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Kingsmoot Pack Review
Jan 19 2018 10:00 PM |
scantrell24
in Game of Thrones
Our staff has put together a first blush analysis of the newly released “Kingsmoot†chapter pack. Answers to frequently asked rules questions can be found on the individual card pages on thronesdb.com. Cards are listed in numeric order and scored on a scale ranging from one through five, with five being the best possible score. Let us know in the comments how you feel about the cards in this pack!Now onto the reviews, starting with....
Ramsay Snow (3.3 Average)
emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
His response being a sacrifice effect makes this worth it. With the likes of Arianne, Lannister Harrenhal and other out of marshalling put-into-play effects the response can work like an on demand Marched to the Wall. Nedly to make him non-loyal of course, but essential as he’s a removal tool that’s accessible to factions who don’t have much.
OKTarg - 2 out of 5
He’s fun. Super, duper fun. But, a five-cost unique for the attrition effect of a North Remembers (basically) is….steep. His icons are nice, and redundancy is good, but since sacrifice decks and even really heavy attrition decks aren’t great right now, neither then is Ramsay.
scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Stark has plenty of sacrifice effects to fuel Fat Cat now, between Ramsay, Jon Snow, and North Remembers. What Stark sacrifice needs are chuds with “leave play†abilities that you want to sacrifice. Of course, Ramsay really shines in attrition and/or steal stuff decks, paired with Recruiter for the Watch, Marched, Varys, etc.
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
Used in marshalling his ability is decent - I can see it getting very powerful if you have played out Marched to remove their chud, marshal first, play a chud, then Ramsey. But where he will really shine for me is out of Stark Lion, where Lannister Harrenhal can cheat him into play during challenges at any time of your choosing, such as, say, after military claim has applied. Bonus marks for then using your Winterfell Crypts to take out another character. In a regular Stark deck I’d still say he’s a safe 1 of.
Joe From Cincinnati - 4 out of 5
I could definitely see a really nice deck that just whittles your opponent’s board down to nothing with this character. Especially when combined with the likes of his father Roose and either Harrenhal (though Lannister Harrenhal is better for him). Combine with The North Remembers and you can have a lot of fun seeing your opponent’s board disappear right before your eyes
. Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
We liked House Umber Berserkers in first edition, but this is worse - it costs more and is weaker, plus is unique to boot. Sacrifice engine needs cheaper tools than this, and the attrition engine has cheaper tools than this.
The Dreadfort (1.9 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
The way I see the sacrifice tech distributed through the card pool currently doesn’t make this ideal unless you are explicitly building a Banner Wolf deck which is then packed with sacrifice effects to maximize stand. That just sounds weird and probably not worth it.
OKTarg - 1 out of 5
Yes, “stand = winâ€, but “hopefully stand something given a very narrow range of conditions†does not. And that’s where we’re at here with the Dreadfort. I get that they’re trying to make us banner, but the density of stuff you need for Stark Sack doesn’t leave a ton of space for you. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong since stand really is pretty spectacular, but I don’t think so.
scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
Stand can be powerful, but the Dreadfort is restricted by both it’s triggering condition and it’s targeting condition. Dreadfort Maester, Handmaiden, Jeyne Pool, Salt Wife, Veteran Builder, and Wildling Scout are some of the best on-demand sacrifices to fulfill the trigger.
Von Wibble - 2.5 out of 5
As I was saying above, Stark Lion looks to be a thing, but unlike with Ramsey this could work well in most Stark Banner X decks, as well as Brotherhood. Stand is very powerful as we know, even if restricted to a portion of your character base. However, there aren’t enough House Bolton characters around for decks based around Stark characters to really benefit, and if you want a Catelyn based sacrifice deck with Robb Stark and Jon Snow you will need to run a good number of Stark characters, who do not benefit, making this a bit more narrow in its application than I’d ideally like.
Joe From Cincinnati - 2 out of 5
Hmm...I don’t think there’s a deck for this card yet. Obviously, they really want the Bolton cards to be a fun banner for other factions, especially Lannister, but there are typically easier and cheaper ways to stand characters, if you need to have that mechanic at all. Out of Stark main faction, it becomes even less useful, since you not only already have a good amount of stand available to you, but you also can’t stand your best characters. If there comes a day where you can build a deck primarily out of Bolton characters rather than just a hand full, this may become better out of the main faction but, for now, it may see some play in banners? The problem then becomes finding reliable ways to sacrifice characters other than Ramsay and Roose...
Q&T Curmudgeons - 1 out of 5
The venn diagram of decks that have sufficient self-sacrifice tech to trigger this reliably, are running enough non-Stark characters that you’ll have good targets to stand, and actually need the stand enough that it’ll run a 2-cost location (as opposed to, say, bannering to Targ for Plaza of Pride) is stupendously miniscule. This could cost 0 and probably still be borderline. Do the design team hate Stark Sac tech, or just not understand what it actually needs?
Ser Hyle Hunt (2.0 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
Perhaps better if he was 3 gold and 2 STR instead given how the action is written. Four cost characters need to be fairly impactful and in this case the ability seems like it’ll mostly be useful for removing chump blocks to get unopposed or to hit the 5 STR activation window for an ability. If that’s a real concern then I would think Highgarden is better and apply to more characters.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
I think 1x in a lot of decks will be Ser Hyle’s home. The cheeky unopposed isn’t nothing, and in the instances where you can actually pump him and/or re-use him, he’ll get you some good challenge wins. I happen to be a big fan of the New Garlan, and an effect like this helps in those ‘jousting’ decks. Now, he’s not amazing on his own, but still I think a 3 feels about right.
scantrell24 - 1.5 out of 5
The idea is cool, but there’s just too many restrictions. Mr. Hunt’s mediocre strength and expensive/situational ability make him binder fodder almost certainly. One potential application is to use Mare in Heat for strong opposing characters, and Hunt’s ability for weak opponents, enabling him to remove most opposition.
Von Wibble - 1.5 out of 5
For cost 4, the stat line is underwhelming, and the ability is somewhat conditional, costing money as well as requiring you to use a strength pump to really get the most out of it. Standing the character also means you will give your opponent another use of the character, or increased dominance strength. Tyrell have better ways to get the kind of results Hyle is looking for, and better knights than him struggle to make the cut in knights decks.
Joe From Cincinnati - 1 out of 5
Hey look, it’s another Highgarden effect...except now it’s attached to an understatted body, you still have to pay the gold and it has a targeting restriction based on said understatted body.. You would need to put attachments and/or other buffs on this guy to make his strength high enough such that he can send significant bodies home. There are probably better options at this cost slot for knight decks.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 3 out of 5
Very solid for getting rid of chud blockers and for forcing win-by-5s on attack (note Highgarden is defense only). Expensive but Tyrell can afford it. This is only limited per challenge not per phase/round, so the combo with STR pumps and Highgarden Courtiers is real.
The Bounty of Highgarden (3.0 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
Fine but nothing revolutionary. It gives Tyrell options to balance locations and events in deck building depending on the play style or meta. A limited event is interesting because it’s a new thing. Probably best for rush.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
Just as the others have said/will say, it’s a singing-and-dancing Kingsroad. The upside is that it won’t stretch your location base for Political Disaster; the downside is that you can’t set it up and that ‘burst’ economy won’t stretch to the late game. But….I’ve been coming around to Burst a bit more lately since if I can get my big guys down and dupe them it’s pretty much the same as having a strong econ base. I like that this gives a choice for Tyrell decks--I remain one of the few that likes managing my economy in my decks and this is a fun choice for Tyrell.
scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
The latest attempt by FFG to make event economy a thing despite failing the first 10 times. Give them points for persistence. Maybe Bounty is worth a shot in glass cannon-y rush decks that go all-out for turn 2 wins.
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
This is a bit like a Kingsroad in that it provides burst economy - very helpful in melee, not necessarily the best option in joust when compared to Redwyne Straits for example. Comparing to a Kingsroad you net 1 more gold and can’t have it blanked, knelt, or cancelled. However, the Kingsroad can be used on setup, and provides initiative. Nonetheless, there are decks where this is a good option, namely rush decks, and melee decks. I’d say this scores 5 in melee and 3 in joust.
Joe From Cincinnati - 3 out of 5
Some may say this can be compared to Kings Road and it’s slightly favored in that regard. I say you run it and Kingsroad to really abuse early game power rush
. The only downside is that Tyrell already has a ton of gold producing effects already, and most of them can be set up and have an effect each round. But economy is economy and essentially spending a card for 3 gold is not a bad trade by any means.Q&T Curmudgeons - 3 out of 5
Probably generally better than Kingsroads - worse for setup and longterm planning, but a bigger boost, not character-specific, and has combos with Meddling and Annals. That said, Kingsroads aren’t that great anymore, especially out of Tyrell. We can definitely picture an uber-rush deck that runs both though.
Haunted Forest Scout (4.0 Average)
emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
He’s cheap and it’ll be fairly easy to get the effect to enable. I think the not being able to defend is a good balance for the cost/effect though it’ll be one of those things that annoy more frequently than one might imagine. All that said the not kneeling to attack is a big deal; especially as you can have three of them out.
OKTarg - 4 out of 5
Obviously a 0 in a defense deck, but in an aggressive NW deck, these guys are great. Non-kneeling is just as good as standing in most cases, and with the NW synergy such as Pyp or Grenn these guys will have even a larger payoff. If you think of them as a cheaper Crow Killers, I think you’ll be in the right neighborhood.
scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
The Ally trait is more of a drawback now, with Daario around, but I love non-kneelers, especially ones that can easily be turned into tricons and participate in all 3 challenges.
Von Wibble - 3.5 out of 5
Without the ability to defend this guy isn’t going into a classic defense deck, but in a more aggro deck like Rains he becomes a good choice. With Jaremy Rykker and 1 other ranger out you have a non kneeling tricon. Combine this with core Jon Snow and you can make 3 strength 6 challenges without kneeling anyone! Given Nights Watch will often have plenty of cheap characters to back him up the drawback isn’t as bad as it may seem, and I like the direction he pushes Nights Watch in.
Joe From Cincinnati - 4.5 out of 5
I really like this character. I spoiled him on my website and spoke more in depth about him there but, suffice it to say, characters that don’t kneel to attack are pretty fantastic. The condition is extremely easy to meet in a Ranger centric deck and, with Ser Jaremy Rykker, you got yourself a tricon that can attack without kneeling if you have 1 other ranger. If that one other ranger is Pyp or Grenn, then you’re going to get quite a bit of value out of these small characters. Cheap too, so is easy to keep during a Valar Dohaeris. He loses half a point, however, for not bothering to defend the Wall
.Q&T Curmudgeons - 4 out of 5
Sweet, a card that’s interesting! It’s much worse than Green-Apple Knight, but that says more about the Knight than this. There’s even in-faction synergy for non-kneeling characters. Thumbs up from us.
Mole’s Town (3.0 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
The big advantage in my view is that you can hit characters that can’t take attachments with this. It’s weak because it’ll suffer in ability really fast as you use it. Craven, Isle of Ravens + tudor tech is more involved but fairly reliable a with more enduring effect.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
It’s good, but I feel like Haunted Forest is generally better, cheaper, and more setupabble. I’d also rather have a craven, so this is like my sixth or seventh tool I would want to draw. But, that doesn’t make it a bad tool so I think it will go in Wall decks.
scantrell24 - 3.5 out of 5
Probably worth a single slot in defend the Wall decks, but I’m no expert there. The threat of activation will screw with opponent’s challenge order and cause headaches / suboptimal play.
Von Wibble - 3 out of 5
Movable Craven is undoubtedly a potent ability, but you pay more for it, you only get it for 1 round, and you can only use it once per opponents character - unless you combo it with Lyseni Pirate or some such trickery! The Veteran Builder can also allow you to get multiple uses should your opponent have 2 characters you want to stop in a turn.
Joe From Cincinnati - 3.5 out of 5
I also spoiled this card on my website and my opinion hasn’t really changed that much. It’s decent, not great. You can combine this with Craven to piss off your opponent like none other though! However, It’s much more expensive and can only target any given character once unless they spend that gold with a bestow effect (or you can’t target bestowed characters at all until they use up their gold). You can refill your bestow characters with this if you’d like though, so that’s interesting. I don’t think it’ll set the world on fire, but stall is how non builder Wall decks will get back into the meta, and this may be an important part of that comeback
.Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
The token interaction is interesting, but bestow itself is still a bit “meh†here. It’s quite expensive to just be a bit of a nuisance. Redundancy for Craven is solid for decks that are thusly-inclined, though.
Lyseni Pirate (3.3 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
Sounds cool until you think about how infrequently the reaction will be useful. My read is that people don’t tend to stress about draining an opponent’s gold pool and the anti-bestow effect would be great if bestow was more of a thing outside 3-4 cards. He can get stealth fairly easily at least!
OKTarg - 4 out of 5
He’s good! He’s not good enough to slot into mono-fealty kneel/control type decks, but I think he’s interesting enough to go in a lot of different choices. Stealth is always welcome, so while the gold-stealing response is nice but not game changing the keyword should matter a lot.
scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Lyseni Pirate clearly belongs in only one specific archetype, but he’s quite good there, so I’m scoring highly even if that particular build might never be tier 1. I love the Nedliness and artwork too.
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
Clearly another card pushing the Baratheon and Greyjoy alliance. If we assume a warship is in play, which it very likely should be if you include him in your deck, you have a stealth intrigue icon in Baratheon which is pretty rare in itself. The ability is OK, it can make your opponent very wary about saving exactly enough gold on their house card to pay for, say, Vengeance for Elia, leading to them needing to spend less in marshalling to be able to play/bluff powerful challenge phase cards. Where Lyseni Pirate really shines is that he can remove gold from cards in play, making Astapor that bit more manageable, or pushing the Ricasso clock back 1. If Baratheon can get more cards like this I might actually play them one day!
Joe From Cincinnati - 3 out of 5
At first reading this, I thought it said you could transfer gold onto your cards from their gold pool or card, which excited me because it would make bestow effects last longer and be possibly viable. Then I re-read it and saw that it just moves gold from their gold pool or card to your gold pool...So it’s anti-bestow. Just what bestow needed: more reasons not to play it. The warship synergy is nice though. Finally, a theme that I can get behind for Baratheon.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
We like this more than the 2 rating suggests. The utility on the trigger (good against Bestow but non-terrible otherwise) plus conditional Stealth is nice stuff. The problem is it’s not what Bara needs - they’re not lacking for cards for the Banner Kraken (or, more likely, Greyjoy/Stag…) build. They need more STR-efficient bodies for their monofaction decks. The Pirate ain’t that.
Laughing Lord (3.7 Average)
emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
I love intimidate. It’s immensely powerful if you can reliably go first. Not clear why this card is non-loyal if it only works on Baratheon characters. I think a single copy is worth an inclusion in Baratheon Fealty and non-banner decks.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
Intimidate is, in my opinion, one of the best keywords out there. But, most Bara decks want to go second, so what do we do here? I wish it could target any character, but then this would be ridiculous. Time will tell….I may have underrated this or it could be one of those that seems great and nobody ever plays.
scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
On-demand Intimidate is awesome, but Laughing Lord only works on Baratheon characters despite being non-loyal. Also, you trigger it upon declaring the challenge, so your opponent could still successfully defend, and the Intimidate only lasts for one challenge, not the phase.
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
Intimidate is a very strong keyword, allowing you an additional kneel even if you are first player. With this and Bob on the board you should have a good chance to ensure that either your opponent has overcommitted to defense or they have had their best characters knelt anyway. Of course, should your opponent choose to go first to get around this, you can then just use your Rh’llor cards to kneel them anyway. Barristan Selmy looks like a good choice for this effect in particular, as he is a character you want to kneel early anyway.
Joe From Cincinnati - 4 out of 5
Aaaaand...we’re back to more kneel. At least it also synergizes with the warship theme, which is nice. It doesn’t have many conditions (only requiring a baratheon character) which makes it pretty consistent and intimidate wins games. Intimidate is one of the few things that makes going first consistently a bonus and Baratheon is getting a good amount of it now. Thank god you can’t use two intimidates in one challenge...
Q&T Curmudgeons - 4 out of 5
Using our trademarked “if you squint†method, this is kind of like a repeatable kneel effect. Which is exactly the sort of thing Bara needs. It’s not amazing, but if you’re going first it’ll annoy your opponent and what more can one ask for.
Raff the Sweetling (2.5 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
Love the concept, unsure if the reaction will have that much impact. If you are able to get a heavy pillage deck working already then he’s probably an excellent inclusion. Also, I think we are getting close to the point where ally trait is more of a liability, so keep that in mind.
OKTarg - 2 out of 5
Certainly he’s overcosted just for his stats and keywords, and I don’t think he’s pushing any other uniques out. So his playability lives and dies based on what his trigger will get us, and….so far the pillage deck isn’t good. Raff isn’t the one that will make it so, IMO.
scantrell24 - 2.5 out of 5
He’s okay in a Lanni pillage deck, but expensive when compared to the Marauders who have the same keyword, strength and icons for just 4 gold.
Von Wibble - 3 out of 5
A blue card in disguise? He has a decent chance to trigger his ability as most players have 30 plus characters in their decks, and returning claim soak to your opponent’s hand before a military challenge will always be a good result for you. Alternatively you could get an extra use out of your Queen’s Assassin or Greenblood Trader.
Joe From Cincinnati - 2.5 out of 5
Lannister has always been the chief purveyors of weenie hate and Raff continues that tradition. Triggering off of characters being pillaged is nice because they’re typically the most common card type (well...usually...traditionally…). I’m glad that this is done after keywords so it can’t be done prior to military claim. Granted, you could always just do this via Intrigue first and then military afterwards...That said, a 5 cost character that does non-Tyrion-esque stuff is a bit expensive. This card will probably be relegated to mostly theme decks/pillage centric builds, if it even makes it into those decks. Ally is becoming a little more common as well, so Ally hate is something else to look out for...
Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
5 gold for low-stakes randomness? Somehow that’s not an enticing deal to us.
Sparring in Secret (2.7 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
Do you have a knight deck with lots of knights in it? Are you Lanni faction or running Banner Lion? If you said yes to both of those questions then this card is for you! Call today! Supplies are (probably not) limited.
OKTarg - 2 out of 5
Stand is never bad, but in this case, I think we have several better, more reliable options.
scantrell24 - 2.5 out of 5
Voltron Gregor decks are always fun. Sparring in Secret, No Men Like Me, Hand’s Solar and Noble Lineage is all it takes for 3 Gregor swings in a single turn. Throw in Relentless Assault to make it four! Jank aside, this card shouldn’t see much play, unless we get uber powerful Knights in the future.
Von Wibble - 3 out of 5
Pretty obvious this one, a good card as long as you have cheap knights to kneel and powerful knights to stand. I think my favourite use will be a surprise stand for Gregor, especially if I have found a way to give him another icon, but Darkstar below is also a decent target.
Joe From Cincinnati - 3.5 out of 5
In a knight deck you will run it and really enjoy it. There are a good number of cheap knights, one of which is neutral so you don’t even need to banner in a ton from other factions, like Tyrell. Buuuut...realistically this is probably primarily a Tyrell Lion card. It does give you something to do with your Craven’d expensive knights though
.Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
Kneeling a chud to stand a big is a good deal, one worth spending a card and a gold for, and the right decks can build around it very easily. That said, in a game that’s been getting more and more stand effects of late, it’s not exactly the most efficient one - and risks being a dead card if drawn at the wrong time.
Asha Greyjoy (4.9 Average)
emptyrepublic - 5 out of 5
She’s one of those characters that work extremely well on their own and don’t require a theme to make effective. She essentially has insight that improves with time. Tricon, stealth and 5 STR means she can do a lot and activate a lot on her own. The trade off with core Asha is a real thing, but the core version might be regulated to being useful only if you really care about unopposed.
OKTarg - 5 out of 5
She’s amazing. Literally the only downside that I can see is how annoying the response is in real life...counting the discard pile, searching the deck, deciding what to take, shuffling the deck, etc. But ‘better than insight’? Wow!
scantrell24 - 4.5 out of 5
I have to knock a half point because she lacks renown (you could have spent that 7 gold on Balon, Dagmer or Euron instead) and because 7 gold characters are a burden post-Valar Dohaeris. Still, the card advantage is nuts, and a stealth tricon is almost guaranteed to win whatever challenge you need.
Von Wibble - 5 out of 5
Whilst core Asha is a really good card, this version is to me just as worth taking in a deck. The intrigue icon is a big boon to her, and having such potentially powerful card draw helps with an area Greyjoy lack for now. Even in a deck not focused on pillage, a choice of 3-5 cards isn’t bad. When you get to choosing a card out of the top 10+ in your deck, it becomes game winning. If you think your opponent is about to use Valar Morghulis or Put to the Sword, fetch a Risen from the Sea. Or maybe a Milk for their Nymeria? Or Triss Botley to make them much more sad on their Annals turn. So many options.
Joe From Cincinnati - 5 out of 5
I really like this character for no other reason than it helps solidify another deck style. As you pillage more and more cards from your opponent’s deck, you can dig deeper and deeper into your deck to tutor out exactly what you need for whatever scenario you may fall into. It may even enable combo decks in the right circumstances. The Tricon and stealth just add to her flexibility.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 5 out of 5
Easy 5. Worst-case scenario she effectively has Stealth, Pillage and Insight, and that Insight only gets much better throughout the game. It also amuses us how GJ, AKA the faction of power monocons, keeps getting these amazing Rains cards.
Kingsmoot (1.9 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
Insert usual caveats regarding event space here. One of those cards that will work amazingly well one game every so often, but sit in your hand doing nothing in most others. Perhaps a copy or two if you are already focused on dominance tech in the deck.
OKTarg - 1 out of 5
This card….won’t be played. Maybe in melee, but despite the high ceiling and the surprise boosts that it can give you, I think you’ll be looking for something that can advance your board state or looking for something that triggers in alignment with the type of things you’re already doing.
scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
If you’re already winning dominance with multiple unique characters on table, then you’re probably winning without this power grab event that’s useless when you’re losing.
Von Wibble - 2 out of 5
Realistically it is unlikely you will net more than 3-4 power from this event unless you are already winning the game. People may want to include it in a rush deck to grab the last bit of power required, but I think I’d prefer Superior Claim, especially given how unlikely it is that you will win dominance. Ironically core Asha is a better shout for a deck running this as she can often ensure she does challenges and is still standing for dominance.
Joe From Cincinnati - 2.5 out of 5
2 gold to possibly end the game after winning dominance. The good news is that Greyjoy’s drowned god theme already wants to win dominance anyway, so you aren’t necessarily jumping through hoops to trigger this card but, somewhat ironically, that deck also has a good number of non-unique characters that are at the core of its build... I mean, they still play characters like Victarion and such, so there will be unique characters in there, but still. A little anti-synergistic. That said, general dominance decks (the furniture kind) may still like this card, so you could always go with Greyjoy Banner Stag and be just fine. This card may suffer the same problem as Ritual of R’hllor where it just takes too much work to effectively pull it off, leaving people to stay with more consistent builds that don’t rely on “jank†like this to win. Granted, your opponent would actually have to spend a couple gold to cancel this with Hand’s Judgment...
Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
The ceiling is high, and is what everyone is focusing on. But there’s so many conditions to get close to said ceiling. If you have a board with Euron, Damphair, Balon, Theon, etc., on it and can afford to not use them in the challenges phase… are you not just winning anyway? This is the power monocon faction, just play Superior Claim.
Jhiqui (3.25 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
In a Flea Bottom context this card is probably good, but you can say that about a lot of Targaryen cards at this point and Flea Bottom only works once a turn. A cost benefit analysis needs to be done here to determine if discarding a card for this character, Plaze of Pride, Skahazadhan or whatever is worth it. Given the response is not limited you could chuck a card for each challenge for 3+ power and close a game that way. The character is cheap enough that it could be worth a slot as a standby option if other card discard tech isn’t optimal.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
She’s very, very good. But I don’t think she’s better than Doreah, and I don’t think she’s better than Irri. She’s different, admittedly, and power is never a bad thing, but she’s quite card intensive. That said, I’ll likely slot her in right alongside those other two and never be that sad to see her.
scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Targ is suddenly flush with playable intrigue icons, especially at the 2 cost slot. Jhiqui slots right into most decks (or at least those with Drogo + Dany) right alongside Irri and Doreah. Thankfully she’s loyal so there’s no interaction with non-kneeling Big Cersei, but there are other Lords/Ladies who can participate in multiple challenges like Jaime, Randyll, and Brienne. Plenty of potential for a big swing in power to close games.
Von Wibble - 3 out of 5
Decent icons and strength for the cost, making her an easy enough 1 of in many Targ decks. I like the effect, but there will be times where you have no lord or lady character to actually benefit from it. Targ are also getting to the point where they have so many effects costing cards that they will have to be selective about which ones to include, unless they want to start running events like the Dragon’s Tail just to ensure they have the draw.
Joe From Cincinnati - 2.5 out of 5
Targaryen is going to have a ton of things to do with cards in their hand other than playing them as if they were cards in their hand. When I can stand a character by discarding a card with Plaza of Pride or gain 1 power, I will usually pick the former, especially when the latter has a targeting restriction attached to it that isn’t all that common out of Targaryen, at least compared to other factions.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 4 out of 5
Tough to ask for more from a 2-coster, really. The lack of limit means that if you get a Lord/Lady in every challenge, you can bin off several cards for several power, making this a potent accelerant. Holding back from a 5 is the need for those traits and the requirement of cards to pitch.
The Skahazadhan (2.4 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
As with Jhiqui, this card is competing with other cards to discard your cards! People typically do well when they manage to maintain a decent hand size. The other thing is that Slaver’s Bay Port is so good you probably don’t need this anyway. Not total trash, but pointless in the current environment.
OKTarg - 4 out of 5
This will be tricky to use, surely, but the upside is very, very high. If you think of this as letting Targ run double-Counting Coppers with impunity since they will always be able to pitch for money on those turns, I think you’re looking at it correctly. You don’t HAVE to toss to it, either, and whenever you set it up you’re dancing since you likely are above reserve first turn anyway. Yeah, you’ll want more draw in Targ but there are tools there, I think.
scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
I would only recommend Skahazadhan if you’ll get the Summer bonus more often than not, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to include Summer plots that I otherwise wouldn’t just for an extra gold. Also, cards in hand are extremely valuable for Targ right now, to threaten Consuming Flames, Qhotho, etc. even if you don’t have them.
Von Wibble - 1.5 out of 5
I am sure I will be proven wrong here, but I am not seeing the benefit. Having just mentioned above how Targ have so many discard effects, I think in general I’d rather stand a big guy, gain power, put a beatstick into play, or burn someone, than gain 2 gold. If you look at plot options, you could have Counting Coppers read as a net 4 gold draw 2 card plot, which is decent, and Time of Plenty be a 9 gold plot letting your opponent draw a card, as a 1 shot Late Summer Harvest with better reserve. Aside from that I don’t want to be netting only 1 card per turn though. The score will improve if Targ get more draw, for now I don’t want to run it.
Joe From Cincinnati - 1 out of 5
I’m spending 2 gold on this card, and then the following round I I am discarding a card from my hand to recoup what I spent (and maybe gain 1 additional gold for my trouble). If you did not reveal a summer plot, then you need to reveal another plot and discard a second card just to gain an economic advantage of any kind from this card, at which point it has cost you 3 cards (the location + the 2 cards discarded). I know economy is valuable. And seeding your discard pile with Flea Bottom bait has value. This does allow you to run lower gold plots effectively, but there are already cards that arguably do that better and don’t require you to consistently discard cards from your hand to gain said effect. Also, the same logic applies as above. Targaryen doesn’t have amazing card draw (though it’s not awful), so you have to be at least somewhat apprehensive about throwing them away, even if it is for a nice gold boost.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 4 out of 5
We’d fancy any kid who grew up on the banks of this river to absolutely kill it in spelling bees. This is a very efficient economy location - a higher ceiling than Redwyne Straits, and that’s limited even - but the discard as cost holds it back from a five.
Darkstar (3.5 Average)
emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
He’s not bad but the reason I’m not so keen on him is because in order to make maximum use of his effect you probably need to go first which is hugely contrary to the Martell mechanics. Otherwise he’s a decent body overall but may not work as great as advertised.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
He’s fine. I don’t know that I‘ll play him though, just based on how awkward he makes your initiative decision. If there were more of a reason to play Knights, then maybe, but right now I’m not sure that there is.
scantrell24 - 3.5 out of 5
He’s good-ish, but good-ish might not be enough for Martell attrition builds, especially considering he’ll compete with Bastard of Godsgrace (paying for VB or Vengeance is huge). I love Darkstar for Greyjoy Sun-opposed though (one of my pet decks since Nymeria and Raiding Longship arrived).
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
Darkstar pushes Martell 1 step closer to a critical mass of icon removal, and is another character who can make Tears of Lys or Tyene do their job very effectively. Even without text a 5 gold 4 strength stealth bicon is decent after all. However, he is much more effective if you are first player, which doesn’t really fit with most Martell cards, at least for now. Maybe a go first deck will emerge, with Dawn providing intimidate as well? With more first player support the rating improves for sure.
Joe From Cincinnati - 4.5 out of 5
I am a fan of this guy. He not only rewards you for going first, which works well for Martell (Do I go first and remove your icons, or do I go second and get additional gold and a bunch of other great stuff?..if youi can’t tell, I hate going first.) but he also works well with a theme that, as of yet, has not burst onto the scene as much as I would have liked. Cards that trigger off of a character having 1 challenge icon just got a boost with this guy being released (as well as the best kill spell in the game, of course!). Pair him with Nymeria and you have some pretty consistent icon removal that your opponent will have to constantly account for in their combat math, which is never a bad thing
.Q&T Curmudgeons - 3 out of 5
He’s fine. A bit of a rehash of the version from first edition that saw no play though. And going second he’s just a plain bad deal.
Sand Steed (2.1 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
Do you trade deck space in Martell for icon control or this? I think icon control or other negative attachments will win more frequently as this does nothing unless you have a heavy summer plot deck. At least it’s decent during set up.
OKTarg - 2 out of 5
Passive power is always nice, but I think I’d rather have either of the locations than this guy, being more vulnerable. He locks you in to Summer plots, likewise, and often Martell wants some more bite in their plot effects. But, I can see an opponent playing this and me therefore getting very annoyed, so I won’t give it a 1.
scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
Gaining one power during the upcoming plot phase IF my current plot is a Summer plot doesn’t do enough for me. I guess it’s non-loyal, so maybe you stack this on Robar Royce to gain potentially 2 power every plot phase? Meh.
Von Wibble - 2.5 out of 5
Some people have got decent mileage out of Robar Royce, and potentially having 3 of him on the table with no downside could prove to be very strong, especially given this is not even terminal. Characters who benefit from having power on them, such as the Blackfish, will like this. It also has potential in Rains as you can get that extra power in the challenges phase to speed you to the win. Whether it is as impactful as the icon removers or the Venomous Blade remains to be seen, but the fact it provides Martell with an option to outlast Table and Chair decks cannot be underestimated.
Joe From Cincinnati - 3 out of 5
Summer plots aren’t bad right now so it won’t be difficult to play this in a deck that runs a hand full of them to facilitate this card. In those decks that already want to run 4 to 5 summer plots, this attachment will be worth a good amount of power. But it’s not good enough to alter your build to fit in, so it’s likely going to be more of a “I may as well†card in Summer decks rather than a deck building determinant, in most cases. It may even fall out as the 61st or 62nd card due to this.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 1 out of 5
This could arguably be a 2, because of the potential for a passive power gain engine and for having more potency in Melee where any power you can gain in windows opponents can’t do anything about is good. That said, it’s not consistent, attachments remain a somewhat weak cardtype, and Martell can’t really afford ‘luxury’ cards.
Tom of Sevenstreams (2.4 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
There are a total of 9 song events in the card pool as of this writing. Several of which are loyal. Stand is great but it’s on an expensive monocon whose ability is restricted to non-loyal characters that can be only done once per phase. Feels like a lot when there’s cheaper more efficient stand tech available.
OKTarg - 3 out of 5
I think if you’re playing Songs, then great! Go for this guy too. But he doesn’t seem enough to make me play songs that I don’t already want to be including. Meh.
scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
Underwhelming in several aspects. Stand is great for whoever you gave Intimidate/Insight to in a Brotherhood deck, but there are easier/better/cheaper ways to do it already (Seal, Plaza, HG Courtier, etc.).
Von Wibble - 2.5 out of 5
Given a 3 strength power monocon is not worth 4 gold, Tom’s inclusion in a deck will be largely based on the quantity of song events being run. Lord Renly’s Ride is a very good one to use, and Tyrell have plenty of other options to help it. In melee you can also add the Dornishman’s Wife as a possibility. I’d say if you are running 9 or more songs and not relying too much on loyal characters, go for it.
Joe From Cincinnati - 2 out of 5
Ah, the song cards continue! There isn’t much else to say than that. Standing brotherhood characters and non-loyal faction characters is great, especially if it triggers off of cards that you were going to run anyway. There will eventually be a critical mass of songs that will make this guy relatively potent. But, at the same time, a 4 cost monocon with 3 strength is bad stats. Even worse than Ser Hyle Hunt!
Q&T Curmudgeons - 3 out of 5
The body is too weak for our tastes. It’d be nice, if they wanted to empower these subthemes, if the cards designed to empower them weren’t bad by themselves. That said, stand remains as good as ever.
Lem Lemoncloak (2.5 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
In my opinion only good for Brotherhood. Obviously there he’ll do well and he’s super efficient. Not sure what other deck builds he might be included in.
OKTarg - 2 out of 5
He’s good in Bara Brotherhood. He’s not good in other decks. Fin.
scantrell24 - 1 out of 5
Not even in Brotherhood. Why would I want a blank 3 gold character? Give me Hedge Knight any day of the week if I have to have a blank body to win challenges with and nothing else.
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
Given most decks will run at least 1 loyal character, I’d say he’s pretty much Brotherhood only, but is very efficient in that deck. The score reflects this efficiency.
Joe From Cincinnati - 3 out of 5
A 3 for 4 bicon for the Brotherhood deck. It isn’t inspiring, but it isn’t bad either...I could also see a R’hllor explosion deck becoming available over time, which will be fun. Ritual of R’hllor!
Q&T Curmudgeons - 3 out of 5
Since this is the most boring, middling card of the entire pack (“one-of in Brotherhoodâ€, you’ll be shocked to hear), we’re going to take a moment to derail the conversation into gender. Thrones as an IP is somewhat notable for having an above-average number of female fans, something which doesn’t carry over to the cardgame. Packs like this one, where there are 8 male characters and only 2 female ones (as many horses featured on the art as females) are likely contributing. Do we really need more dudes with beards (and we bet GBOW agrees!). Before you claim there aren’t enough female characters to draw from, have a glance at the appendices and tell us true, do you remember what Maester Wendamyr did in the books?
Forgotten by History (2.0 Average)
emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
Close to useless for rush decks when a 5-7 gold character is your problem but they only have 3 power on the faction card. Different story for decks that play long. The faction card kneel plus the cost makes this hard to swallow. If it couldn’t be saved (duplicates can save against this) then I might be more excited. There’s a lot more removal in the game that is more reliable I think.
OKTarg - 2 out of 5
These types of cards are always terrifying! Remember when we literally mutinied over Mutiny at Craster’s Keep and it turned out...okay? Or in the Core Set days when Take the Black seemed like the be-all, end-all of control cards? Well, it turns out that Dominance actions aren’t great, and expensive Dominance actions certainly aren’t. Now, we get a mid-to-late game Dominance action? Yeah, I’ll pass I think. (But when it triggers it will feel very powerful!)
scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
This card will be forgotten by history (hahaha). It’s a 3 gold Dominance action event that’s situationally brilliant but nowhere near the consistency of Nightmares, Hand’s Judgment, etc. I guess if you expect a ton of renown bodies and traditional saves then give it a try, but be prepared for mediocre results in other matchups.
Von Wibble - 2 out of 5
The effect is undoubtedly very powerful, but is well balanced by the need to save 3 gold for dominance, and not have it stolen by Pirates or Looted. Decks that naturally save gold into challenges such as Targ, or that can gain money during challenges, such as Lannister, may find this isn’t so difficult, but otherwise it makes the event hard to justify. Anyone who forgets the existence of this event could regret it, but generally I will pass on it.
Joe From Cincinnati - 2 out of 5
My biggest issue with this card is the fact that it’s a dominance action. Random intrigue claim has ruined many a dominance action card, leaving the gold you saved to simply vanish at the end of the round. The restriction based on how much power is on your opponent’s faction card isn’t great either. Against Renown rush decks, the decks you may think this card would be most valuable against (shuffling 4 or 5 power back into their deck is a legitimately powerful stall technique) may not have the requisite power on their faction card needed to target said character even when they’re close to winning...If that’s not the case, then you’re spending 3 gold and a card to remove a 7 coster maybe? I don’t know if this card is worth the effort.
Q&T Curmudgeons - 2 out of 5
Control like the redundancy of these types of events. This specific one is very expensive though - compare it to Mutiny, or the Giants/Varys combo. It’s also a touch inconsistent in when you can actually apply it. Upside stronk though, and Istaril likes the art, so there’s that.
The Withering Cold (4.4 Average)
emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
Very solid plot card and Baratheon kneel hands on a little bit longer. Though it doesn’t have to go into a kneel deck. I can see Night’s Watch wall/defense decks going for this or other deck builds who are simply interested in simply stalling their opponents.
OKTarg - 4 out of 5
I think we badly need more plots like this that have a powerful effect that can really cripple those not ready for it. Baratheon stands to mind quickly as one that might want this effect, and we all know that they need *something*! Anything that gets us away from boring high-gold-and-cards plots is okay in my eyes, so I look forward to seeing how this will be used over the next few months!
scantrell24 - 5 out of 5
There’s a reason Withering Cold is “Plot deck limit: 1â€. Pair this with even a little kneel or stand and you’ve got something cooking. Lots of factions can take advantage: Bara, Martell and Night’s Watch may want to slow the game. Targ and Stark can stand. Several factions have non-kneeling attackers or defenders.
Von Wibble - 4 out of 5
The stat line is solid, and it can really help lock down a board if you have a decent amount of stand and your opponent doesn’t. Baratheon clearly want this as a way to get Core Stannis’s effect before he turns up, and Stark and Targ both have decent stand options to be able to mitigate the downside. Lannister jumper decks stand out as clear favourites to really get mileage out of this though. As with Lem above the rating is more a reflection of how good this plot is in decks that really can abuse it over decks that aren’t that bothered.
Joe From Cincinnati - 4.5 out of 5
Good stats, potent effect and a trait that can see play in a Winter deck. I have no complaints. I could see this card being played when you’re gearing up for your next turn. Play it, don’t declare many challenges or defend many challenges (if you can afford to do so, obviously) and then your opponent must either do the same or risk getting blown out the following round. This also works really well with non-kneeling attackers, such as the aforementioned Haunted Forest Scout or the Green Apple Knight. Also works well with non-kneeling defenders...though they are, for some reason, much less common :\
I’d laugh if your opponent revealed this on the same round that you reveal your The Fire That Burns though
.Q&T Curmudgeons - 5 out of 5
Very strong. Kneel badly needed an effect like this to stay (once more become?) relevant, and the numbers are strong enough that one can actually play it, too. That’s not even getting into other application like Stark using Robb for a one-sided stand, or non-kneeling effects running wild.
Total Pack Average: 2.94 (not the best ever, but lots of playable cards around 3 points)
Top Cards:
Asha Greyjoy 4.9
The Withering Cold 4.4
Haunted Forest Scout 4.0
Bottom Cards:
Kingsmoot 1.9
The Dreadfort 1.9
Ser Hyle Hunt 2.0
Forgotten by History 2.0
If you're hungry more content, check out the library of podcasts, articles, game video and more in the Community FAQ. Let us know in the comments how you feel about the cards in this box, and we’ll see you again soon to discuss the Favor of the Old Gods chapter pack.
17 Comments
Re: Gender - It's certainly a fair issue to raise, but I think you're being too forgiving to the source material. Sure, they have those mammoth appendices to draw from, but the players first want to see the big, exciting names that they recognize at a glance - and can you name me a Greyjoy-alligned female off the top of your head besides Asha and Alannys (and even that one is a stretch)? As to your point about Wendamyr, I could just as easily ask you to remind me what Helya did in the books
The developers have a real uphill climb for equal representation given the material. The numbers are bound to be imbalanced, because of a number of unavoidable factors (1/3 of all icons are MIL, which naturally slant male; Westeros is chock-full of various clubs that don't invite women, including an entire one of the game's eight factions; and right now, the two hot subtypes are Brotherhood and Maester, which are all-male.) GoT does have a decent number of high-profile, badass women, and the game does a great job of giving them their time in the sun (check out the highest rated card above!)
great review guys
Gender issues in a card game...? Seriously ???
Feminism and political retardation are f*cking up everything these days. The tv show is already f*cked up, I guess the time has come to ruin the game, too.
But it's 2018 and some miserable people feel offended by fictional events in a game based on a work of fiction, by the quantity or the lack of female characters, by the role they play, by their costumes, or by the artworks illustrating cards in a game.
When did the art stop to be about 'freedom' and expressing one's self, and became a medium to cater to some snowflake's butt-hurt ego...?
Honestly going to ignore commenting on the more obvious bait-and-switches where people overrate "good" cards and underrate everything else even if it provides a new effect to add to a toolbox (eg. Asha is no 5 and Ramsay is no 3), but I just wanted to mention 2 particular cases of specific interactions that seem to have completely flown over the reviewers' heads:
Sand Steed = Lets see if anyone remembers Change of Plans exists - The Game
Forgotten by History = Lets see if anyone remembers Water Gardens exists - The Game
Good to see basically nobody plays Martell :|
If it's any consolation, we mentioned Change of Plans in our internal reviews (prior to compiling them and condensing them for Q&TR) - but honestly, that means you're changing, by virtue of having a stand steed and having a plot deck that works for it, change of plans into also giving you a power. That might be enough to make change of plans playable, but two mediocre cards that if seen together make for two acceptable ones is still a fair stretch. I think we even mentioned Sand Steed in our review of Change of plans
As for Forgotten by History, there are plenty of ways to make it cheaper (Littlefinger's Medling, Water Gardens), but those generally also apply to the other potent dom effects people listed. This card still faces the issues of not working if your opponent is amassing renown (a situation more dire for control decks anyway).
To echo GreatGopher & Shuwar's sentiments, has identity politics finally crossed The Narrow Sea to Westoros? I hope not.
For clarity, I really enjoy the Q&T Curmudgeons contribution in these reviews, insightful and often funny, long may they continue. But I don't agree with you's on your point on gender representation of fictitious characters in a spin off card game. I got into this game from being a fan of GoT, I'd never played card games before this one so for me a large part of the appeal of this game is seeing GRRM's characters represented in thematicly appropriate mechanics, like Tinder Marg's husband swapping or Melisandre seeing the opponents hand by staring into the flames. Maybe the whole Nights Watch faction is purposely designed to be a boring NPE to reflect how miserable life is at the Wall?
I think the designers have done a great job translating many of the characters (male / female / eunuch / dragon) into the game via their mechanics. The main problem I have with the female characters is which version to choose. And as GreatGopher pointed out Asha is the highest rated card this pack, so they are certainly not lacking in quality.
Anyhoo, I’m not having a go at the Q&T Curmudgeons directly so these next questions are purely rhetorical and address points not stated so I want to be clear I’m not ascribing views to Q&T Curmudgeons as they haven't expressed them.
1) if the impression that most players have is that there is a gender representation problem then what solution what would these players propose? should the designers only implement female characters until they have equal representation? Why should representation only be equal, why not 60% female, or 70%…80%. etc. Should they invent unique female characters not in the books to aid in this?
2) why stop at gender? Where are the black characters? There are only two I can think of in the books, one is an exiled prince from the Summer Isles living in Kings Landing’s court, the other is a salt wife / concubine of Victarion on his boat. So all the above questions equally apply to race, so then does it follow that GoT & this game are inherently racist and therefore any player / fan who supports the books / game is a racist? Like wise there are no Trans people in the books or this game so its also Transphobic ? how deep down the identity politics rabbit hole do the players that see a representation problem want to go?
3) hypothetically If there is any gender problem with this game then it’s in the player base, I'd say 95+% of players I've seen are male, barring the odd girlfriend who’s been roped in to the game, this is purely my subjective experience and if you play in an environment with more female players or are one yourself, then more power to you. But if women don't generally like card games then what if any thing can or even should be done about that if its just not within their interests? I'd rather have as many people playing the game that love the game, regardless of whatever bits dangle from their bodies.
TLDR; divisive identity politics are in the zeitgeist but I'd rather not see them in this community and I would just point out what GRRM has said on gender himself;
https://imgur.com/gallery/nu2Mipb
Comments and constructive criticism welcome
Then you're as much an idiot as the ******* who wrote it.
Oh, did someone hurt your feelings...?
I guess it must be traumatic to realize there are people who don't agree with you, but don't you worry - it may be The Only Game That Matters, but it's still just a game
And I can guarantee you that no real woman has suffered because of them cards xD If you want to protect someone from harm - teach them to be stronger, not to play the victim and be triggered by petty things.
Well. I really don't see women to be victims, maybe that's the problem. In my experience women like that, but what do I know...
No feelings were hurt, rest assured.
My point is that people who say things like
are just dinosaurs. When will people like you learn that you always, always lose? When will you learn that you're always wrong about these things? You were wrong on the issue of letting women own property. You were wrong on the issue of race equality. You were wrong about not letting gay people get married. You were wrong about disparaging feminism.
Oh, but THIS time you're right, eh? THIS time those damn progressives have gone too far! They should just leave it alone so it can stay like it's always been, right?
No, people like you are just wrong again, once again. And you will lose again. And we will win. The sooner you accept this, the better.
WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR THRONES, AND WE IS GONNA RUIN THEM!!!
Dude, you've got ISSUES...
Fighting over supposed sexism in a card game (lol) will bring you no glory. The same with calling people names simply because you can't accept them having a different opinion. You probably don't even realize how hypocritical you are - preaching about tolerance, while being full of prejudice (apparently towards white 'cis' men xD).
For your information - I don't give a damn about your sexism and racism stuff. Your attempts at shaming me are ridiculous and immature.
It's pathetic how you try to win an argument WITHOUT actually using arguments, only 'you're an idiot' and 'we're coming for your thrones'. You sound like someone with serious identity problems.
Anyway, try solving problems for once, rather than looking for them
Are you accusing Shuwar of voting against the Married Women's Property Act 1882? do you have any evidence to back up this bizarre claim?
Chriswhite if you must rub your virtue in all our faces then at least wash it first