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An Empty Throne - Introduction
Feb 08 2013 06:05 AM |
Tobi
in Game of Thrones
An Empty Throne Tobi SerJaime
We (SerJaime and Tobi) are happy to present another Game of Thrones melee series: An Empty Throne.You might be thinking "do we need another melee series?" And our answer is yes. While The Grand Melee written by bigfomlof will focus cards and decks in melee games, An Empty Throne will focus on general mechanisms. We want to talk about diplomacy, choosing titles and similar issues.
Melee is still not that popular (in Stahleck only one-third of the players joined the melee tourney) and we would like to increase the number of melee players. So today we want to talk about three common problems some joust players have against melee games.
1) If the other players decide to create an alliance against me the game is over and I cannot win anymore.
Yes. But it is similar to say that you cannot win a Monopoly game if you have spent all your money.
Normally players do not create an alliance against you without a good reason, and if you have given them a reason you have done something wrong. So do not spend all your money. Always keep enough money to survive the next streets. In terms of Game of Thrones: Do not let it go so far that people form an unbreakable alliance against you.
You can avoid their deals by offering other deals.
You just have to offer better deals. For instance some characters or locations with strong controlling abilities and the simple but magic words “I don’t have to use it against youâ€. Combine it with some charm and persuasion and an enemy, who does not want to risk losing an important card, might turn into friend. Assumed that…
…you do not look like a threat.
If everybody expects you to win if they do not do anything against you, no argument will stop them. Never end a round with thirteen power without a safe way to win that game. That is why rush is so important in melee games. You have to make small deals and then rush from an inconsiderable position to the win.
So avoid letting other players think about forming an alliance against you.
2) Melee is not as challenging as joust games.
Of course melee games may forgive some of your mistakes, which could have cost you a joust game.
But in melee games there are titles and cards which may change the titles. And there are four players, and that means the number of cards you have to keep in mind is multiplied by three. And even if you have mastered the Game of Thrones and do not make any mistakes...
…winning a melee game requires more than card skills.
Like described you have to win allies. You have to look innocent. You have to manipulate the other players and of course you have to be resistant against their manipulations. Everybody at the table is trying to look like a lovely sheep and is thinking about how to collect ten power in the next turn to end the game. And to win that battle…
…a melee deck has to be able to claim a huge amount of power over a short time!
Creating a deck that is able to collect power very fast might seem pretty simple. Creating a deck which can explode and become unstoppable against three other players is not that easy. And if you do not know how your opponent’s deck works, you cannot predict if you can trust him or if he will be the player who will end the game on his next turn.
So melee games need other skills than joust games, but it is not less challenging.
3) The result of melee games often is determined by another player’s arbitrariness.
It often happens that a player – for instance after winning initiative – can chose who will win the game and it seems to be random who will become the winner.
The question is: what are the those situations? Very often plot effects and initiative are the deciding factors. So do not forget to think about those situations, when choosing your plots. But of course sometimes you cannot do anything. No deck can handle all situations. In the novel Cersei says: “In the game of thrones you win or you die. There is no middle groundâ€. But...
...the rules say a second place counts six points and a third place counts three points.
So unfortunately Cersei is wrong. You cannot win every game, but you can try to become as good as possible. So one thing is to accept the other players win and secure your second place. But this fact count for the deciding player as well. So if you want to win that game...
…you just have to offer a better deal than the other player, who might win the game as well.
Maybe you see a possibility to increase his position by one. Or better make him the second player. Just convince him with a deal to give the first place to you. Expect that everyone will attempt to maximize their result. Play like that too. Then no game will end randomly. So you see the Game of Thrones melee is much more than just a card game.
"It’s a game about intrigues, diplomacy and strategy."
We hope you have enjoyed our first article and in the next one we would like to take a closer look at diplomacy and deals.
- WWDrakey, Kennon, zordren and 5 others like this
9 Comments
It's not what it used to be anymore. I'm starting to grow tired of this format.
I really enjoyed the article and the opinion stated. It made me remember a game I considered to have lost, just to draw the exact cards to claim 8 power in a challenge and win.
I would like if in the next articles, there was a discussion about "Ethics" in the melee game, as of what should or shouldn't be negotiated and what are the limits.
A new player type you may have not heard about is the Stannis player. He was great at military stategy but had one flaw in his personality. Which was: he didn't have one. If it were't for Melisandre and her following of religious fanatics and Davos, the most loyal individual in all of westoros(tied with Hodor) where would Stannis be? Robert was a drunk and womanizer but he was loyal to his friends. Fought fiercly for those he loved, a brute on a battlefield. Renly had neither the smarts or braun but was was charming and charismatic and was really good at making friends. Lesson? Don't be a
Maybe you're a Joffrey, a whiny little twerp who respects no one and enjoys belittling and humiliating others. Lesson? Don't be a sore loser. Don't be a sore winner. People remember. People will begin to secretly hate you. One worse thing than a sore loser is a sore winner. Players will do anything in their power to prevent you from winning, even at their own expense. Don't make fun of the their deckbuilding skills and decision making. Just shake hands and say good game.
So what kind of King are you? Remember: this is Melee. Before you begin to find flaws in the melee format, first make a self evaluation of your dealmaking and diplomacy skills. Second- pinch your skin. Is it tough? good. If not Scrape some bark over it every day and repeat until desired toughness is reached.
Finally, you might have all the skills needed to succeed at melee but your meta has plain ole' grown tired of you winning all the time. Then you need to be more like Doran Martell. You're not a percieved threat, but you've been calculating, plotting, making alliances and friends, waiting for when the timing is right. But then again, you might happen to be the unlucky bloke at the table with callusion going on.Then you can consider yourself properly F@#**! And then there's those that just plain don't like melee. That's cool. John Bruno doesn't play it either.
i don't mean to sound like a "joffrey" cause i'm not really. it made for a great story, but my point is there are probably more opportunities for NPE with melee then in joust or really other card games general. It is just the nature of it.
Thick skin...is what you need more then strategy or diplomacy. Without it you'll quit the game long before you ever get good at it or figure it out.
I agree with you. I think Snagga came off a bit strong in his remarks and should be careful about calling out everyone else.
Is Stannis some new AGoT player type ? I only know of Nedly, Jamie and Shagga player types.
Yes, there will be an article focusing that issue. There are those players I call "game of thrones melee holigans", who have fun while playing melee, but destroy the game for the other peoples. Most horrible thing is if a player says "it is my goal is to win the game, but my primary goal is to avoid that player X will win". But that is a problem of other war board games as well, so you cannot deal it by game meachanisms, you just have to talk to the people - but more in the article in a few weeks! Collussion and world's melee final will part of that article as well.
All the way... thanks for the positive feedback! : )
I love melee on a casual level, for an entertaining experience with my group of friends (with a fair amount of drinking), who are all becoming fairly good players now, after a couple years of playing with strong decks (complete cardpool helps) . Even though we play casually, we are still competative and play on a higher level, but we dont have such a bloodlust that we are willing to make life suck for any particular player, were good friends, and thats key.
That being said, I really dont have alot of issues with people targeting you beacuse they know youre good. In a regular group, good = winning often, probably more often than anyone else, so its only natural to want to take down the guy with the best winning record. Im the best in my group cuz I own all the cards and spend the most time theroycrafting, reading, building the decks, and playtesting. I win the most, but I shouldnt expect to win all the time. I like to see my friends win. Its a better time all around when everyone is having a good time.