Beyond the Wall, Season 1 Episode 32

I'm sort of surprised no one really took a stab at the marketing and money side of the game in relation to the announcement. Preface: this is really only worth looking at IF in fact they are able to hold the IP and rights for several more years, which has to be our assumption or we all lose.

One of the biggest things I've been amazed at since starting in the game is how small the player base is and how lackluster (non-existent) advertising is when we look at the popularity of the IP. FFG struck gold ages ago when they licensed Thrones prior to HBO creating the show. They now find themselves approaching the inevitable peak of popularity and relevance of the show and books (2-4 years, maybe a little bit longer?) and probably thinking (and rightfully so) that they have squandered the IP's massive popularity these past few years.

LCG wise they have gone so much further than their other long lasting LCG's (Invasion, Cthulhu) that they now have to find actual long term solutions the LCG form. What they do for Thrones will be the first test for the future of LCGs and will end up being a long analysis and discussion in regards to what to do with their other, more popular, LCG's. 

Also, board and card games have continued to grow in popularity year over year at a massive rate, especially in the most recent years, and I'm sure FFG is very aware of the concrete numbers in regards to this. The ccg > lcg transfer may have been a (smart) gamble that paid off well, but moving forward with a complete reboot today at the cost of 50-75% of the current player base is a price I think they would pay in a heartbeat to open up the Thrones IP and (a cleaned/tightened) game to exponentially more people.

With those minor thoughts and angles applied to that side of things combined with everything you guys went in depth about, which does effect the popularity and reach of the game, I think FFG still ends up with the exact same conclusion as you guys do. A complete reboot. 

Edit: Clarity.

I'm not sure if it got edited out or not, but I did make a comment to the effect of the decision from FFG differing when/if the license expires as well as bootstrapping the popularity of the show and (fingers crossed) soon to drop Winds of Winter. 

Reboot. Reduce. Recycle.

I'm not sure if it got edited out or not, but I did make a comment to the effect of the decision from FFG differing when/if the license expires as well as bootstrapping the popularity of the show and (fingers crossed) soon to drop Winds of Winter. 

 

Reboot. Reduce. Recycle.

Yep, it's in there still, as are a couple subtle nods from one or two of you in regards to needing a longer term solution for LCG's (that isn't just slowing down releases, IE: killing the game slowly). I just wanted to hammer it a bit harder that, as a business, issues like those are probably the ones they are probably what FFG will focus on when it comes to whatever the announcement is going to be. That said, hopefully in the end art, rule clarity and ease of entry, along with long and short term general game direction, are all end results in whatever their answer is - but their answer will most definitely be driven by net profit.

I'm completely against any sort of reboot.  I'm a player returning after a 3? year hiatus and as such i've been buying the chapter packs I've missed 2 or 3 at a time.  This is almost the same thing that FFG did when they switched to their LCG format from the ccg that alienated players the first time. Absolutely no word and then rotating out everything after everyone spent a bunch of money first.  If they plan a rotation or reboot of some kind the players like myself who are trying to catch up deserve to know before we completely waste our effort and money again.  

I'm completely against any sort of reboot.  I'm a player returning after a 3? year hiatus and as such i've been buying the chapter packs I've missed 2 or 3 at a time.  This is almost the same thing that FFG did when they switched to their LCG format from the ccg that alienated players the first time. Absolutely no word and then rotating out everything after everyone spent a bunch of money first.  If they plan a rotation or reboot of some kind the players like myself who are trying to catch up deserve to know before we completely waste our effort and money again.  

They said back in April there would be some sort of announcement regarding this in November.

I like the idea of a reboot.  I think that, as long as they don't implement a reboot immediately (i.e. they ANNOUNCE they'll rotate in 6 months/12 months), I'd be OK with a reboot.

I'll listen to the cast and see if I have other, more substantive comments.

I'm not sure if it got edited out or not, but I did make a comment to the effect of the decision from FFG differing when/if the license expires as well as bootstrapping the popularity of the show and (fingers crossed) soon to drop Winds of Winter. 

 

Reboot. Reduce. Recycle.

I'd have to check, but I think the Winds of Winter comment got cut. Let's be fair, Martin's not publishing Winds of Winter soon enough to use that to springboard any product launches in the next year or so!

Yes sadly i had to aggressively cut or we would have had a 2 hour episode.

I'm in favor of reboot. I don't think 50%+ of the player base would leave, but even if that did happen, why does FFG care? The current player base is SMALL. They stand to gain WAY more players via reboot considering the popularity of the intellectual property. 

I like the idea of a reboot.  I think that, as long as they don't implement a reboot immediately (i.e. they ANNOUNCE they'll rotate in 6 months/12 months), I'd be OK with a reboot.

 

I'll listen to the cast and see if I have other, more substantive comments.

Isn't this essentially guaranteed by the Wardens cycle? (Changes happening in x amount of time announcement.)

Isn't this essentially guaranteed by the Wardens cycle? (Changes happening in x amount of time announcement.)

Well, who knows. Wardens might have been designed with rotation in mind to be a self-contained set that meshes with a new core, or deluxe expansions. If that's the case, we're unlikely to get a re-templating, and a cycle rotation would be most likely.

 

I'm in favor of reboot. I don't think 50%+ of the player base would leave, but even if that did happen, why does FFG care? The current player base is SMALL. They stand to gain WAY more players via reboot considering the popularity of the intellectual property. 

 

 

 

They told us in April. The Warden's cycle won't end until next March. That's a one year warning. 

 

Warning of what?  I guess in that time I just shouldn't buy back product then? That surely, will bode well for any tournaments I wanted to be in during that time, such as regionals, gencon and the upcoming worlds.  "There is going to be an announcement" isn't any kind of warning.  

I just wish they would announce it already. I am having a hard time with it hanging over our heads. I received A Dire Message 2 or so weeks ago, and have yet to take it out of the package. 

I am fine either way, but reboot or not, they had better (as has been mentioned several times before) seriously clean up the rules if they are serious about wanting to get new players (not to mention start actually advertising as well).

When I started this game and brought several friends into it, it was never the cards themselves (or card pool) that were a pain to learn/teach, but memorizing the breakdown of the time flowchart. I was honestly blown away when I first saw it, simply because how critical it was to know and how long I had been playing (casually) without even knowing its existence! Not to mention the restricted list as well. 

In the very least if they do not wish to change the FAQ, they need to print the timing structure in the core 2.0 handbook for new players and post on the front page where they can find the restricted card list and other important errata and additional rules.

Meta mates told me they might be selling their cards before worlds in preparation of a reboot. 

While I'm hoping for reboot, I think there's about a 5% chance it happens. Rotation or some other option involving a new Core Set and reprints is way more likely.

Plus there won't be much of a market for used cards right now.

Best solution to my mind would be to say that the entire cardpool is now considered the 'Legacy' version of AGOT and that the last 5 cycles are now the 'Modern' format. They could have 'Modern' championships at Worlds alongside Legacy, but limit a player to choose which one she would like to compete in.

Alongside a new Core set with updated flowchart/errata listings/etc (optimally with a Greyjoy & Martell starter deck too) I think this could be something all fans of AGOT could learn to like....especially if they also ditch Melee as a championship.

 

Very nice cast! You actually made me realize some things about the tiered play solution (like the struggle it would be on to's and players alike to maintain decks for all the environments...) i was hoping for and made me reconsider other solutions like rotation.
 
While i still think the tiered play could be a solution if they divide every tournament into tiers and not the tiers into tournaments (f.e. one week full card pool-one week limited), i am now thinking that the solution lies elsewhere...
To attract more new players FFG could issue some preconstructed, tier 1.5 tournament ready decks for each house. This way you give them an opportunity to buy a ready to play product, that gives them also a fair amount of staple cards (i.e. castellan, no quarter, incinerate) and room for improvement through buying other CP. If this is done at regular intervals i believe it would attract a great amount of new players. This plus a possible release of core v1.1, that is accompanied by face-lifted rules and reprinted/new re-templated problematic cards to work with said new rules, could be the solution FFG needs about attracting new players.

About the increasing pool size, while i don't find it that problematic if they use the above solution they could start some form of rotation if they use the extra core to give us also cards essential to support strategies that are going to be rotated out (i.e sam+ravens or other form to give summer winter like the crowns....).

So with that said, here's to hoping that their announcement finds the golden ratio between solving the problem of the entry barrier without alienating the current player-base !

BUZZZZZZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also "Red Viper is immune to rotation"  classic line

Personally I'd like a reboot so long as the house defining characteristics stay. I'd like to see more support for trait themes; some like ambush are well covered though others seem to tantalize with possibility (like unsullied).

WIth the current card base a new (or returning player like me) has a huge problem. For example, I only play a couple of houses and I don't really want to buy a whole chapter pack for one card that fits my theme. Maybe more sets of house & themed packs would help.