlpool

Android: Netrunner Tech Talk Scud

Welcome back to Tech Talk. We’re going to keep at this whole deckbuilding thing by taking a crack at whipping up a Jinteki deck using the brand-new love-it or leave-it ICE, Whirlpool.

Ah, Whirlpool. Every Jinteki player’s eyeballs popped out of their heads when they first saw the card. “Here it is,” the exclaimed, “the holiest of holies, the grail from which my Jinteki deck will drink and become immortal! I’mma gonna make someone run into Bullfrog and jump ‘em over to a six-advanced Project Junebug installed over a Hokusai Grid! Or, or, or… Yeah, I’m funna make some poor schlub Runner slowly, inexorably make his way down a long tunnel of Neural Katanas right into an Edge of World. Boom boom boom! Slice and also dice! Flatlines for everyone!”

The reality of the situation, of course, is that Whirlpool ain’t gonna be that easy to use. First off, it requires being in the correct position, so a Whirlpool in your opening hand is going to disappoint.

Second, it requires a fair bit of skill to use effectively. No Runner worth his salt is going to just run blind into a tower of Jinteki ICE now that Whirlpool is a possibility. You may be able to train your opponents (i.e. bluff them) into running on an Edge of World, but you’re probably going to have to put yourself in a hole in order to do so, a hole that will be your grave if they figure out what you’re up to.

So, if you are very seldom going to get that big, fat kill off a single Whirlpool, then what the heck should you be doing with it?

Killing the Runner by degrees. Chipping away at them, slowing them down, softening them up, and then either winning by Agendas or flatlining them when they are desperate. It’s very similar to the way that we feel Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) should be played – put it behind one or two pieces of ICE so that they waste a click running and you get to ding them, wearing them down little by little.

However, we still want the threat of flatlining to be very real. And, since Jinteki has the worst mix of in-house Agendas in terms of cost-to-points (one 3-for-2, one 4-for-2 with a great ability, and one 5-for-2 that doubles as an Ambush), flatlining should be something we are actively trying to do. The problem is that, as soon as you put a Jinteki ID down on the table, the Runner is watching for tricksy Net damage. By being known as the Corporation of deception and mind-games, Jinteki actually has a harder time fooling the Runner. So, we need to add an element of surprise that feeds into the idea of flatlining the Runner…

And to us here at Tech Talk, that can only mean Scorched Earth (Core). Runners will often be more casual about tags against a Jinteki deck. They’ll still clear them, but sometimes they may let a tag ride a turn, counting on you’re not having much with which to punish them. We can even maintain the surprise in light of playing ICE like Hunter, since Hunter (Core) behind a Chum (Core) is a pretty standard early-game combo for Jinteki (a super-cheap 6-Strength Sentry that can now cause three Net damage).

With that basic premise in mind, we’ll set about building a Jinteki deck. We’ll use the original flavor Personal Evolution ID in order to keep with the damage theme.

First let’s get some ICE picked out. We know we’re using Whirlpool, since it’s the focus of this week’s article, but we don’t actually want to treat it as ICE, we want to think of it as a trap, an Ambush like Project Junebug or Snare! As we stated up top, we’re not going to be trying to build a single server of doom hoping to lock the Runner into running all the way down it and into some ridiculousness. Instead, we’re going to be playing a bit of a shell game and using Whirlpool to force the Runner to deal with the things we want them to deal with (most likely Traces for tags). Whirlpool in front of Chum and Hunter. Whirlpool in front of Neural Katana (Core) and Edge of World when the Runner isn’t prepped. That kind of thing. Also, Whirlpool can be used as a deterrent. Runners will be wary of hitting one, so they may be using Snitch or other expose effects to check out what they might be running into. If they see a Whirlpool, they may hold off running on that server, assuming you’re trying to, you know, kill them. Why not use that paranoia to install and score an Agenda behind one?

So, back to ICE – We’ll grab a three-pack of Neural Katana, since damage is our game and it’s a nice piece of ICE in the early game. Chum and Hunter are no-brainers for what we’re trying to do, since the combo can pretty reliably cause some damage in the early game and then possibly stick a tag or two in the mid- and late-game (Runner will usually break Chum and then walk through Hunter against Jinteki, if they think you can’t capitalize on the tags). In the same vein, we’ll grab a couple copies of Shadow (Core), since it’s ability to be advanced will seem like the reason we’ve included it, hopefully not cluing the Runner into the fact that we’re trying to land tags in addition to dinging them with Net damage (ah, subterfuge about our subterfuge, does it get any more Jinteki-y?). If we want to stick tags AND play mind games, there’s nothing better than Data Raven (Core). Including it will definitely make the Runner scratch her head but it may actually tip our hand a bit too strongly – you don’t play Data raven unless you care about tags. We’ll want to be careful about when and where we play it but the paranoia it can cause in the Runner shouldn’t be undervalued. Since we’re planning on playing more horizontally than vertically, we’re going to want less ICE than the norm, but we should probably pack something that can actually stop the Runner. To that end, we’ll include two copies of Wall of Static and one Wall of Thorns.

With so little ICE, the Runner will be making a lot of successful runs, probably on our Centrals. While we can trust in Snare! (of which we’ll pack three copies) and our passive Corp ability to make them pay for Maker’s Eye/Medium and/or Nerve Agent/HQ Interface, we’ll also pack a couple copies of Hokusai Grid (Humanity's Shadow) in order to ding them for dinging us. Remember, the river wears away the mountain over time.

We’ll need economy. The standard Hedge Fund trio will do us well. In addition, we’ll pack Private Contracts over Melange Mining Company, since our remotes will be, for the most part, naked. Luckily, we don’t need a ton of credits, so hopefully, we’ll be okay.

As far as other Assets go, we’ll want Project Junebug and Edge of World. It looks like we won’t have room for Trick of Light (and honestly, we’re pretty cash-strapped, so advancing ICE now to score later probably isn’t in our best interests), so Junebugs will most likely never get higher than one or two Advancements. We’ll want to leave naked Agendas out with an Advancement or two in order to tempt the Runner into our traps. You need nerves of steel to run this kind of Jinteki deck, but man is it fun.

Our Agenda mix is pretty set: three copies of each in-house Agenda leaves us two Agenda Points short, so we’ll grab a Private Security Force. PSF works well with our tagging plan and playing all 2-pointers means the Runner needs to steal four Agendas to win.

We’re not going to hesitate to use Fetal AI as a trap, by the way. Three Net damage and two credits to steal it is a pretty good trade-off for the two points the Runner gets. If you’re going to be reckless with Agendas, try to make sure it’s a Fetal AI.

To round things out, we’ll take two copies of Scorched Earth (since it’s the chewy candy center of the deck) and three copies of Neural EMP. The two of those go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly in this deck. The combo is why you want to try to have an Agenda advanced but unscored on the table every once in a while. Socrched Earth, Neural EMP, Neural EMP, score Agenda, good game. It won’t happen often, but usually one SE and one Neural EMP are enough to seal the deal.

So, here’s the wacky deck we’re gonna try out:


Fatal Caligraphy
Deck Built with the Android: Netrunner Deckbuilder


Identity:
Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core)

Total Cards: 49

Agenda (10)
Braintrust (What Lies Ahead) x3
Fetal AI (Trace Amount) x3
Nisei MK II (Core) x3
Private Security Force (Core) x1

Asset (10)
Project Junebug (Core) x3
Snare! (Core) x3
Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus) x2
Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) x2

ICE (19)
Neural Katana (Core) x3
Chum (Core) x2
Hunter (Core) x3
Data Raven (Core) x2 â– â– 
Shadow (Core) x3 â– 
Whirlpool (Humanity's Shadow) x3
Wall of Thorns (Core) x1
Wall of Static (Core) x2

Operation (8)
Neural EMP (Core) x3
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Scorched Earth (Core) x2 â– â– â– â– 

Upgrade (2)
Hokusai Grid (Humanity's Shadow) x2


Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals –
Haas-Bioroid: 0
Jinteki: 38
NBN: 4
The Weyland Consortium: 11

A word of warning: This deck is all theory at this point. It is completely untested. It is built on the chassis of an older, pre-Humanity’s Shadow Jinteki deck that did fairly well, but who knows.

HOWEVER, this was done ON PURPOSE. It’s something new we’re trying out here at the old Tech Talk ranch. You see, Tech Talk will be going bi-weekly for a while (actually, it already has, if you hadn’t noticed) but this will give all you Tech-Heads (as we call you here at Tech Talk HQ) something to do between articles. Go out and try this deck. Don’t just take a look and declare it crap, actually take some time and play with it. One game or fifty, we don’t care, just try it out and come back here to the comments to tell us what you think, how it can be tweaked, if it needs to be scrapped, whatever, but take the time to try it out and let’s learn from it together.

Okay, enough Hippie crap. Get out there and flatline some Runners!
  • Lluluien and gooRu like this


23 Comments

Your biggest mistake in creating this deck was writting an article about it. Now I know to not throw away my Carapace when I sit down to play against your Jinteki deck. ;)
    • SquarePegIX likes this
I would say there's not nearly enough money in this deck, but then you say we're not supposed to count whirlpool as ice, so that leaves you with 16 pieces of "real" ice, which you very well may be able to pay for...

I actually think you have to abuse the runner's fear of Neural Katana early game and have an aggressive remote. Clicking melange furiously, for example.
@Sieben: Try the deck out. I used to play a version of this and it worked. It wasn't the "best" Corp deck, but it routinely won and, more importantly, was a lot of fun to play.
@Sieben: Sorry, got cut off mid-comment by baby-freak-out. Anyway, while I'd love to hear your thoughts after you've tried the deck a couple times, I have to agree that money is the thing I'm most worried about with the deck as-is on paper. I don't agree that Melange is the best source of income for a deck like this (it's still good) - I'd rather see a few PAD/Adonis Campaigns and/or Marked Accounts, since they give you additional remotes, pay out for "free" turn after turn, and slow the Runner down a bit if they stop to trash them. That'll probably be my first tweak.
Well I tried it 2x on OCTGN and I was supposed to lose but I won both times 10-2 because my two opponents were scrubs.

Both games I had absolutely no money. Don't think I ever rezzed more than 1 piece of ice on my remote.

They would have won if they had just hit R&D harder. An anarch would destroy this deck because there's not a lot of ice, and the ice is very weak against their breakers, and easy to trash. No matter how much money you have... So that's at least two problems.
Case in point against femmosaurus: It's really cute when you target my shadow because you haven't run because you're afraid of katana.

I keep telling my friends that they cannot consistently invest Femme efficiently if its their only sentry breaker. But they just keep chasin' that dream of femme --> tollbooth.
    • Paddosan likes this
If you only had one Remote, then you aren't doing it right. Install aggressively, split the runner's focus. ICE is for Centrals and the occasional trap set-up. A typical turn three or four sees a deck like this with 4 or 5 Remotes.
And, yes, that means you may install a Snare! to the table.
Having 4 pieces of ice on a remote really raises the stakes. Not just with EOTW (though that is too funny), but with any other trap. You have to make them PAY to see traps. Otherwise it's a lousy trade. I've been over this with Hraklea.

Example:

You spend your whole turn putting down a junebug. The runner runs, and loses 4 cards. In other words, 1 turn's worth of actions. But you lost more than a turn's worth of actions.

Even if you think that's a good trade for the corp, it's still not a junebug 100% of the time. If it's a junebug 25% of the time (since 3 junebugs to 10 agendas), then it's really a good deal to run on a card with 2 advancement tokens. Similar calculus with snare.

The traps are balanced around the runner paying something to see them.
In theory, your deck and mine are almost identical. I figured Data Raven would be too obvious though, so instead I have two Tollbooths, and only one SE. Econ is hard to come by with 3 Private Contracts and 2 Melange, but at the same token the runner is slowed down trying to draw. I have 24 ice in my deck (as Sieb would say, 15 "real" ice (3 Chums, 3 Whirlpools, 3 Data Mines)).

One potential issue with your deck, if it's anything like mine, is the ratio of agendas and assets to ice. I actually had two games out of about six where I started with 5 agendas, and the other games I would have at least two agendas and often no applicable early game ice. I increased my deck size to 54 and loaded up with ice to marginalize this issue, which has worked to an extent.

One thing I have found to be extremely good with my deck, however, is the inclusion of two Archers and one Aggressive Secretary. The issue with Jinteki apart from econ and ice with stopping power, has been late game. With this, my early game has been as effective as late game. I would also recommend you reconsider your stance on Trick of Light, as there have been instances that they knew I had an advanced trap and I had no way of scoring an agenda without scoring out of hand.

I believe our decks could use a bit of tweaking, but for the most part, they have a strong foundation and are a hell of a lot of fun to play.

I've been over this with Hraklea. [...] The traps are balanced around the runner paying something to see them.


And I still think you're wrong. :)
I also have no idea what whirlpools are for because they've already decided they want to run on a remote when they hit it. I mean, it's good if they were planning to jack out if I didn't fall below 3 credits for EOTW, but that's a pretty desperate and transparent play, so you just respond by not rezzing ice on them and there's no problem/you don't need whirlpool.

If it had been a data mine I would have been able to EMP the runner a couple times. But again these are not strong players...

I also have no idea what whirlpools are for because they've already decided they want to run on a remote when they hit it. ... But again these are not strong players...

This was my quandary when trying to figure out how to best use Whirlpool, and this is precisely why it's not THAT great by any means.

Against good players, I've found that if I place a trap behind a couple pieces of ice, they'll run it, but won't access if I don't rez anything because it's rather obvious. I won't rez because either I lack the econ to do so and activate my trap, or more often, the ice would scare them off (Chum, Data Raven, etc) or would end their run, making the trap pointless.

It makes Chum, Bullfrog, and Cell Portal good against players that don't have a full rig up, though I don't run the latter two ice since the former is far too situational and unreliable, and the latter is too expensive for Jinteki's current econ to handle.

It helps Jinteki's other identity in that the runner can't just run the first piece of ice then jack out, though this would only really be useful if there is no rezzed ice with ETR and you don't mind them accessing anything in your hand. Such a tactic has potential to both drain their econ and their grip.

And finally, it helps against miscellaneous situations, such as forcing them to take a tag through Data Raven (then forcing an ETR through Nisei? :D). As aforementioned, Whirlpool isn't fantastic, but if played strategically, it can help the corp mislead the runner and get half a step closer to victory.
I'd swap 2 Braintrusts for 2 Private Security Forces in this deck to drive home the tag punishment.
Whirlpool into Data Raven isn't good cause they can end the run before taking a tag.

Whirlpool is also very good with Replicating Perfection. If you run HB Ice that sucks clicks to break you can load that 1 or 2 deep on your centrals, forcing the runner to face-check your ice before hitting remotes. You can then drop a whirl pool infront of the central and force the runner to plow through your double ichi or hourglass -> ichi set up. Even if they can break it all, they may then be too broke (o out of clicks) to then access your remotes. In such a deck you have a lot of remotes down, and the remotes all have 0 to 1 piece of ice each (maybe one server has 2 ice, but that's only if your centrals are all well protected already).

Whirl pool also has another use, as jinteki you can also try the strategy of installing ice but not rezing it until the mid-game. It takes a lot of balls to play this way, but the net effect is that it makes edge of world more effective (since it counts ice rezed or not, the way i interpret the card), but more importantly you can set up some kind of pain-chain with a stacked remote and only activate it once you have the right sequence down. If you have a simple static wall at the bottom-end of it rezed from the start it can also be a good place to build up some initial cards and force the runner to break a little.

If you have 3 or so unrezed ice, and you have been saving money (I actually like to run some econ ice in jinteki lately, like shadow and/or popups), droppping one akitaro onto your chain of doom and then rezing first a whirlpool before all the other ice can be great if you were able to hold-out on the placements for long enough. Cards like Archer are indeed great splashes too, but Jinteki suffers from major influence shortage all the time because their Ice needs influence, you often need some influence for economy, and then you'd love some hg/weyland operations/upgrades but you just don't have the influence points to do it all.

Whirlpool will be a great card to splash in HB decks BTW. Haven't seen it talked about too much, but a double-stack of Ichi with a whirlpool above it can lead to a world of pain. The threat of it will do wonders.

The net effect is that Runners are likely to run a bit more often Crypsis and Snitch. They key then is to try and use that knowledge to your advantage. Crypsis doesn't like needing to break many pieces of Ice in a single turn, snitch takes up an MU and sets them back economically a bit. Snitch is just generally annoying unless and until Corp has some way to reduce the MU of the runner so that cards like Snitch are harder to justify in their rig (or just a flat-out program trashing card that doesn't require Ice interaction because Snitch jacks you out before you can trash snitch...).
Another use of Whirlpool with Bullfrog that I haven't heard mentioned is that you can forgo trick of light and instead play mind games with the runner. If your 2-advanced junebug isn't run against, just advance it later on again to 4 or 5. The runner probably won't run it at this higher number either (cause it can flat line them outright). If you can pull off a whirlpool to toad you can dump them off on the pumped junebug. I know this is not easy to do, there are a lot of "IF" scenarios, but statistically this opportunity and possibility is not nil and it will keep runners on their toes. Future Proof will also add a new Jinteki card that wants to hover at 4 advancements. If you never advance your Junebug to 4 tokens the runner will always assume that a 4 advanced card is a loaded death-blade, so pumping your junebugs to 4 and then using the threat of a frog-drop of death can be an indirect way to prevent them from running on your ronins. Pumping your junebugs to 4 may also be an indirect way to make the runner pay for trying to reveal your ronins. All it takes is two charged ronins and you can flat line the runner... (where the corp gets the money to do all this, i have no idea... they need cards that give them free advancements like weyland, or other ingenious cost-saving cards to help their economy like "gain 1 credit for every advancement token on an asset or agenda card... etc)
Ah yeah they can "end the run" via data raven, because Whirlpool only stops them from jacking out, but data raven gives them an ETR option via card text.

Really though, traps are lousy without ice. They're designed this way. If the expected value of running on an asset were ever negative, it would mean automatic corp victory.
Thanks for posting this. It looks like a fun play with a lot of dynamic and deadly combinations for the runner living on the edge of their seat. With just 5 cards, all of which get trashed, it looks like it may be a bit weak on economy - as you suggested above. But that being said, you do have a lot of fairly cheap ice. Maybe it balances out.
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BtrLuckyThanGood
May 09 2013 05:18 AM
Well I kind of wanted to keep this close to the chest since non of you have pointed it out yet but I may as well say why I think Whirlpool is amazing. Splashing Matrix Analyzer. All you need is Matrix behind a whirlpool and then anytime you install advance/advance the runner has to be very careful. Play the mind game to score agendas. I have played a game where I had 2 matrix analyzers in front of a remote and a 1 advanced Priority Req. He ran and I used both to advance and he chickened out. I then scored it my next turn with the bluff. Lots of possibilities with Matrix and Whirlpool
But... if you had whirlpool in front of your matrix analyzers, he wouldn't have been able to chicken out and would have stolen your agenda after all. Or do you mean if you had a Junebug there instead, now it's got 2 more counters and he can't jack out?
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BtrLuckyThanGood
May 10 2013 05:49 AM
well the first time he runs that server he won't know it's a whirlpool hopefully, that's when you have a trap. and once it's known it's a whirlpool the same mind games still apply, he just has to be absolutely certain before he even starts the run. this is probably a bit better for you because once he has chosen you don't then have to advance to try and bluff because he can't jack out anyway. However if he chose wrong you can advance and punish more. It is a little different than just having a Matrix and no whirlpool though.
Whirlpool trashes itself when the sub fires.
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BtrLuckyThanGood
May 11 2013 03:21 AM
yep, dont' know how I missed that haha.