Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Search Articles

- - - - -

Crimson and Gold - The Long Voyage Hyperkneel

Small Council Crimson and Gold scantrell24

First let’s do some abstract thinking: What is the goal of the deck and how does it accomplish that goal? What matchups could prevent us from reaching that goal, and how can we beat them anyways?

Well, with Lannister kneel there are a few key ingredients. First we need a draw engine (or two, or three). The agenda fulfills a large part of this requirement, but we’ll have a few supplemental draws as well like Golden Tooth Mines and Doubting Septa. Next, we need gold to pay for the ingredients. The Arbor Guardsman (TCC), Lannisport Weaponsmith, and Moneylender can help us marshal a large number of cards every turn without needing an excessive number of limited locations. Third, we need the actual ingredients themselves – mostly kneel with some other control tricks tossed in there as well.

And finally, we need a win condition. Historically this last step is where Lannister often falls short. The Lions of Casterly Rock lack the renown of House Baratheon and the unopposed power of House Greyjoy. We do have power-claim cards like Tywin Lannister (LotR) and Sitting the Iron Throne, but they strike me more as gimmicks more than tournament worthy cards. With no easy path to victory, the Lannister player should expect a long game of at least five rounds where he slowly accumulates power and fights to keep the opponent’s big hitters out of action. Keywords like stealth and deadly will come in handy as well.

Let’s take a look at the first rough draft.

Plots

Many TLV decks run a restricted plot card so that it’s accessible on-demand. Retaliation! (ASoSilence) could work because we actually want to marshall second, and the two-claim will help reach victory faster. However, with hyperkneel it’s hard to avoid using Castellan of the Rock (BoRF), so let’s keep Retaliation on the back burner for now.

We could go with a lineup of standard control plots like Cersei’s Scheme, Shadows and Spiders, Wildfire Assault (Core), Marched to the Wall, Rule by Decree and Breaking and Entering. Having a second reset besides Valar keeps our opponent’s board manageable; it’s easier to kneel three characters rather than five or six or seven.

Alternatively, let’s consider the standard City plot lineup. At the Gates, King’s Landing Coup, and City of Lies are all potential opening plots. Then A City Beseiged, City of Sin, City of Soldiers and City of Spiders follow in roughly that order. The downside is that Negotiations won’t work with other Cities, although ideally we’ll have a large hand anyways and can live without it.

Finally, there are plots like Art of Seduction, Game of Thrones, Forgotten Plans, and Frey Hospitality that should be considered in almost any Lannister deck, as well as l two-claim plots like Men of Pride and Twist of Fate which can help solidify a small board advantage and turn it into a decisive lead. These options are all meta-dependent and by no means auto-includes.

Non-Unique Characters

Lannisport Weaponsmith, Lannisport Moneylender, Carrion Bird, Little Bird and Doubting Septa probably all make the cut. Just keep in mind that they all have a single icon and could hamper our ability to declare and defend challenges. Any Lannister deck will feature a swarm of Allies no matter what, so you can almost disregard that trait, which makes House Payne Enforcer (deadly for unopposed) and Brothel Guard (LotR) (kneel redundancy) more enticing. Other cheap potential characters include Painted Dogs, Lion Herald, Cersei’s Attendant, and Lannisport Steward. Next we have Yezzan’s Grotesquerie, Enemy Informer, and of course the powerhouse pair Arbor Guardsman and Castellan of the Rock. Finally, Fleet from The Arbor (RotK) brings more deadly and high strength to the table. It also combo’s spectacularly with Brothel Guard, but with no-agenda decks on the rise there is substantial risk.

Unique Characters

The unqiue characters are mostly how we’re going to actually win challenges. They're fairly self-explanatory so I'll just make a list. You’ll want to run most of the following characters, with Tommen, Ser Arys, Margaery, Cersei, and Jaime having two copies.

Penny
Tommen Baratheon
Joffrey Baratheon (PotS)
Myrcella Lannister
Lancel Lannister (holy)
Chella, Daughter of Cheyk
Shagga, Son of Dolf
Ser Balon Swann
Margaery Tyrell
Ser Arys Oakheart
Syrio Forel
Varys
Qyburn
Tyrion Lannister (CoS)
Ser Jaime Lannister (renown or non-kneeling)
Cersei Lannister (non-kneeling)
Hugor Hill
Archmaester Marwyn (MotA) (with City plots only)

Locations

The non-economy locations are simple. Volantis Inn, Lannisport Brothel, and Lannisport Tourney Grounds kneel dudes. The Iron Throne is too good not to include in duplicate. Golden Tooth Mines is the main draw engine outside of TLV. Run three and get two out ASAP so you’ll draw cap every turn.

As far as economy goes, I like to run a single Lannisport Treasury just because it’s so good on setup and we can afford to draw a less-than useful card later. If you go shadows-heavy then Kingdom of Shadows fits nicely.

Attachments

Increased Levy, Widow's Wail (LotR), and of course 3x Enslaved all make the cut in my version, but there’s definitely room for customizing. Longclaw (ASitD) brings renown to speed things up. Devious Intentions gives additional stealth to help get unopposed. Slander and Lies (HtS) could fit just because we have the draw so why not include a silver bullet? Just experiment here and let me know what works for you!

Events

The events are where you want to tighten the screws and cut the fat. I run 3x A House Divided, 3x Distraction, 3x You Killed the Wrong Dwarf, 2x The Only Game that Matters (LotR), and 2x Nightmares. They’re all flexible and can be used offensively or defensively.

Other options include Paper Shield, Dissension, Condemned by the Council, The Bear and the Maiden Fair, A Lannister Pays His Debts and Terminal Schemes. If you include more holy characters and influence then Desperate Measures, Judged by the Father, Supported by the Smith, and Walk of Shame (ARotD) are all viable. Just be careful not to stretch the deck too thin and dilute the kneel effects with other jank.

Conclusion

By my count Lanni TLV has still only made the cut at a Regional 4x compared to 30x for Greyjoy TLV and 16x for Targ TLV. You’re facing an uphill battle but in a difficult environment. Vigilant and Vegneful both get around kneel effects. Burn, ambush, and cancel all pose problems. I'd love to hear some Lanni TLV success stories, especially against those matchups.
  • Shenanigans, Archrono and bigfomlof like this


10 Comments

Photo
LorasTyrell
Jun 26 2013 03:22 PM
This deck usually spits on the board so many non unique that it's almost impossible to stop for many decks, but it suffers a lot other TLV decks because it's incapable to control them. In case there are just a few characters on the board, Cersei Schemes+City Plots+more kneel effects is a very annoying control.
I like hyper-kneel as much as the next guy, but I don't see the benefit out of running TLV with Lannister aside from as a thought experiment to see what such a deck might look like - in practice it's the house that least benefits from additional card draw unless the draw gets around the draw cap, which TLV doesn't do. Using your agenda slot up to gain a single copy of an effect that you already have in-house on a 1-gold attachment, a 1-gold character, and a 2-gold location at the cost of diluting your deck (thus making the card draw that's your house's advantage less effective) just seems counter-productive.

The houses that best benefit from TLV are the ones that have a seemingly endless supply of efficient, cheap characters but little in the way of normal "draw" because they gain the most from the agenda's benefit and hurt the least from the drawback.
Photo
LorasTyrell
Jun 26 2013 03:35 PM
In Italy the meta is rather different than in the US (and partly different from Europe in general) and the strenght that this deck showed was that Lannisters' draw was abused to out-draw an environment where 7 decks out of top8 decks were running TLV. If Martell, Stark and whatever got 1 more card from the agenda and sometimes some more from their usual tools, Lanni TLV instead could easily hit draw cap every single turn from turn 1.

Even if, in the end, many Lanni TLV performed well but didn't win the tourney :)
Photo
scantrell24
Jun 26 2013 05:29 PM
Reldan, I agree with your general points, but the fact remains that TLV's benefit of an extra card from turn 1 is still extremely powerful, and the downside of running an 85 card deck doesn't hurt much thanks to the redundancy of available kneel effects. Also, it's not like Lanni has another powerhouse build right now that's making waves in the meta.
Photo
Shenanigans
Jun 26 2013 09:24 PM
I think this deck has legs, but that it falters compared to other Lannister builds. For example, at our recent Chicago regional our top 8 featured four Lannister decks, PBBT, HoD, CoS, and No Agenda. You're very right about the "disadvantage" of TLV being almost a non-issue for a Hyperkneel build, but Lannister in general (from what I've seen) benefits the least from TLV, as it has the most consistent draw already. Maybe this will change as Greyjoy, with increased location control, continues to dominate.
Where is the chapter spoilers for "A Journey's End"?!?
I think a key card to Lannister TLV is Golden Tooth Vaults, if you are at the draw cap every turn (and you should) you won't be playing everything, so getting gold from your card surplus seems really nice. It allows some cool plays with negotiations if you think the opponent is playing it, or if you don't run cities, better yet with dragonbone dagger, which is a nice add-on in a 85 card deck...

Where is the chapter spoilers for "A Journey's End"?!?


They are up already at agotcards.org

My initial thoughts has it as the most underwhelming pack of the cycle. A disappointment right before Gen Con.

They are up already at agotcards.org

My initial thoughts has it as the most underwhelming pack of the cycle. A disappointment right before Gen Con.

I'd be surprised if Support of the Smith doesn't make waves. The best prayer by far and something that helps every house except Greyjoy.
    • erocklawell likes this
Photo
LorasTyrell
Jun 27 2013 07:10 AM

They are up already at agotcards.org

My initial thoughts has it as the most underwhelming pack of the cycle. A disappointment right before Gen Con.

I agree with you if you play Lannister, other houses have got some nice stuff :P