Beyond the Wall, Season 1 Episode 41

Thanks a lot for the great episode. I also like that you split Worlds up into 3 episodes instead of squeezing everything into one!

Also I liked, how you described your reactions at the airport. I followed DCDennis Twitter, and while the first games past by, I was disappointed, because the kind of rotation they announced seemed unappropriate for Thrones. But when they finally came to Agot, and I saw that the font of the logo was changed, I was literally on the edge of my seat.

Very much looking forward to the next episodes, especially with the special guests!

So long

I think we'll see 30 cards for each of the 8 factions in the Core. If you want to play with only 1 core, you'll have to ally two houses to build a legal deck. 

I think we'll see 30 cards for each of the 8 factions in the Core. If you want to play with only 1 core, you'll have to ally two houses to build a legal deck. 

30 is optimistic. Since we know we're at 5*50 sleeves max and that the core supports up to 6 players, we might be obliged to have 30 plot cards (if 'small' plot decks), or 42. Add in the Titles (6), the House Cards (8), that leaves us with a maximum of 208 to divide among 8 factions (assuming no neutrals!) - that's <26 cards a faction. Even if decksize is 50, all you need is one Loyal card a faction to make it impossible to build a legal deck.

Let's hope there are no 2xs, so all those 26 are unique and the cardpool from 3x Core is larger.

Keeping in mind that with the long-term rotation ideal, they also have to introduce cards that will stay in the environment forever (Westeros Bleeds and Milk of the Poppy-like cards), I think it's fair to say that we should reduce our expectations for the Core set. It will definitely feel incomplete and small by comparison to our cardpool, but it's going to herald great things for the game & the community.

one thing i would like to see go is massive board wipes like valar , bleeds and favorable ground.  i would prefer cards like aftermath, wildfire assault and fleeing to the wall.

one thing i would like to see go is massive board wipes like valar , bleeds and favorable ground.  i would prefer cards like aftermath, wildfire assault and fleeing to the wall.

I think the announcement talk confirmed that Valar would be remaining, and would be limit one per deck. It's too iconic, and integral to the relative balance of challenges, to vanish. At least not without some serious re-jigging of the challenge mechanics, which they seam loathe to do. Westeros Bleeds, on the other hand, may well vanish.

That said, if plot decks are smaller (and I hope they are not), say 5 plots, you may see considerably fewer plot decks running Valar!

It's also possible that the minimum deck sizes will be smaller.  Not sure what I'd think of a change like that, but with 8 factions it may be possible.  Another thing I wonder about are maximum cards by title per deck.  Obviously it's 3x in 1ED, but I wonder if they will make it 2x for 2ED(but I doubt it).

I have some concern for faction distribution per chapter pack.  I mean, it's not a major concern, but unless they do away with the number of neutral cards they release(which I hope is only limited to standard resources like a draft pack starter kit), there isn't much room for adding 2 more factions to chapter packs.  So, that makes me think they aren't release many neutral cards, if any at all.

I think it's entirely possible that we see more multi-affiliated cards as well. Which could help smooth the balance of 8 factions in a single pack.  Alternatively, they could do something like a 4 and 4 factions/pack model.

I think it's entirely possible that we see more multi-affiliated cards as well. Which could help smooth the balance of 8 factions in a single pack.  Alternatively, they could do something like a 4 and 4 factions/pack model.

This definitely makes the most sense to me, assuming the structure loosely resembles what we have today.

According to FFG website.

Conquest Core 274 cards. 7 factions, not sure this includes the number of mini cards in the game or not.

Netrunner core 252 cards. 7 factions

Cthulhu Core 155 cards

Lord of the Rings Core 226 cards

Star Wars Core ???

I believe all these cores retail for $40. So the # of cards in a core seems to have some flexibility, while maintaining that price point.

Yeah, but we know how many sleeves are required to sleeve the AGOT 2.0 (5 packs of full sized sleeves), which limits us to 250 total cards. Conquest, for instance, was 5 full size, and 1*small sleeve pack (for the tokens). Netrunner was 6*50 full sized (by two cards)

How do we know it is 5 packs of sleeves in size? Was that stated in an interview?

The product description / Catalogue page: http://www.fantasyfl...eidm=277&esem=2

I am both lazy and full of myself, so I will just paste my thoughts on decksize from the FFG boards:

I'm very much against reducing the deck size for tournament decks. If anything, I'd be for *increasing* it. I'd like to see more variance, both in deckbuilding and in game play.

With a smaller tournament deck size, the number of cards that will see actual play will be even smaller, and the number of those never leaving the binder will be even bigger. The effect that we'll see ever the same decks and can reliably predict the vast majority of cards in them will be more pronounced.

In game play, smaller decks will have a bigger focus on pattern execution. They will be more like well oiled machines. Games will be more one-sided and less swingy, and there will be more NPE.

In short, smaller decks will reward the better deck builder, bigger decks will reward the better player. Bigger decks are also more luck dependent, but I can live with that.

The bigger deck size is the reason why so many people say DWDW decks are so much fun.

Personally, I'd hate a min deck size of 50. I'd love a general 70 or 75 card min deck size, but that doesn't seem likely. If I can't get that, please leave it at 60.

If one CS doesn't provide enough cards for several tournament legal decks, that's not a problem. Never was much of an issue with the 1ed CS.

Well, it's worth noting that deck size and variability is a function of number of copies of a card you can include. 

You could reduce it to 2x of a card, or increase it to 4 and accomplish a similar goal without changing deck size. Reducing to 2x could also mean that a CP would have 30 cards, and no more than 2x of a plot (the max playset there too), so that would have some other inherent advantages.

Some advantages of smaller decks is that it'll be easier to 'flesh out' themes early on, with a smaller card pool, that you'll be able to sleeve a deck in 1 "sleeve" pack, etc. 

The disadvantages, of course, you described above.

I think a 50 card x2 max format could be fun.  It is more distinct cards minimum than a 60 card x3 format. So it has a higher minimum variance, though a smaller maximum I suppose.

I don't know, how I would feel about reducing the deck size/copies per card. I can see the advantages, but on the other hand a larger deck felt somehow more right for agot. Especially the rule of thumb 30/15/rest worked well, also for newcomers, but I think this will not work any more with the modified gold curve.

Other than that, would a reduced deck size finally make Mill playable?

I don't know either, but I am going to enjoy every moment of speculation until we do!

Yeah, I totally disregarded the number of copies of the same card you can have. That's another modulator for adjusting the amount of variance in the game. I'd be in favor of a bigger deck size and leaving the max number at 3. That gives you one more option for fine-tuning according to the utility of each card. You decide if you want the card x1, x2 or x3.

To me, the aspect that a deck fits in one pack of sleeves is utterly inconsequential, the number of them I have and will continue to buy. I understand it's a minor point of irritation for new players, but my level of commiseration is limited on this point. They will adapt, as we all have.

In truth, we are doing them all a favor by making them buy extra sleeves. I don't want to witness the tears and misery of the newbie one of whose sleeves tears during the second round of his first tournament, and he doesn't have a single spare.

+1 to ratatoskr i always bring 5+ extra sleeves for my deck just in case.