Card Game DB
Sign In
Create Account
Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
0
A Pleasant Problem: Tough Choices at the High End of the Curve, by 14Shirt
Mar 11 2016 03:00 AM |
scantrell24
in Articles
Travis Pinter (14Shirt) is that guy you’ve seen at tournaments without realizing it. He's been playing AGOT since 2012, is a wolf at heart, and always tries to keep his sense of humor even in the midst of a humiliating defeat. A few months ago, Stark loyalists didn’t have much cause for celebration in Second Edition. A perusal of tournament results and winning lists reveals that Stark struggled early on, and saw more success as a Banner faction than as a Main faction. Recently however, there was a shift as Stark builds, especially Fealty, gained much-needed toys in the form of the Winterfell Kennel Master, Ser Roderick Cassel, and Lady. Thankfully, this is only the beginning of the uptick for Stark, as their upcoming deluxe expansion, Wolves of the North, packs some real high-end weapons.
When Wolves of the North releases, Stark will boast multiple expensive, heavy-hitting characters. Why is this noteworthy? Well , you won’t be able play them all, at least not effectively, no matter how many economy plots you’re packing. You know what they say about "too much of a good thing"!
First edition veterans know all about tough choices at the high-end of the cost curve, but new second edition players have yet to experience this complex aspect of deckbuilding. So far, the usual decision at the high-end is between a 7-coster or a second 5 or 6-coster instead. For example, A Stark Lion deck might skip Eddard to run Jaime and Tyrion. Soon, there will be an addition layer, between Eddard A, Eddard B, or no Eddard at all, and these choices will become central to any deck-building strategy, perhaps even one of the first things you must decide.
First, let's clear up the rules regarding multiple versions of unique characters. As a deckbuilding restriction, you can run 3 copies of any given card. If the card is a unique, you are allowed a maximum of 3 copies of that unique card by name (i.e. Eddard Stark), regardless of which Eddard Stark (there will soon be two different ones) you’re using. You may use both versions of Eddard, in any combination, up to 3 total cards. Note that in this case, once you marshal Eddard A, if you draw Eddard B, you cannot switch them. Eddard B could only be played as a blank duplicate.
So let’s get back to Stark and its high-end arsenal. Once the box hits, the options at six cost and up will be (at least): Robb Stark (Core), Ser Roderick Cassel (TKP), The Blackfish (WotN), Eddard Stark (WotN), Eddard Stark (Core), Catelyn Stark (WotN), and King Robb’s Host (WotN). Let’s take a look at them.
Robb Stark (Core)
The staple of any current Stark Fealty build worth its salt, “Standing Robb" is an efficient renown character that synergizes with Grey Wind and Sansa. It will be a difficult task to find builds that won’t include him, but not impossible.
Ser Rodrik Cassel (Westeros)
Hot Rod is a steady source of draw in a faction that desperately needs it, and as such, has become a staple recently as well. Naysayers will lament that you may have to overcommit to reap the full benefits here, but I personally call sending in more than one Stark on a military challenge a party, not over-committing. This guy is great for burst draw (i.e. 3 cards) and not nearly as difficult to trigger since Winterfell Kennel Master and Lady exist and can pull in even non-military characters. He will henceforth, I suspect, draw direct comparisons with the upcoming Blackfish due to obvious similarities. The first difficult cut decision may likely exist between these two studs.
The Blackfish (Wolves of the North)
The Blackfish is Erick Butzlaff’s evil genius, which was originally released in first edition, and he's loaded with potential synergies. The previous iteration rarely survived long enough to accumulate power and activate his ability, but now characters have greater staying power (thanks to duplicates and the absence of a board wipe plot). Furthermore, nifty tricks such as Lady Sansa’s Rose (and several others in the upcoming Stark box) can accelerate the activation clock.
As both are loyal Knights with card draw abilities, it's only natural to compare the Blackfish to Ser Hot Rod. Blackfish triggers with less effort, but the result is less explosive. Both are great cards, so you can't go wrong with either, but the Renown and non-kneeling potential on Blackfish makes him particularly attractive.
Eddard Stark (Wolves of the North)
This new version of the venerable Stark patriarch costs one less gold dragon, so in the same price range, but with very different effects. Both cards will be evergreen (Core and deluxe boxes don't rotate like chapter packs do), so the designers gave us two viable options going forward, depending on your deck type. “Fast Eddie†is somewhat like the first edition “double-renown†Robert Baratheon in that you’re getting 2 power when claiming renown. Ed’s ability to put the power on another character, however, synergizes nicely with The Blackfish and new Catelyn, for starters. Fast Eddie will appear in rush builds for quite some time, and he's non-loyal again, so anything is possible.
Eddard Stark (Core)
The core set Eddard Stark can be a real beast on defense, although I have to admit his cost keeps him out of my latest Stark builds in favor of a second sixer (i.e. Roderick with Robb). When more good six-gold characters become available, will this Eddard see even less play? Probably so unless Stark gains access to more "voltron" tools that suite this Eddard, such as stealth-granting, icon-granting, or strength-pumping.
Catelyn Stark (Wolves of the North)
Of all the new heavy hitters, I believe the seven-gold Catelyn will see the least play. This isn’t due to any flaw in the card’s design. I think in the right build it could get some scary strength quickly. The reason this Cat will suffer from sticker shock is because her other evergreen counterpart, core set Catelyn, is only 4 gold and arguably one of the best cards in the entire pool. I’m curious to see how many other, if any, unique characters will receive such a big cost spread between versions. Because it makes it very difficult to find room for this Catelyn when the other exists for 3-gold less. I could see a seven-cost Cersei unveiled in the eventual Lannister boxset, but I believe there’s room there to make that card a big enough wow-factor to warrant playing it over the current one. Core set Cate, however, has left little room between her and the ceiling.
King Robb’s Host (Wolves of the North)
It’s only fitting that the house of the former “Army Robb†of first edition should get the first 8-cost monster army, and it’s a doozy at 8 strength. With minimal options for reducing this bad boy's cost, the Host may necessitate plot deck choices that incorporate an extra economy plot, or even a plot you wouldn’t even normally run like Marching Orders. But the trade-off may be worth it. Moving a power (or two) from faction cards to characters allows for power acceleration, but also shenanigans like powering up the Blackfish or Catelyn.
Robb Stark (War of Five Kings)
This card is still a ways off, as it comes in the first pack of the next cycle, but it's relevant here. King Robb certainly looks strong on paper. Being able to remove a character during mid-challenge is a very prominent middle finger to your opponent’s planning. Couple this with Winterfell Kennel Master and you can envision scenarios where just about the whole field is fair game to jump in or out of a challenge. That look on Robb’s face while he sits the throne? That’s him trying to do the combat math.
All things considered, it’s a helluva time to be a Stark player, and for that matter, a Thrones player. The more big options that hit the card pool, the more complex deckbuilding becomes and the more varied our decks become from each other. Personally, I can’t wait.
I appreciate any and all feedback on this topic in the comments section.
- WWDrakey, PopePwnage, theamazingmrg and 12 others like this
17 Comments
Thanks for the read
Yeah, I don't think the new Catelyn will see much play because the core version is just so good. I think core Eddard will almost never see play once the new one is out. I personally would choose Brynden over Rodrik (if I had to choose) because of his renown, his Lord trait, maybe his Tully trait, his draw ability (let's face it, drawing even just one card is good) and his other non-kneeling ability, even though it may not be that easy to activate.
I also think the same thing about Cersei. I think there will be a Cersei coming that will have exactly the same stats as the new Catelyn and will (hopefully) be non-kneeling during intrigue challenges as an attacker.
Thanks a lot for this article. Great read!!!!
New Robb looks like Jaromir Jagr [NHL]
Stark power rush is looking better and better!
Great article! Excellent predictions here for some expensive wolf cards. Thanks for sharing!
It's funny just how much "Hot Rod" has changed Stark fealty. A 4 strength bicon with Insight is already decent, especially in a faction that has had pretty bad in-house draw options previously. Giving Insight to other characters, helps cover the slight over-costing.
Your article is great for highlighting some really tough decisions we're going to have to make, and that's only with a handful of spoiled cards. I imagine we're going to be having some fun with this house when this box drops.
I think that 2 months should be enough to try most of possibilities of the deluxe box. I would welcome if we had no chapter packs in that time to fully explore it and not to be flooded with much more cards.
The Host artwork is just stunning. Wow.
Better to have touch choices than no choices.
Indeed! Jedrusek.
I personally expect this Catelyn to be better than you're giving her credit for, even with the competition from the 4-cost version. Simply put, she's the first power-sink card for Stark that has an intrigue icon to protect from Tears, and also will be almost impossible to burn (even the 4-cost version is vulnerable to, say, Crown of Gold). Compared to the likes of Robb, Eddard and Blackfish, you may find she sticks around a lot more. And when those others die? Well, more power for her.
Not to say that she'll be in every deck or anything, but I do think it'll be a slightly larger split between the core and Wolves versions than you imply.
Overall though, great article!
I wouldn't mind being proven wrong on it, but it's difficult to envision not running the current Cat. I see your point about burn, though. I guess we'll see. Thanks for the feedback!
I had the same thought when reading this.
Catelyn is something we haven't seen much of yet, in more ways than one:
- She's an indirect power-gain engine that doesn't require Challenge victories to push for the win. All the existing ones (Sansa, Benjen, Boneway, Wall, Joffrey) in this bracket have found some nice leverage in 2.0 so far. On the side, this also means, that she's the least susceptible to being Controlled.
- As JC stated, she'll quickly be the largest STR Stark character on the table in almost any game. Hence, the best anti-Burn solution.
- The different icon configuration at the top end allows for more flexibility in your build.
- As Jon Snow seems purpose-built to make Core Robb Stark stand your whole board every round, Catelyn feels like the perfect second main there, as those same Jon triggers will also feed you a constant stream of power... and STR. So, you're not just changing long-term board position to short term, but also to direct movement towards your end goal, and a big beefy character to take advantage of Robb's stand.
That said, it feels like the competition will be stiff, and a lot will depend on which deck types get the most support (as each will want different mains)... but I would also rate Catelyn's longevity and chances somewhat higher.
Anyway, an excellent read.
Not sure if it's viable, but Stark/Lion with Joff could net 5 power off a Wildfire with the right board. That's gotta be an amusing way to win, if nothing else.
I love 2.0 Starks (far more than 1.0, who were a bit boring). Their whole toolkit is much more interesting to build around and play with. After playing them in a recent SC though, I am concerned at the sheer number of moving parts needed for the deck to be successful!
They need Kennel Master to screw with the challenge maths.
They need Lady (and soon Nymeria) to make the Kennel Master work.
They need Rod (and Luwin) for draw.
They need Cat for shenanigans protection.
They need Robb to stand everyone.
They need Grey Wind (or soon to be Jon) to make sure Robb can trigger.
Arya is their only source of Stealth so Syrio is really useful too.
And Kennel Master (and the new plot) require participating Stark characters before they're of any use, so their lack of non-unique Intrigue icons really hurts!
The in-faction synergy is immense, but they're a difficult faction to play and I can't see that changing with the Wolves of the North release.
Still, great article. And it's a great time to be a Wolf!
"That look on Robb’s face while he sits the throne? That’s him trying to do the combat math."
XD
Your comment made Robb´s artwork, which I didn´t really like at first glance, quite enjoyable after all.
I'm very fond of your analysis here, which I haven't seen elucidated elsewhere. I truly enjoy playing these Starks because there is elegance there that takes some finessing, tough choices, etc. I agree wholeheartedly that it is not as simple as "drop these pieces in place and watch it go." The increasing success we're seeing in Stark Fealty (Cameron Davisson himself has skewed the data already with 3 straight undefeated SC runs) is also tempered with this fact. I think it speaks to the balance the designers have created here. Stark Fealty, at least right now, will not dominate the meta. But in the hands of a skilled player with a bit of luck, it sure as hell can dominate a tournament.