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Quill & Tankard Regulars - Issue 14

Small Council Quill & Tankard Regulars Ire Ratatoskr WWDrakey

Quill & Tankard Regulars – Issue 14

Leaving the Quill & Tankard Inn late at night after having several portions of its renowned strong cider, you find yourself in a dark place. A murky side alley with its own rules, where novices fear to walk and the sphinx acts friendly. You have entered... The Bad Side of the Oldtown.

The Bad Side of Oldtown: Moribund events

Note: This article is outdated as of FAQ 4.2, which clarified that moribund events are not actually in play. So go on everybody, there's nothing to see here.

There is a side to Oldtown, where only the suicidal and morbid dare to tread, where the streets form a labyrinth, and even fervent Archmaesters hold tightly to their Valyrian Steel Links. This is where the rules can twist into surprising shapes, or terrible specters. This is the Bad Side of Oldtown.

Hello and welcome to a new Q&TR portion called The Bad Side of the Oldtown. Here we look at small peculiar rules interactions. This time we are giving a special glance at moribund events.

What we know about the moribund state is that a card enters it before it goes into the appropriate out-of-play area. A Moribund card is considered to still be in play until the end of the action window where it entered the moribund state. Cards can still interact with cards that are moribund before the card goes to its designated area. We also know that a moribund card cannot be removed from the game for a second time. There is also a special situation that often happens, but rarely matters. It is when an event card goes into the moribund state. What normally happens when an event is played is that it immediately goes into it moribund:discard and then its effect resolves (NOTE: moribund:discard changes to moribund:dead for Deathbound events like Forever Burning (Core) after they are succesfully resolved) and it stays on the table until the end of the action window, only then moving into the discard/dead pile. For the FAQ entry on moribund events, see page 17.

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Events in the moribund state act pretty similarly to characters in all respects. While they are in moribund:discard/dead state they are technically in play, and you can still interact with them. The time window is short and you need very specific cards to interact with events in the first place. Lets say for example that you have Samwell Tarly (TRS) and Oldtown Scholar (FtC) on the board. The scholar has after long studies earned a Copper Link (GotC). Now, you play Citadel Custom (CbtC) and pay the cost by kneeling the Scholar. The event goes into moribund:discard and then it's effect resolves. Using the response on the Copper Link (GotC) when your Maester kneels allows you to give the event a Raven trait. Now Samwell ”Slayer” Tarly can use his own Response: on Citadel Custom (CbtC) to draw 2 cards, since it is a played card with the Raven trait. The fact that this all happens in the same action window, while the event is in moribund:discard, makes this interaction work.

And now ends this first small issue of Bad side of the Oldtown. Can you come up with more moribund event interactions currently in the game? Take us down to the bad side of Oldtown with your ideas.

Questioned by the Conclave

Questioned by the Conclave is a series of quizzes for our readers, loosely based around the topics of the Issue in question. Correct answers will be posted in the comments, after enough readers have had their chance of testing their knowledge. The difficulty of the questions will vary from those directed at Apprentices, to those best suited for Archmaesters.
  • You play Westeros Bleeds (Core). In what order do the characters and event go into the discard pile?
  • What exactly happens when Benjen Stark (Core) is killed and his passive ability activates?
  • When a Summer Reserves (SA) that has been in play as a character is killed will it go into moribund:dead or moribund:discard?
Antti Korventausta (WWDrakey) is a self-proclaimed Finnish AGoT philosopher and nitpicker, who also used to practice Quantum Mechanics, but found that it paled to AGoT in both interest and complexity. As a Stahleck regular and judge, he sometimes has oddly vivid dreams of understanding portions of the game. In AGoT, he'll play anything as long as it's suitably twisted... often ending up with something that has horns on it.

Helmut Hohberger (Ratatoskr) started playing AGoT in September 2010 and has never looked back (although his wife has, longingly). As a German, he loves rules - and I mean *loves* 'em. Try triggering a Response at the end of a phase on his watch, and he'll probably invade your country. He has actually read the FAQ, and was made a judge at Stahleck 2011 and at various other events. He sometimes answers rules questions on boardgamegeek and the FFG rules board. Some of his answers haven't even been contradicted, corrected or expanded upon by ktom - there is no higher accolade for a rules board morlock.

Every Maester needs a Raven on his shoulder. As a Finn, Iiro Jalonen (Ire) got pulled under the waves by Krakens years ago, and has never looked back. A self-inflicted Shagga and active member of the global AGoT community, he has always strived to know the rules of the game, in order to make them do ridiculous things.
  • Zaidkw likes this


18 Comments

On a related note: Does summer reserves have a printed gold cost (for example: first snow of winter plot)?
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JallekTully
Oct 19 2012 09:27 PM
It doesn't have a printed gold cost, however it does cost a single gold to be paid when it is played. That being said I would have to say it's printed gold cost would be considered "0".
From the FAQ:

(4.19) Printed
Any reference made to "printed" be it cost, STR, icons, etc. only refers to the referenced item physically printed on the card itself. A card like Summer Reserves (Scattered Armies F119) does not have a printed cost or STR for instance. Any card effect that looked for the printed cost of a card without a printed cost would fail to find any cost and would return a null value, no item that could be referenced.

1. order is decided by the owners of the cards.

2. all dead are shuffled into there respective decks, then benjen stark is placed in his owners deadpile

3. summer reserve dies, reverts to an event go's to the discard pile,
1. Order decided by owner of cards.

2. All cards currently in each player's dead pile are shuffled back into that player's deck. Then Benjen Stark and any character killed by the same effect are placed in the card owner's dead pile.

3. Summer Reserves goes to the dead pile.
I agree with talism on all points. All cards that are moribund:dead in 2 go in with Benjen (after the shuffling).

However, Deathbound events start out moribund:discard because Deathbound is a replacement effect that only applies to events when they are successfully played (a cancelled Forever Burning goes to the discard pile).

And there is an even worse side to Oldtown: Epic Battle events do not become moribund at all and are neither in the discard/dead pile nor in play until their epic phase is over.
    • WWDrakey likes this
@Khudzlin: Good thing you brought up Deathbound, it made me go back and double check that we were clear enough about the point when Deathbound takes effect (and that it only takes effect if the event is not cancelled)... and looks like we were too vague regarding that. So, I went and fixed that into the article, just so that nobody gets the wrong idea.

And yeah, the state that Epic Battle events go to after being played is admittedly *very* peculiar, definite Bad Side material.

So, looks like our Quiz was pretty easy this time, the answers were:

1. The order is defined by the player controlling the cards, and since the event leaves play at the same time as the characters, it can end up on top of your discard pile (for example for Regroup (KotStorm) or The Prince's Plans (TIoR)).

2. When Benjen Stark (Core) dies, only the characters currently in your dead pile are shuffled back into your deck, not the characters currently in moribund. So, if Benjen is killed by Valar Morghulis (Core), none of the other characters killed by it are shuffled back into the deck either.

3. As to the answer on this on, I'll quote Ktom from a forum post on Summer Reserves, so that the allowed Response:s are also defined:

Those are two separate questions. It leaves the game as a character - so you would use Responses to a character being killed or discarded - but it goes to the discard pile if it is killed as defined in the FAQ. ("If for any reason, a non-character card that is functioning as a character is killed, said card is placed in the discard pile instead.")
In a scenario similar to your Samwell/Raven one, you could give the event the Reinforcements trait to be able to trigger Men With No King (SA) or any of the other similar armies.
    • Archrono likes this
I wonder, are there any other cool interactions with the Copper Link (GotC)?
I always looked at it to give the Maester or Lord traits (or King to discount one of the huge armies.) But I like the idea of using it on an event for entering or leaving play effects.

I guess Royal Entourage (TTotH) would work.

Joffrey Baratheon (PotS) too..
All the reinforcement stuff as well.
Royal Entourage wouldn't work. An event is not a character, regardless of what traits it has.
Ahh I missed the character bit. My bad.
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JallekTully
Oct 20 2012 08:19 PM
Kinda off topic but would you be able to trigger Joffrey Baratheon's effect (PotS) if the event Shadow Politics comes out of shadows?
events comming out of shaodws are treated the same as any other event
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JallekTully
Oct 20 2012 10:48 PM
I wasn't sure, just wanted to confirm, was working on a decklist using that Joffrey and small council events combined with asshai. I just wanted to make sure my entire deck was legal.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work actually. Shadows cards are never considered to be "played", right? Hasn't there been a discussion of Shadows events somewhere? Should probably look it up.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work actually. Shadows cards are never considered to be "played", right? Hasn't there been a discussion of Shadows events somewhere? Should probably look it up.

From the shadow rules leaflet:
After an event card comes out of Shadows, it is treated in the same manner as a non-Shadows event card played from a player’s hand.
Regarding F.A.Q. (3.27 p.10). Can an opponent take control, from your discard pile, a unique character that you already have in play?
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emptyrepublic
Oct 22 2012 04:34 PM
I do believe the answer is yes, unless they own the same unique titled card (regardless of version) and it's in their dead pile.