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Darksbane

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Forgotten Plans - Forgotten Draw

Small Council Forgotten Plans jmccarthy

DRAW. It's what makes a good deck good. It's what keeps bad decks from reaching levels of mediocrity. Every single deck you build needs to have at least one solid "draw engine," and if possible, more than one. By "draw engine," I'm referring to a card that can be used on multiple turns, something more than just a Parting Blow.

Any intermediate level player knows about, and uses: Sam and Ravens, Val, the Knights agenda, the Summer agenda, King's Landing, Jhogo, Meraxes, Longship Iron Victory, Viper's Bannermen, Valyrian Steel Link, Bay of Ice and/or Gold Tooth Mines. These are the most common, and most easily used draw engines in Thrones.

This article aims to educate you as to five less commonly used draw engines, and the reasons why you should consider them:

[CRB='forums/uploads/1281901134/med_gallery_11_79451.jpg']Xaro's Home
This card requires the most deck-dedication of the entire list, but is also the most powerful. For a 0 cost location, you get the ability to draw up to three cards per turn by using the influence you're already running. Make sure to run Lady Daenerys's Chambers (Core) to recur those attachments, and a few simple attachments can be used to draw an endless supply of cards. My personal favorites with Xaro's Home: Khal Drogo's Tent (Core), Unburnt (QoD), Bowl of Brown (LoW), Hrakkar Pelt (RotO), Sun Stroke (QoD), Court Advisor (PotS), or Flame-Kissed (Core). Use early, use often. For a crazy idea, what about running Xaro's Home OOH in Baratheon or Martell?[/CRB]

[CRB='forums/uploads/1281900855/med_gallery_13_105955.jpg']Pyromancer's Cache
Of course everyone thinks of running Pyro's Cache out of Lannister, but what about Stark and Baratheon? Or even Greyjoy or Targaryen? Sure three gold is a big investment (1 with Alliance or 2 with Tyrosh), and sure Maesters and their Tin Link must be considered, but drawing two extra cards per turn is often worth the risk. Think of Jeyne Westerling, Robb Stark; Robert/Renly/Stannis Baratheon (try adding Jeyne to Baratheon while you're running Alliance); Alannys, Euron, Balon; and Daenerys Targaryen. These are characters most decks are already running, and you can add Mance Rayder too. If you need draw, consider Pyro's, and be sure to put it a limited location to protect yourself from Price of War.[/CRB]

[CRB='forums/uploads/1295669265/med_gallery_73_59140.jpg']The Dreadfort
Most Stark decks already run The Bastard's Elite (RoR), and many run The Flayed Men (DB) as well. Damon Dance-For-Me (VD) and Roose Bolton (DB) should be considered in any Stark deck, and Steelshanks Walton (OSaS) is better than most people realize. Even without running the "crazy" Bolton cards - Steelshanks Reserves and Bolton Loyalist. Add in the fact that Bolton Refugee (run x3 in almost all Stark decks) can be STR 3 with Robb Stark, Song of Summer, or Winterfell Castle (grab the Castle and the Dreadfort with Maege Mormont, and the Dreadfort can be drawing you some serious cards without the need for a dedicated Bolton deck. As a side bonus, use The Kindly Man on an opponent's non-unique Bolton in their discard or dead pile, and draw another card with the Dreadfort![/CRB]

[CRB='forums/uploads/1287540757/med_gallery_67_95021.jpg']Hollow Hill
Most people assume this card can only be effectively run out of neutral house, or with Treaty/Alliance agendas, but imagine running Hollow Hill with dual-house characters. You won't be able to run 6-house locations, but you could easily use cards like Ser Aerys Oakheart, Joffrey Baratheon, The Hound, Ser Jorah Mormont, River Bandit, Ghost of Winterfell, Royal Guard, Brienne of Tarth, or many more. FFG keeps adding more dual-house characters, so your opportunity to use this card will continue to grow.[/CRB]

[CRB='forums/uploads/1281900855/med_gallery_30_356821.jpg']Fishmonger's Square
This one is a little more difficult to use, but you're also going to be desperate for draw in Greyjoy, so hear me out: Most Greyjoy decks will already be running Euron Crow's Eye (TGM), but consider these common Greyjoy cards that also have a discard ability: Theon Greyjoy (WLL), The Knight (TftH), Finger Dance (WLL), and Bloodthirsty Crew. You could also mix in any of these cards often found in non-"raiding" decks: Training Vessel (TIoR), Raiding the Reach (TGM) (totally underused), Desperate Looters (SA), Drowned Disciple, Stowaway, or Priest of the Drowned God (KotS) - Fishmonger's doesn't even require it to be your opponent's deck![/CRB]

That's my two cents, can't wait to see what ideas everyone comes up with!

-Jimm
  • Archrono and FioFioFio like this


27 Comments

Bolton Refugee do not work with dreadfort even if they are bumped in strength.
It does as long as it is buffed by a constant effect it works

Can I trigger The Dreadfort (Dreadfort
Betrayal 105) when I play a Bolton Refugee
(Refugees of War 83) with a printed STR of 2,
and have Winterfell Castle (Core 25) in play,
which gives the Bolton Refugee +1 STR?


Qualifying characteristics of cards are checked
at the time a Response effect is triggered. In
this example, the Bolton character enters play
and has its STR raised to 3 (by the constant
effect on Winterfell Castle) when it enters
play, which occurs before the Response effect
is triggered. When the Response is triggered,
the character’s STR is 3, and it has just been
played, so you can use The Dreadfort to draw
a card.

another option in shadow decks, or int heavy decks , kings landing and kingdom of shadows, for 2 cards a round

http://www.cardgamed...ngs-landing-sas
http://www.cardgamed...of-shadows-kots
Xaro's Home (Core) is great in a deck with Harried by Dragons (VM).
However I think that Hollow Hill (ASoSilence) or The Dreadfort (DB) can be considered a draw engine only in very specific decks.
    • ShadowcatX2000 likes this
About Hollow Hill: are you sure the condition is fulfilled when you play an in-house dual-house character?
It should, the character has an affiliation that does not match anything else you have. Assuming it's the only character with that second house.
    • jackmerridew likes this
You just have to remember that it's checking for any affiliation that does not match ("an"), it's not saying that it can't match any other affiliations.
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slothgodfather
Oct 08 2012 03:05 PM
Maegi Crone (BtW) can also a great source of draw for burn decks.
Yeah, I think the difference is the lack of "out of house" like the kingdom locations have.

Good find BTW. Sounds like this and dual house characters are an interesting idea to build around.
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accountdeleted
Oct 08 2012 05:04 PM
Finally Jimm publishes articles about his crazy ideas! :rolleyes: Appreciated!
Thanks livingend, this is my first attempt at an article. I'm hoping to write some more. Of all the draw ideas above, Hollow Hill is my favorite for crazy ideas. -Jimm
Satin + Fishmonger's Square can give you selective draw as well.
    • theCrow likes this

another option in shadow decks, or int heavy decks , kings landing and kingdom of shadows, for 2 cards a round


I've tried King's Landing so many times. 4 gold is just so expensive, not to mention the possible penalty with an opponent running random King's Landing locations (Streets, Flea Bottom, Chambers, etc.), and somehow flopping 3-4 KL locations. Makes me cry.
Sorry. I meant you can use Satin to see if you or the opponent has an attachment/event with Satin and choose to discard it in order to trigger Fishmonger's Squarehole.

You just have to remember that it's checking for any affiliation that does not match ("an"), it's not saying that it can't match any other affiliations.


Just to be sure, I've sent a question to FFG, I'll post the answer here.

The exact question:
I'm playing house Stark and I have Hollow Hill (Response: After you play a character with an affiliation that does not match any other card you control (including your House card), draw 1 card.) in play. I play Ser Jorah Mormont (Princes of the Sun), who has the Targaryen and Stark affiliations. Can I trigger Hollow Hill's response (assuming I have no cards with the Targaryen affiliation in play before playing him)?

And here is the answer from Damon Stone:
The question to ask is does the card you played have your house affiliation or an affiliation that matches any other card. Ser Jorah Mormont does match your house card so you do not get to draw.
Nice article! Great that you mentioned Xaro's Home - I have used it for some Targ builds and think it is great. LOVE to see it in Setup.

I think every Stark deck should (and probably does) run a copy of Ser Kyle Condon (APS). Great, easy draw!

Perhaps a nod needs to be given to other, non-draw "card advantage" techniques. I've been playing for a while with a Stark Defense deck that uses stuff like Widow's Watch (GotC), Maege Mormont (AHM), Maester Luwin (FtC), and Shores of Ny Sar (VM) to get some really decent card advantage.

And here is the answer from Damon Stone:
The question to ask is does the card you played have your house affiliation or an affiliation that matches any other card. Ser Jorah Mormont does match your house card so you do not get to draw.

Thanks for the heads up Khudzin. I hate rulings like this though because as the card is worded I don't see how he reached that conclusion.

Thanks for the heads up Khudzin. I hate rulings like this though because as the card is worded I don't see how he reached that conclusion.

I agree. Either that card needs an errata to say what it should say, or Damon is saying that these dual-House characters do not have two House affiliations, but only one (which is capable of matching two different House affiliations). But since we know that neutral cards have no House affiliation at all, it seems weird not to allow these cards to have two.

Just one of those points when he doesn't seem to really, truly, know what he is doing. And he was so cocky in that interview...
If it helps anybody understand the logic, I asked some questions about Damon's interpretation on the FFG Rules Board here.
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slothgodfather
Oct 09 2012 08:17 PM
Does Braavos (VD) reduce Brienne of Tarth (PotS) by 2 if you are playing Bara? Or just by 1 for the lady trait?

Just because 1 of her affiliations is OOH does not mean you played an OOH character. You did play a card with the Bara affiliation though.

Now lets remove Braavos from the scenario, you are a Bara player who just played Brienne of Tarth and have no other Stark cards in play...

The house checks all affiliations of the character to the rest of your controlled affiliations. As soon as your answer is "yes" to the checking of the first affiliation (Bara) does not mean you get to ignore the answer of "no" to checking her second affiliation. So, did you play a character that didn't have a matching affiation? yes, and no. + and -. Which always makes a - (negative). So no, you did not play a character that did not match any currently controlled affiliations.
Well KotM's and Sloth's answer makes it easier to see where Damion is coming from but I still think it is incredibly poor wording on the card if that is the intent. There are better ways to write abilities like that in order to prevent this type of confusion.
    • OKTarg likes this
The Free Cities question is different, because Brienne will never be out of house, and your house card matches Brienne. Out of house is designed to look only at whether there is any house affiliation that matches, and the others are superfluous.

Hollow Hill is written completely differently: "an affiliation that does not match." Brienne has two affiliations: an affiliation that matches, and an affiliation that does not match.
-Call this a prime example of an Epic FFG Fail.

If it helps anybody understand the logic, I asked some questions about Damon's interpretation on the FFG Rules Board here.


I believe the exact logic is: "a long time ago we decided something about a card that doesn't exist anymore. Rather than analyzing the new card, which is written substantially differently, we applied the old rule from 10 years ago."
I do not like old rulings that don't make very much sense with current card text.
    • jmccarthy likes this

I've tried King's Landing so many times. 4 gold is just so expensive, not to mention the possible penalty with an opponent running random King's Landing locations (Streets, Flea Bottom, Chambers, etc.), and somehow flopping 3-4 KL locations. Makes me cry.


It works really well in a dedicated Shadows deck with other KL locations, very easy for Stark, Targ, Lanni and even Bara, not useful in GJ and Martell. 4-cost is split so its easier to play; I've never regretted paying for it and it usually gets me 2-3 extra cards per Round.