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A Time for Reprints: An Open Letter

Small Council Reprint jimpanda

A Time for Reprints: An Open Letter


In a recent set of auctions on Ebay, the A Song of Summer and The Winds of Winter Chapter Packs sold for $100.00 and $108.49 respectively. It took me a minute to realize I was awake and not just dreaming it: a few people out there actually paid 10x the retail price of fixed Chapter Packs because of how scarce they have become and how necessary they are. One post on the GoT Trade Forums on Fantasyflightgames.com is titled "Paying $100+ for unopened Song of Summer Chapter Pack". Has it really gotten this bad? Apparently it has.

The issue here is really two-fold. The first problem is the obvious one: how friggin’ hard it has become to get these packs. I’m not going to boycott FFG or start a crazy picket line here; I know print runs are tricky things and there are many factors that go into what gets printed when, etc. My intent is not to make Fantasy Flight out to be the Galactic Empire. The truth is that they make a great game, and I feel very strongly about how good the product is overall. That said, these packs have officially disappeared from the Earth and are now practically impossible to find. To put it in perspective, you can purchase an entire 6 Chapter Pack cycle (that had more cards in each pack to begin with) for less than the cost of one of the “Season Packs”. It’s not as if we are talking about the rarest of Magic sets here – these are fixed packs in a game with virtually no singles market that were made only a few years ago.


The second, and in my view most important, problem is how critical these packs are to certain deck builds. If I had to tell people that the Scattered Armies Chapter Pack was almost impossible to find, I wouldn’t lose much sleep over it. Lannister players would have to find a replacement for the 1 copy of Tommen Baratheon they would otherwise play, but life would go on. Unfortunately, the plain fact is that these packs are necessary for many top tier decks to function. Let’s start with the fact that many of the top Regional decks this season will have 3 Carrion Birds in them. These little guys are cheap, neutral characters that are strong for their cost and have a built in ability to deal with other Raven cards, ie. other Carrion Birds and the Black and White Ravens. In fact, there is no card more prevalent in decklists, pound for pound than these little devils. If these were House-specific it would be one thing, but ANYONE can play them – and many decks do. Also guaranteed is the fact that many Martell and Targaryen decks will feature the Kings of Summer Agenda/ Black Raven package for card advantage and gold production.

I’m not even going to get into how useless poor Samwell Tarley is without these packs….poor guy. Better hope your opponent is playing the Raven cards you couldn't get your hands on...

The biggest kick in the pants, though, is The Winds of Winter Chapter Pack, the lack of which leaves Greyjoy (forgive the pun) out in the cold. Greyjoy Winter Choke is one of the strongest decks right now, and the majority of those play with: The Kings of Winter Agenda, White Raven x 2-3, Carrion Bird x 3, and Ice Fisherman x 3. For those of you keeping score, that’s 9-10 cards from a single Chapter Pack that this deck loses out on. Even the Maester’ Path versions of the deck still plays all of these cards except the Agenda. The main point here is that Martell and Targaryen can deal without Summer; they have other builds (Maester, KotHH, etc.) to choose from. Generally speaking, Greyjoy Choke (ie. Winter) is the only top tier Greyjoy deck, and even the Maester variant still uses almost all of the same Winter cards.

We currently have about 30 players in our local meta here in Rochester, and more than half of them have been playing the game for only a few months. For the most part, the game is easy to pick up and cheaper to invest in due to the LCG format. Having to tell players that some Chapter Packs are out of print and kind of tough to get is fine; people understand that not everything can be in print at once. Telling them, however, that there are two packs that are crucial for certain deck types that are now only available sporadically on Ebay for $100 a piece is really disheartening. A new player asked me the other day what he should buy for his Greyjoy deck to help make it more tournament-ready for the upcoming Regional. I wanted to tell him that he could make a top-tier, tournament caliber deck from what was available, but I couldn’t bring myself to lie to him.

What's more, there are cards that reference Summer and Winter for every house. And while Baratheon and Lannister are unlikely to play either anytime soon, the pure fact that so many cards exist that reference the seasons makes their disappearance all the more frustrating. For those of you that want to quickly point out the existence of House-specific crowns that change the seasons, please believe me when I say they are no substitute. I wish they were.....but they are not nearly efficient enough to be considered replacements.This is the one situation where being a Living Card Game is unfortunate . By its nature, the product does not have an active and widespread singles market, which is great most of the time, but when packs become this scarce there is NO WAY to get the cards until it comes back in print. Proxies will only get you so far in life.

Obviously something has to change, and it has to change soon. It's a real shame that this situation had to come up just as the Regionals season was heating up. So.....what's to be done here? As far as I see it, there are three options:
  • Reprint the packs. Depending on future plans, current print run times, and concern for the skyrocketing price of the packs in question, the easiest way to go would be to reprint the packs, much like the King’s Landing and Defenders of the North sets.
  • Make a special box set of some kind. Other card games do this all the time. Make a Summer vs. Winter box set that has some of these cards reprinted in it. They would not only be cool decks that fit the games themes nicely, they would also be another outlet to pick up some of the cards that can’t be reprinted for one reason or another. The nice part about this game being a Living Card Game is that you don’t really have to worry about hurting the singles market, which is largely non-existent anyway.
  • Rotate the format. This one is touchy and could almost have a whole article devoted to it. Those of you familiar with Magic know that every year or so cards “rotate out” of the Standard format to keep it fresh and easier to keep up with. If FFG is not going to reprint the Time for Ravens and Clash of Arms cycles, they could rotate them out of the format and basically create two LCG formats – one where all the cards are legal and more Standard-esque one where these unavailable packs are not allowed. I’m not advocating this, just saying it’s an option. Who knows, a change of pace could do a body good.
The bottom line is this: these are two linchpin packs that most players need to play the game at a competitive level. We have reached a sort of tipping point where something has to give on this soon or the risk of alienating new players (and old ones too) becomes a real problem. Personally, I hope this gets resolved soon one way or another. Overall, this is one of the best card games I have ever played in one of the best environments I have ever played in, and I want to see it continue to grow in a healthy way. So, I suppose I'm really asking two things: That the GoT community be made aware of the problem and openly discuss it, and that Fantasy Flight takes these concerns seriously and strives to remedy the problem quickly, before people start mortgaging their homes for Carrion Birds.

Help us, Fantasy Flight Games, you’re our only hope.
  • Danigral, Voidy, Valterus and 9 others like this


50 Comments

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SneakyBookshelf
May 10 2012 10:40 AM
Quite eloquently put good sir and I agree with everything therein. Ive been playing for coming up on 3 years now and when I stareted I decided to purchase expansions and chapter packs backwards (Ie, from most recent to oldest) and lo and behold, now I have no summer, no winter, no banners and no fishwiskers. Id like to add to this that not only does it hurt competative play, it seriously hurts casual play, perhaps more so. If you're playing competatively you probably already have an investment in the game and will grudingly make a top tier deck out of a house that doesnt need those agendas but in casual play having a full 240 cards with interesting themes, weird applications and just pet favourites (Lol Fishwhiskers!) completely unavailable is frustrating, and could possibly lead to loss of interest. My friend came very close to quitting when the Kings Landing cycle was unavailable because he just started and I had to tell him "sorry, one of the best lanni packs out there is AWOL"

TL;DR Casuals want these packs too. A Clash of Arms too if possible!
    • ruvion, Voidy and imrahil327 like this
has this been emailed to FFG ? or do u want us to all send this to FFG.

i started a year ago with the brotherhood without banners chapter packs i kept up to date with new released packs and when defenders of the north and kings landing came reprinted in 3x format i immidiatly purchased those 2 cycles.

in the meantime i also got my hands on 3x core set (i just like to have playsets of all the cards)

and i would do the same with the 2 oldest cycles
a clash of arms and time of ravens.
    • Voidy likes this
Spot on. FFG really needs to solve this problem and your solutions are all very workable. Obviously, we'd probably all prefer they just reprint the things, but I do like your idea of a special Seasons box set.
    • sparty likes this
Great article. Definitely needed and I totally agree. That said...

I think FFG is getting around to doing reprints, but keep in mind how involved that process actually is for them! it's not just hitting the print button. There is errata incorporation, potential changes to the packing to accomodate 60 cards, etc. So they may have a fair amount of lead time just to get it ready for the printers. Then it's a matter of getting proofs back, verifying them, and making the order, having it slotted at the manufacturer, shipping and distribution through the distributor channels. In total it may be a year to see it because any reprint is going to be on top of the other work that's going on with AGoT and slotting it at the printer can be tricky depending on how far out they've already slotted their orders. There's just a lot going on even if FFG was already working on it!
Personally I think FFG's optimal solution is to let cards from those two chapter packs be played as proxies in any official tournaments until the packs get reprinted. AEG recently had one of the Legends of the 5 Rings sets delayed for a few months and they gave downloadable PDFs of all the cards and allowed for proxies to be run in tournaments until the set was actually released.
    • rlx, OrangeDragon, cooperflood and 6 others like this
There is something to be said for tournament cycles to force players out of whatever the current meta is at the time though. It might be interesting to see how that'd affect folks if each regional had it's own custom legal sets so it would force folks to do some creative deck development and building. Shifting the meta isn't a bad idea though I know it's likely to be more controversial than just allowing proxies which solves a lot of issues fairly elegantly.
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scantrell24
May 10 2012 03:28 PM
As a new player, bottom line for my point of view is that something needs to be done, and soon.
    • Kennon, ruvion and sparty like this
@sparty - I agree that it's not as simple as some people think. I understand that there are cost/ time/ availability concerns with starting a print run. I just want something. Even a "We know this is an issue, and we are working to resolve the problem" statement would be fantastic. They HAVE to know that this is an issue at this point, and I hope that they take some kind of step to resolve it.

As far as proxies go, I think that in local tournaments or Leagues it's a decent fix for this problem. I just have a hard time swallowing proxies in a Regional/ big tournament environment, especially in this game, where there is no real singles market/ expensive cards. It's unfortunate that the timing of this hit right at the start of Regionals season.

Really, I'm just sick of seeing decks like Greyjoy Choke being one of the top decks and having to tell people that they just can't play it. Some guys are even willing to spend the money (crazy as that is) but the packs just aren't anywhere.
    • Wake likes this
I just got an email back from FFG. They said "We currently have no plans to reprint either cycles at this moment."
They could just reprint those cards (Black Raven, White Raven, Kings of Summer, Kings of Winter, Carrion Bird) as part of the next chapter pack cycle, that would solve the major problem for the players and FFG would not have to reprint the whole cycle and it might even help the sales of the new cycle.
    • zordren likes this
If that's all they said without offering anything else that's a real shame.
    • zordren likes this
Yeah I responded and asked for a bit more detail. We'll see if I get anywhere. If not I'll see what I can get out of them next weekend when I go up to Days.
    • mathiasfricot likes this
Couldn't agree with you guys more. Hope FFG fixes this.
I know that one of the huge issues that FFG runs in to is that they have a huge surplus of many of the packs in those two cycles that are not as "in demand." I am guessing a potential problem becomes how much they want to lose on all of the packs within those cycles that they have "TONS" of excess. I wonder if they would ever consider reprinting just the two packs instead of the whole cycle?
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ProfessorLust
May 10 2012 06:24 PM
this continues to show that FFG is a board game company with a competition problem
Or just the Summer/Winter Ravens/ Agendas in another pack or box set. The fact that there are dozens of cards that reference summer and winter across many Chapter Packs is rough. To not have the summer or winter cards available and make lots of cards that reference them is just silly. And no, Cotter Pyke is not an excuse for in-print Winter-making cards :)
Well I think that the early chapter pack distribution was a bit off (you had amazing packs and then you had crappy packs) because they just weren't sure how to do it. They seem to have it figured out now, but doesn't really solve the issue that Banjan8r raises. I think the biggest problem is that FFG isn't communicating. They have always been very tight lipped about stuff in progress. If they even just said, we're working on getting it figured out, it would go a long way towards calming people down.
    • ruvion likes this
Yeah, their stance right now seems more apathetic than I had expected. And, once again, the game is one of the best I have ever played, it's just that this "little problem" could become a lot bigger if something isn't done soon.
    • zordren likes this
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darkbladecb
May 10 2012 07:37 PM
I genuinely think they have every intention of reprinting them... as soon as they run out, as was said. But no one is buying the other packs in the Cycle, because people are waiting for the theoretical future 3x reprints. But if people don't buy them because they're waiting for the 3x reprint, then they won't ever sell out, so there won't ever be a reprint...

...it's a tough impasse.
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slothgodfather
May 10 2012 08:00 PM
They said they don't intend to reprint the cycle; well hopefully they are still considering reprinting of the 2 season packs. I really liked the idea of a Seasons box set with both season packs.

It's odd to me not to consider reprinting the packs as demand requires just because other packs of the cycle aren't selling. It is not like those other packs are somehow substitutes of the season’s packs and will sell just because the others are unavailable. Packs sell because they are new, because someone wants to "collect them all" or because they have good cards in them.

If they have a huge surplus of the other packs, perhaps reprinting the seasons would help increase interest in the game and get those other packs moving a little better. All the "it's a lot of work" aside, I don't see the financial sense to not reprinting them.
Well the way FFG has the print runs set up they print whole cycles at once. That way it cuts down on shipping costs. So they don't really have an agreement set up to just run two sets.
I would love for the next deluxe expansion to be something connected to the seasons.
Then they could reprint the agendas and the ravens in it and expand the themes with some cards for every House and some neutrals.
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slothgodfather
May 10 2012 09:43 PM

Well the way FFG has the print runs set up they print whole cycles at once.


Simple, just print multiples of the few packs that are not available. To keep the cycle releases they could just release the normal amount each month. Honestly though I think something like a separate seasons box set would be best.
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ProfessorLust
May 10 2012 10:22 PM
no its not that simple. the reality is that the first two cp cycles were ppoorly designed in that each pack had a self contained theme. what this did was to make the packs self contained but also underdeveloped and thematic orphans.


however, this doesn't mean that they can be sepetated as a production unit.

If they have a huge surplus of the other packs, perhaps reprinting the seasons would help increase interest in the game and get those other packs moving a little...


Excellent point!