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Forging the Chain - Being Competitive in Your Meta
May 17 2012 05:05 AM |
TinyGrimes
in Game of Thrones
Small Council Forging the Chain TinyGrimes
Being Competitive in Your Meta (or Getting over your fear of Proxies)
Welcome back to another installment of Forging the Chain. This week I'm going to discuss a topic which is critical for newer players, fielding competitive decks for your meta. Depending on the group of players you play with, this can be accomplished in different ways. If you are playing with a few friends and you each have a core set and one house box, go ahead and build the best deck you can from that limited pool. I've taken this approach with a number of games and it has been quite fun. However, after a while the limited aspect of the game became rather boring and we moved on to other games. If you are playing with a group whose goal is to play the best decks you can and improve your skills, you are going to need access to all of the cards, and that's what the remainder of this column will focus on.
The most obvious way to acquire all the cards is to buy them all. If you are going to take this approach I highly recommend buying them in bulk. You will often see people on the FFG trade forum selling entire collections. You may also find people selling their cards in larger quantities on Ebay. However, I would not recommend this approach to a newer players, unless that player has oodles of extra cash. For you have no way of knowing how long you will stick with any game which you just discovered. I suggest making sure you plan on sticking around long term before making such a large investment.
A second option is to play exclusively online via OCTGN until you can isolate a deck you want to play and then attempt to acquire all the cards in your deck. However, this is difficult as singles are not easily purchased. You will essentially be isolating which chapter packs contain the cards you need for your deck, and I can assure you it will be many of them. Also, you are limiting yourself to playing exclusively online while you try to determine what you should purchase.
The third option is what I recommend: buying what you can afford and using proxies for the rest. Let me start by saying I realize many newer players were turned off by that last statement, but please bear with me as I elaborate why proxies are necessary. I'll begin with my own experience. When I started the game, I bought one core set and the Stark house box. I built a terrible deck with it that I hoped would be just competitive enough to learn the game. I joined our local group of guys for some games and promptly got whipped. In addition to being new to the game, everyone in my meta owns every card and builds high quality decks. Moreover, one is a world champion and many others have either won or placed in the top four in Regionals. It was clear that a deck made of such a limited card pool just wasn't going to cut it. So, I began looking at the chapter packs to determine what I needed to buy to be competitive. I quickly realized I had to purchase a bunch of chapter packs and those locked me into one deck which I was building with no experience with the game. I was at a bit of a loss. What was I supposed to do now?
Thankfully, I noticed one of the top level players was using a proxy. So, I asked him about it and he informed me that while he owned every card, he had many decks and some used the same cards. So, he had to use some proxies. After further questioning it became clear that since singles are not readily available, proxies are perfectly acceptable, except in tournaments. The next week I built a deck online and then made proxies for the cards I did not own. I printed out about 40 cards for the deck. Yes, this is a staggering amount of proxies in one deck, but it helped me make a reasonable deck. I still lost most of my games, but I was able to have better cards and more answers for other good cards.
Ok, so you are still not convinced you should use proxies huh? Let me lay out in a more straightforward manner why you should use them.
1.) I'm not advocating not buying the cards. FFG has produced an excellent game and I think you should strive to purchase every card. However, unless you are independently wealthy, a gradual purchase may be necessary. I suggest buying every pack as it is released, one core set, and the house box for the house you are using. Then try to purchase packs here and there which supplement your decks. For me, this was easy. I started playing a lot of maester decks and bought the maester cycle. This provided me with about 45 of the cards for my deck.
2.) Everyone uses proxies. This is not Magic where some people make their living off of selling singles, and proxies are frowned upon. In AGOT they are encouraged. If your play group has not come around to their use, please have them read this article or send me a message.
3.) Even players who own every card use proxies. Samwell Tarly is a critical card in any season deck, and there is only one of him in his pack. So, if you want to build a Greyjoy choke deck and two summer decks are you really going to buy six packs of The Raven's Song just to acquire those six copies of Samwell Tarly? Of course not, you will buy two packs and proxy the rest.
4.) Two critical chapter packs are completely unavailable. In order to truly learn this game you will have to play season decks and the black and white ravens are gone. So, you will have to print them or never play (or learn how to play against) critical decks like Greyjoy Winter, Martell Summer, etc.
5.) In order to improve, you need to learn how to build and play tier 1 decks. To be honest, this is simply not possible without owning nearly all of the cards. You may be able to cobble together an effective deck that competes with most tier 2 decks, but tier 1 decks are just too efficient. In order to truly compete in this game, you must be able to pilot a tier 1 deck and know how to play against them. If your meta only plays tier 2 decks, you will be in for a rude awakening when you encounter a slew of tier 1 decks at a major tournament.
Making Proxies: I create a Word document with .5 inch margins on all four sides. Then I search for the card on Card Game Db and mouse over the name. I right click on the image that appears and copy it. Then I paste it into the Word document. Next I right-click on the image and choose format picture. I click on the size tab and make the height 3.45". I'm able to fit 8 cards per page. I then bring the file to my local copy shop and have them print it, making sure scaling is off. Voila, beautiful color proxies.
Well, hopefully I have convinced you to build the best deck you can. There's nothing I enjoy more than facing a high quality deck, by someone who has scoured every card searching for the most efficient use of their resources. Until next time keep improving!
Tiny Grimes recently migrated over to AGOT, in January 2012. Although he has not played the game long, Tiny spends far too much of his time playing and thinking about the game. He has played in two tournaments, placing first in a 15 person local event and 3rd in the first regional of the 2012 season (32 person event - Kingdom Con).
- Rave, Reager and Prydain like this
30 Comments
Sometimes I don't have time to run over to the store and I just type the text into Word. But those are difficult and annoy other players sometimes. Because most people are visual creatures and associate all the stats with a particular image. However, it can be funny watching a world champion say "wait what does that card do. Oh it's ..."
If you want to use certain cards and they can be easily purchased, then I say buy them. If you are unable to purchase the cards then borrow them or try and build decks without those cards. That isn't meant in a harsh way at all - but if the cards can be easily purchased, I really think they should be.
I can't agree with the assessment that one must learn how to play a Top Tier deck in order to improve. I think a player can easily improve without the use of proxies. The problem of building a deck with a limited card pool is a real problem, but it actually is a good challenge and will do more, in my opinion, to improve someone's deck building skills than printing off a proxy will because they have to solve the problem and look for contingencies - in some cases there aren't any contingencies and you have to learn how to play around your deck's weaknesses. There are a good number of players out there who don't use proxies at all and work to build their decks with the pool that they have and they're actually quite competitive, honestly (especially in a local meta).
If someone is working to become tournament worthy... well, proxies aren't allowed at tournaments, so is it really helping you to use proxies? Again, I have to say no.
Please know that I mean no disrespect here - I just respectfully disagree with Tiny on this one.
If you want to become a higher level player you must learn to play with and against good decks. Yes, you may be able to excel in your local meta with a tier 2 deck because the others in your meta are playing tier 2 decks, but this doesn't mean you've become a topflight player. A good example of this is the Fresno meta which, as I understand it, is a newer meta with a limited card pool. They are having a good time with the game and looking to improve. They hosted a regional and SoCal brought 6 people to the event who all play with and against tier 1 decks. As expected the top 4 was all SoCal players.
Proxies aren't legal at tournaments, but for these events you borrow the cards you need or go on a spending spree. I find myself buying 2-3 chapter packs before every tournament and then borrowing about 12 cards that I still need.
Proxies are a good thing, use them!
I mean, I've only been playing for 5 (almost 6) months now and I get that proxies can certainly help make the game more enjoyable for new players, but I'm concerned about hurting the game. I want more people to invest in the game so it continues to expand and there's a concept of people in your meta who have put money into the game and they work to expand the pool of players because they've invested.
Again, my experience is limited, but my fears are that proxies could encourage abuse. If you've not found that to be the case, then I concede. I've considered allowing proxies for the seasonal packs already so that people can try their hand at the seasons, but I'm very hesitant about letting it expand from there.
Let's look at the playgroup level. I definitely don't feel very rich. When I am playing against newbies that use decks with 50% proxies why should I bother to buy new cards? Why should THEY even bother to have a single original card? You just described how convenient it is to get all the images from cardgamedb.
It seems to me you are taking the "proxies don't hurt anyone" approach. I evaluate the game before I spend money on it therefore I use proxies. If this approach is fine I think I should "evaluate" video games also before buying them. They are darn expensive and I have only limited resources.
I wonder why FFG is so stubborn not to provide us with PDFs of the cards. Would be good for the game cause they would expand the player base. More players in the environment means more competition and all of us would become better players cause we would face more different decks.
As ridiculous or polemic these questions may seem I think you should have really good answers for every single one of them.
I feel like, if you're the kind of player that needs to have tier 1 decks, you're going to go to a tournament eventually, so there's no harm in printing proxies. If you're new, this game IS really expensive to get in to, and it's no fun getting repeatedly rocked by your friends when all you have is the core set.
Also, you should never have to pay 100+ dollars for a pack. This summer/winter thing is getting ridiculous. Also, if I'm not 100% sure I want to play a certain deck in the next tournament, I'm not going to buy 3 packs for something like To Be a Wolf, just to see if I like it.
On another note, I do agree with doulos2k. Playing with what you have, and not jumping from top-tier deck to top-tier deck, can give you a more fundamental understanding of what's good and what isn't and why.
Having said all that, if I ran a tournament I would allow proxies for any card that is not readily available. That means I would allow proxies of cards like the black raven, white raven, maester of the sun, etc. However, I don't run tournaments so that point is moot.
Doulos - I think this is an especially important point. The best way to get people to invest in the game and expand your meta is by making the game enjoyable for them. If they have a much more limited card pool than the more experienced members they are at a double disadvantage. It's hard enough not having the same level of experience and skill, but not having cards to make a competitive deck makes this situation unbearable. I know for me, had proxies not been allowed I would have quickly dropped the game. I was simply not able to plunk down the 500 dollars needed to compete in my highly competitive meta.
Think of proxies as a way to both grow your skill as a player and grow your meta.
Mischraum, are you Ulrich from GenCon? If so, we had a chance to chat for a while between games. I was probably wearing the SD Chargers football (not soccer) jersey. If not... my bad!
Regarding proxies at local tournies, DeathJester and I usually secure some sort of prize support from FFG--typically one of the LCG Night game kits. We'll then post in the tourney rules/advertisements that "since we have official prize support from FFG, no proxies will be allowed." I think many other tournament organizers (and players) follow this same logic.
I can get behind this. I think it supports the spirit of what Tiny is saying about making the game fun and learning how to be competitive (which is an idea I understand and support), but it puts a solid expectation that you really need to be buying the cards.
Right now, in my meta, I hold the only full set of cards, so I tend to make a lot of walk on decks for people to learn with. I try to make them as competitive as possible - but that's me. They're my cards and I have no issue with helping people along. That said, even with my complete set, there's no way to give everybody what they'd really need. I have a lot of Carrion Birds, but I can't support 4 decks worth. Proxies could be helpful in these cases.
In the end, I'm arguing a case I can't support. By building decks for people to play every game night - I'm doing with real cards what Tiny is suggesting with proxies. They've got the same incentive as anyone else to not buy any cards - ever since every time they show up there's a deck waiting for them to play. I think I'll suggest to my meta that we take up what Darksbane's group does.
Yes, I am Ulrich from Gen Con. If there was a foto on your profile I could recognise you as well...
Regarding proxies in tournaments don't think what I write is far fetched... I am TO for a Call of Cthulhu Regional in Munich in about 2 weeks and was asked by one of the players who already attended some tournaments for this game if proxies were allowed.
I'm not saying anyone would ever doctor a proxy, but I know one way to make sure they don't
As for proxies in casual games, sure. I don't even care if they're just pieces of paper as long as all of the important text is there, and readable.
There's, of course, a group of people who will see it as "I don't have to pay to play the game" with no intention of buying any of the cards they're proxying, but there's no stopping those people really. As long as it's frowned upon, it doesn't matter that much, because their alternative isn't going to be "buying the cards for realz", it's going to be "I'm gonna go find something I can exploit for free". For the majority of the rest of us though, playing with proxies is a motivation to go and get the cards for real. Anyone who wants to play at a tournament level will have to anyway, and, at the risk of being slightly OCD about it, it just looks better.
Beyond that, as was mentioned, they're very useful for plots. I have, like, 8 decks, and 2 copies of Valar Morghulis. Either I'm gonna have multiple decks compromised, I'm not going to be able to have the decks built at once, or I'm going to proxy Valar. It's a pretty simple choice, really.
The one other side that some experienced players mentioned is when you are building 10 different decks, you need proxies since you can't support 10 full playsets.
While I do understand the argument for allowing proxies in tournament play, I can't get behind it. From a sales standpoint, it's silly for FFG to allow proxies in tournament play, but more than that I feel that there's a certain cheapness to it. Imagine a Regional Championship decklist that had (proxy) written after a bunch of cards. It's not an elitist thing, in fact it bothers me when card availability is a limiting factor for players, I just don't like the idea of proxies in a big tournament setting. People can always borrow the real cards if they need to.
I am trying to make some proxies and I don't really understand your method! Could you please clarify a little more your method? First of all .5 margines?
Second, I didn't get what you did with the right click on the name of the card but i just saved it in my computer and then dragged in Word.
Then I changed the height to 3.45 but the width? Also, I wasn't really able to fit 8 cards in a single page. Could you possibly tell me exactly the " of your pages?
Thanks in advance!
PS: Great post, convinced me it's no crime to use some proxies!
Instead of saving each picture, I just right click copy on it, but either way would work.
In Word, when I resize the height to be 3.45 it resizes the width for me to 2.41.
This fits 6 vertical cards on the page. Then I create two more and using the picture toolbar I rotate them 90 degrees. This will allow 2 to fit at the bottom.
When printing them, make sure scaling is turned off.
That should give you 8 cards per page. Any followup questions feel free to ask.