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2 Champs and a Chump- Episode 113

2 Champs and a Chump 2C1C Kennon Podcast

Episode 113- Cast: Will and Greg. So what's the deal with The Long Voyage and Black Sails? Also Breaking News. Music: Josh Woodward, Celestial Aeon Project, and Manuel Gertrudix


Anti TLV tech:

I actually agree on Combo (and I wrote the TLV stats article). I particularly think Combo is strengthened as the natural counter to aggro, which is being empowered by TLV (and compounded by Negotiations), and that the high variance of TLV will eventually prove to be its downfall. I think combo is the best answer, and with spoiled cards like Desperate Measures, it may actually be seeing some of the support it needs to be a good archetype!

But in a more specific sense, there are cards that are quite effective against TLV:
Against it you can include KoW, No-Draw Stannis, Seal of the Crown, For R'hllor. You can run Rotten Bastard. You level the playing field, leaving them with a less-efficient deck (and you can use smugglers, black sails, and other non-draw card advantage to help)

You can focus on choke, which doesn't limit the TLV player's choices (he still draws as many), but how much he can actually press that card advantage. Even just a FoW or Blockade can help you, and in combination with Preston Greenfield can help deprive your opponent of options.

You can outdraw them; draw is better and more efficient in non-TLV over TLV. If you're drawing 3 cards (2+1) from your 60 card deck to their 4 (3+1) from their 85, you're gaining more relative efficiency.

You can run Threat from the East (I wish it weren't restricted), or, perhaps, Counting Favors - again to level the playing field.

FInally... wait a little while for the "Cards at Your Command" mechanic; if the spoiled plot "Rally Cry" is anything to go on, there might be some serious downsides to having additional cards at your command - especially if they're sup-par cards to fill an 85 card deck.
    • WWDrakey, darknoj and Ire like this
Another great podcast guys, thoroughly look forward to each one, and finally stopped being lazy and bought something from your store. Keep up the great work!

@istaril.. great write up and I agree with your viewpoints, you would be a great person to chat with about deck building. hopefully get that opportunity at some point...

I would alter one sentence though, should read: empowered by Negotiations (and compounded by TLV). Negotiations nets you ~4 cards.. So it takes TLV 4 turns to accomplish this same task. If your opponent takes advantage of it as well, they are still doing so on your terms, and you are making them play your game now. The fact it is also 2 claim is just silly. It is a must restrict card, and you simply can not say that about TLV. I wish more time and conversation would be devoted to this point.

One other thing.. I can guarantee every TLV deck that has done well had Negotiations in its plot deck. I would love to see plot deck information tracked in the tournament reports. More so than any other aspect of this game, your plot deck is the biggest differentiator between this and other games. Much more time should go into its discussion, opportunities and ramifications.
Actually, there are some Regionals that have been won with TLV that did not run Negotiations. Not that you don't have a point, TLV with Negotiations is crazy powerful.
On your opponent shuffling your deck: coming from the Magic: The Gathering world, it's commonplace ( even expected) that you shuffle your opponents deck in a competitive tournament.

On your opponent shuffling your deck: coming from the Magic: The Gathering world, it's commonplace ( even expected) that you shuffle your opponents deck in a competitive tournament.

I now it's all part of the ceremony of it all
i personally find it offensive though, being called a cheat, or the implication made that i'm a cheat.
It's just like the stores claiming they have the right to check my bags if i enter their store, legally, they don't have the right to look through anything of mine, and also...thanks for implying i'm a thief!
hmm wonder if that would fix the maester's path if you have to win a challenge with a maester.
Your opponent shuffling your deck is part of the AGoT tournament rules (step 2 under "pregame procedure"). I don't do it myself, really, but I don't know why someone would be surprised or bothered by it...
To me, shuffling someone's deck is not a personal implication but rather a show of respect to the game and all those playing. I wish it was a requirement.
@Istaril, yeah, that's a good point about the "command" mechanic coming in Kingsroad. I do wonder how much that will alter the prospect of TLV being the top dog. Of course, some of what we've seen so far looks like it involves discarding cards from your hand to do something (what's his name, the Baratheon Bannerman) so it's actually possible that TLV might benefit due to an easier time loading up on extra cards to trigger that sort of effect. I think it probably depends on what all we see in the first pack or two. Hopefully it's enough to give things a push before GenCon.

@Others, re: Shuffling- Yeah, I wish I could put my finger on why it bugged me when he did it to me. I completely understood the reason and didn't feel that it was a negative comment toward me. Perhaps I just feel possessive of my cards and didn't want someone else fondling them. Still, it's a habit that I've been trying to get myself into, as the other guys here in the group can attest to from Saturday.
@Kennon - Honestly I don't know if I'd like it either. Any chance the opponent might be able to see parts of my deck unintentionally or not just bothers me.