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All Things Shagga - Neutral Cities

Small Council All Things Shagga Kennon

Welcome back, intrepid readers, to yet another installment of All Things Shagga. This week, we’re taking a look at one of my favorite Shagga cards from the Brotherhood Without Banners cycle- The Neutral Faction! “But Kennon,” you’re thinking, “you already did this last week!” Right you are, ser! But this week, we’re going to drive and take a look at some other neat tricks that you can pull with this card. Last week, we focused our time on getting a draw engine up and running through Hollow Hill and then maintaining that with our character selection, but there’s another location (or locations *hint hint*) that lend themselves to an interesting, but rather different deck.

Key Cards:
The Neutral Faction - By and large you can just take a look at the comments that I made last week. Suffice it to say that shaving 1 gold off of the out of house penalty of all your characters is key.

Braavos, Myr, Norvos, Tyrosh, Volantis - The Beyond the Narrow Sea cycle brought us these sweet new Shagga cards as well that heavily encourage one of my favorite Shagga activities- splashing! Splashing out of house cards and characters is one of the best ways to start putting together unexpected card interactions or situations and with the right Kingdom location in play, you can knock the out of house penalty off your characters completely. Conveniently, the same factor that makes it impossible to use House of Dreams with the Neutral Faction makes it so that your Kingdoms will reduce all of your characters as “out of house.” Of course, they also lower the cost of the first character of a particular trait that you play by 1, so if your character matches there as well, you’ll actually come out ahead on income. One important thing you might note is that I’m not running Pentos which reduces Targaryens and Armies. Sadly, I wanted this deck to have a fairly different character base, and as you’ll see in a moment, there just weren’t really any Targaryen characters that met the criteria that I was looking for.

All of the Dual House Characters - Yup, I’m cheating a bit by lumping these in together in one large section instead of breaking them down a bit more. The idea here is mainly that they are that much more likely to benefit from the cost reduction associated with at least one Kingdom. If you hit on a couple Kingdoms, so much the better. Another neat aspect is once again working the trait factor. For instance, Arrogant Contender is dual house (Baratheon/Lannister) so it can be reduced by Tyrosh and Myr, but it also happens to be both a Knight and an Ally which lets it utilize the second reduction on both of those locations. If you happen to have them both in play, you can play Arrogant Contender for free. Several of the other characters also cross over on houses and/or traits like Littlefinger (Stark/Lannister and Lord/Ally).

Treaty to the North - This time I changed it up partly just to have a different treaty than you normally see, but also for a couple of important reasons. To begin with, being treatied to a house, any house, allows you to shave the cost of the Kingdom locations down to their printed 1 cost, which helps immensely when you’re trying to use them to jumpstart an economy. Secondarily, a sizeable portion of the dual house character base is half Stark, so this allows you to knock out the initial Out of House penalty on those characters, and then reduce them below face value using the Kingdoms.

Val - This time around, we needed a new draw engine to get things up and running, and it’s harder to find a faster one than Val. Yes, she’s awfully vulnerable, but she’s still a great card. In the early game, she’ll filter through your more expensive cards until you have locations set up, and then she’ll help fill the board, often with your first character at a very steep discount, thus setting a better stage for the second.

A Pinch Of Powder - A Pinch of Powder serves two roles here, giving us repeatable character control and an outlet for the influence that we have on the Kingdom locations, thus helping us be more efficient. Even better, as long as you have 2 gold to put it into Shadows, hitting it on a Val reveal is hardly a detriment as it can then wait patiently for the right time to come out and be put to use.

Flood Waters - With the influence in the deck, I wanted another way to take advantage of it, and I wanted to make sure that it was one that could almost always be used off of a Val reveal. Enter Flood Waters. While the River plots aren’t universally powerful control plots like most City plots seem to be, they do offer a very flexibly array of effects that can be triggered multiple times from their own text as well as a timely Flood Waters.

Thoughts on Play:
The deck should play like a somewhat smarter version of Clown Boat. In the early game, your characters aren’t going to be as cheap as that fabled deck, so you may need to do your best to buy time. Before the Black Walls can interfere with challenges to slow your opponent and Crossing the Ruby Ford’s removal of that 1 measly power can be surprisingly relevant when your opponent only needs to get to 10 in order to win. When timed right, even At the Palace of Sorrow can be used as a tempo swing against the opponent. A timely copy of any of these effects can really help put a crimp on your opponent in order to get enough time to get your engine rolling.

In order to help assemble the pieces as you go or to find gas once you have it assembled, you of course have Val at your disposal, but Shores of Ny Sar plus any of the River copying effects give a non-draw source of card advantage that can keep you digging. As well, Much and More is great for combo style decks that need to dig out specific pieces. Better yet, it’s an Any Phase event that can be played if you flip it off of Val, thus being very unlikely to be wasted. Even Ghost of Winterfell can propel us deeper into the deck if an opponent is foolish enough to throw a body in front of it.

Much like the previous deck, a variety of our characters have control effects such as Orphan of the Greenblood and Cersei’s Attendant, but joining them now as a dual house and appropriately traited character (for Kingdom reduction) is Brothel Guard. Along with A Pinch of Powder, make certain that you target any opponent’s character with renown or other means of gaining power. Not only are you vulnerable due to the time it takes to set up the pieces, but a Treaty essentially gives your opponent a 5 power handicap, thus making power mitigation of the utmost importance. Defend at every chance as well until you’re able to get into a midgame where your out of house bruisers will be able to take over. Characters like Littlefinger, Asha Greyjoy, The Red Viper, The Knight of Flowers, Cersei Lannister and Harman Uller all have some level of ability to attack without kneeling, so they should let you really start putting your opponent on their heels once you can get a couple in play.

The Deck:

House (1)
Neutral Faction (IG) x1

Agenda (1)
Treaty with the North (LoW) x1

Plot (7)
Above the Sorrows (VM) x1
At the Palace of Sorrows (VM) x1
Before the Black Walls (VD) x1
Shores of Ny Sar (VM) x1
Under the Bridge of Dream (VD) x1
Crossing the Ruby Ford (RotK) x1
Alliance (PotS) x1

Character (37)
Orphan of the Greenblood (PotS) x3
Cersei's Attendant (Core) x3
Tommen Baratheon (SA) x1
Arianne Martell (PotS) x1
Asha Greyjoy (WLL) x1
Cersei Lannister (LotR) x1
The Red Viper (PotS) x1
Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) x1
Newly Made Lord (TftH) x2
Val (RotO) x3
Bran Stark (Core) x2
Harmen Uller (PotS) x1
Knight of Flowers (SaS) x1
Littlefinger (SaS) x1
Ser Kevan Lannister (LotR) x1
Willas Tyrell (VM) x1
Brienne of Tarth (PotS) x1
Ghost of Winterfell (AHM) x3
Brothel Guard (LotR) x3
Joffrey Baratheon (PotS) x1
Theon Greyjoy (PotS) x1
Arrogant Contender (LotR) x3
The Hound (PotS) x1

Location (14)
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
Street of Steel (Core) x1
Shadowblack Lane (Core) x1
Ocean Road (WLL) x1
Braavos (VD) x2
Myr (AHM) x2
Norvos (VD) x2
Tyrosh (AHM) x2
Volantis (VM) x2

Event (6)
Flood Waters (ARotD) x3
Much and More (AHM) x3

Attachment (3)
A Pinch of Powder (PotS) x3
  • bigfomlof likes this


26 Comments

Why have you choosen Treaty with the North? There are much more Martell cards in that deck. Anyway I like the idea. FFG would make a good job by giving us back the old treaty agenda (20 powers), which would make those deck type and some other decks much more playable. I've tried several builds with those treaty agendas, but it is nearly an auto lost against any type of rush deck.
    • snagga likes this
I love these articles, and am always impressed by your creativity and thinking behind the decks. One question: What is Clown Boat?
Clow Boat is a Greyjoy deck that is using either all of the NW or WL agendas. The main focus of the deck is that everything you have there is mostly of cost 0-2. It then tries to play Val and Dolorous Edd so that it can just casually play the top 6 cards of the deck since everything is low cost.
    • Kennon likes this
Photo
asmoothcriminal
Feb 13 2013 04:59 PM
Have you considered Palace Spy to help you get to your locations? I'm guessing she is too expensive, but at least raises the odds of you getting the out of house reducers this deck really needs...
Another reason to use Treaty with the South instead of North though... 2 cost influence location search? Sign me up please.
I keep looking at the deck list and really feel like Treaty with the South would be better than North... Am I missing something? Especially if you choose to include Palace Spy as suggested above.
Love CardGame articles for when your creativity is gettin stale!
Sorry guys, the Treaty with the North is a holdover from the first version of the deck before I made enough cuts to get it down to 60 cards. If I total things up now (not counting Kingdoms, of course, since they're all houses) there are 10 Martells and 9 Starks so there is a very slight edge to Martell in this version, but in the initial pull I was looking at Wildling Bard (CD) and Royal Guard (SB), which put things firmly in the more Stark centric build.
Well, what do you think about Palace Spy? Worth inclusion or is it going to cut out too much good stuff?
I need to make sure that we understand what Flood Waters will do. I have read 2 different rulings on it.

1) Using Flood Waters only triggers the one river plot card you choose with it, thus ignoring the "then" portion. (ktom here - http://www.fantasyfl...&efpag=0#738377)

2) Using Flood Waters will allow you to trigger the "then" portion of the chosen River plot card.
(From Agotcards.org -
Chris Jankiewicz "Here's what I sent to Damon: " (...) The second card we argued about was Flood Waters. We didn't know whether or not the "Then" effect of the River plot card would apply; that is if Flood Waters copied the effect of the top River plot in the used plot pile as well. The argument in favor of the copying was that Flood Waters clearly stated that the plot effect was played as if you had just revealed it. Thus, the whole effect of the River plot card would apply. Could you please tell us if the Then effect applies?" His answer: "Yes, Floodwaters allows the chosen River plot to resolve its "then" effect."")

Kennon - I was wondering which ruling you were considering when assembling this deck? The power level of Flood Waters is significantly different if it also allows you to trigger the "then" portion of the chosen River plot. #2 above is the most recent comment as #1 is about 3 months old now. I am hoping that #2 is the way it will work.
    • clu and OKTarg like this
I'm also wondering about the utility of Volantis. Do you have two cards it reduces? Why not triple up on one or two others or even throw in some Pentoshi manors since that card is totally worth three.
Not even one copy of hollow hill? I'm surprised that didn't make the cut.
The Kingdom locations turn it off, so it would barely have any use.
    • Kennon, emptyrepublic and erocklawell like this
Exactly. The nonbo with Hollow Hill is the reason that it didn't wind up making the cut here.

Palace Spy is a tough one. It can be handy to go get a kingdom location, but doesn't do terribly much else on its own. That isn't to say that it wouldn't have a potential home, but I'm not certain what I would cut that doesn't start getting into some of the more impactful characters. I think that between a Treaty agenda of your choice and the Alliance plot, you should be able to get any of the important stuff in your hand into play with a minimum of fuss. If you did wind up with something in your hand without one of the appropriate reducers in play, I'm not sure this is the right deck for her anyway, since you'd be spending at least 3 gold on her unless you already have the appropriate reducers in order to search for a location to reduce the cost of whatever you have in your hand by 2 if both the house and trait match. While the spread of houses and traits in the deck are pretty wide and interlocking, I'm just not entirely sold on it theoretically. I think it's a card that I would just have to test the deck with it and without it to get a better feel for how it plays in those situations.

Actually, Volantis reduces 3 cards, OKTarg. :P But actually, there were a few other cards in the initial build that gave it a bit more impact (Euron, Wendamyr and another Newly Made Lord for instance). When I made the decision to pull Pentos and the couple of Targ cards that I had, I had a tough time deciding on if I should drop GJ as well (or possibly just keep Asha as a singleton regardless), but I decided that with Flood Waters and A Pinch of Powder floating around, I wanted to keep the different influence sources up, as well as having a hard time ignoring the power level of NML. Another option might be to pull those and insert a playset of the Seas that match whichever house you decide to Treaty to.

@Bomb, honestly, I didn't realize that there was a conflicting ruling with the ktom one that I was aware of. I included Flood Waters under the assumption that you would only get the base effect of the River plot that you copy, but should it be officially ruled (FAQ'd) that you get both the initial effect and the copy, then the usefulness of Flood Waters increases by a pretty substantial margin and will allow for some even cooler plays.

Speaking of cool plays, I didn't really spend any time in the article acknowledging Bran Stark, who is just cool in general, but extremely awesome with things like the City and River plots.
    • OKTarg likes this
With Treaty of the South and Neutral Faction won't Palace Spy be a 2-cost? Then if you have the appropriate reducers in play already it would be even cheaper. But looking at the list I also wasn't sure what to cut to make room for Palace Spy. Perhaps you wouldn't need to double up each location if you have search for the ones you don't draw? Maybe cut out a Cersei's attendant or two? It just seems like such a good idea since we're working with the kingdom locations to get a search effect in place for it.

Maybe pull 1 Volantis, 1 Myr, and 1 Cersei's Attendant for 3 Palace Spies? Not sure what else could be cut that doesn't really change the deck...

Also, a kingdom location can be played for free with one of the other kingdom's already in play. Need to pay attention to the order cards are played. But maybe Pentos wouldn't be bad as a one of (with search in place), since you'd never trigger the Targ card condition except with another kingdom... then what you find with Palace Spy could always be dropped in for free. Making it 2-gold or less for a character and another (searched) kingdom location.

Sorry I'm hijacking this a bit. I'm just really intrigued but don't have the cards to build this myself and mess around with it...

With Treaty of the South and Neutral Faction won't Palace Spy be a 2-cost?


No. The neutral faction reduces the gold penalty by 1, not overall cost. With the Treaty of the South, the Neutral Faction does nothing to reduce Martell characters.

I'm not sure if that information changes the rest of your post...
    • Kennon likes this
Well, it certainly makes it less awesome. Thanks for clarifying. Though even at 3-gold (possibly less with a reducer in place already), I think it could be good. However, the part of the post referring to the free kingdom locations is still fine.
I think if you are trying to get the free cities locations out more quickly, Palace Spy is certainly a positive. In fact, if there were more Search effects in this deck, I'd even go as far to suggest adding Rickon Stark. However, there aren't any other search effects that I see to be useful in this deck without helping the opponent and hurting your deck.

When playing this deck, be careful not to play Free City locations before any other characters as they will soak up any Free City location OOH reduction that hasn't been used yet. So if you have Volantis and Braavos out, make sure you play a Greyjoy character and a Stark character before playing Pentos. If you play Pentos first, it will eat up both Volantis and Braavos reductions.
That is a really good catch though, that the kingdoms will reduce each other. That makes a single copy of Pentos look more appealing, but cuts are tough. Particularly to some of the control cards that hopefully help you make it through the early game.
One more comment -
You have no Limited cards in this deck. It might be worth taking advantage of Searoad or Roseroad or perhaps any of the Greyjoy limited characters since they are relatively cheap due to the keyword.

Kingsmoot Hopeful (FtC), for example, can be reduced by Ocean Road and Norvos.

Sea Raiders (KotS), can be reduced by Pentos(I just noticed you don't have that one).

Those characters are unfortunately very vanilla, so they'd really just be beef in play, but it is a fun thought.
I have a bad idea for this deck, but will suggest it for fun.
Ser Dontos Hollard (TftRK) can be a cost of 1 in this deck(He'd be one of the only Knights to be reduced by Myr). Your Lady characters are awesome.
Think about it.... ;)
To those saying Free Cities reduce other Free Cities--

That's awesome. I totally didn't even think about that with the Neutral house card.
Ah Ser Dontos, what an interesting fellow. I love the nugget of an idea there, but what would we do to kneel him? Sounds like we might have an idea for a Ladies of the Realm themed deck!
Well.... the thing that kills me about free cities early is the first one you play soaks up the ooh reduction since it will be the first of each house that round.... therefore it is almost like a limited location for the ooh reduction.
Exactly Bomb. That's why I mentioned that you need to plan carefully. So unless you're using that particular Kingdom's reduction that round, save your kingdom for the last play. That will use up any remaining out of house reduction you have. I also didn't realize it until I mentioned it above, but it's a great way to do it. (Also making Palace Spy a bit better since the location you pull could potentially be free to play.)