Quill & Tankard Regulars - Issue 3

Quill & Tankard Regulars - Issue 3

NOTE: This article is outdated as of FAQ 3.3, where the text on Threat from the East was errata'd. See here for details.

Today we're having our second issue of Beware the Sphinx and taking a look back at a card that came out over a year ago in the Queen of Dragons deluxe expansion. People have spent a good long time playing with it, and probably feel that they should by now both know and understand it. Care for a wager? Let's see if the dim tavern light here at The Quill & Tankard can't illuminate some new aspects...

Beware the Sphinx - Threat From The East

Beware the Sphinx is a series of articles concentrating on important cards with several peculiar, complex or unintuitive interactions. An emphasis is kept on both new and competitively relevant cards. Remember, the Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler.

Our culprit today is one card that many Baratheon players have lately dug out from storage, to the chagrin of their opponents. This card has been evoking questions and frowns from players since the day it was published, and only lately has the exact knowledge on how to play this card started to seep into general knowledge – mainly due to the powerful combination with the now unrestricted The Laughing Storm (GotC). So, on the back of a rising storm, here comes the Threat From The East.

[lightbox='got/threat-from-the-east-qod.jpg']got/med_threat-from-the-east-qod.jpg[/lightbox]

Threat from the East's text states:
When revealed, you choose one:

• Each player draws 3 cards and then discards 3 random cards from hand.
• Each player discards 3 random cards from hand and then draws 3 cards.

In principle, this sounds quite simple. However, the tricky part arises from the then word used in the card text, which has a very specific meaning in AGoT rules.

The FAQ (§4.6) states:
If a card has multiple effects, all effects on the card are resolved, if possible, independently of whether any other effects of the card are successful, with the following important exception: If a card uses the word "then," then the preceding effect must have been resolved successfully for the subsequent dependent effect to be resolved.

Essentially, this means that the pre-then part of the effect needs to resolve sucessfully for the post-then part to initiate. Note that even if you cannot resolve the first part fully, you have to resolve it as far as you can.

So, what does this mean in an actual game situation?

Option #1 (draw first and then discard):

If all players are able to draw 3 cards, then each player has to discard if possible. The subsequent discard can be stopped by effects like The Laughing Storm (GotC) or modified by effects like Knight of Harrenhal (TBC) and Darkstar (PotS). With The Laughing Storm (GotC), this means that you get to draw 3 cards, but don't have to discard a single one. Meanwhile, your opponent gets no card advantage (draw 3 and discard 3), but has their draw cap filled, so that they cannot draw any more cards through card effects this round.

If any player is unable to draw all three cards, then no player has to discard. This can happen for example by:

• Any player having used a card effect to draw at least one card before the When Revealed effects initiate (for example using King's Landing (SaS) or Vale Scavenger (MotM) in the pre-plot action window). Then that player is not able to draw the full 3 cards from Threat from the East due to the draw cap (which limits players to gaining a maximum of 3 cards per round through 'draw' card effects).
• If Stannis Baratheon (KotStorm) is in play.
• If the draw cap has been modified by Rotten Bastard (HtS).

Option #2 (discard first and then draw):

If all players succesfully discard three cards at random from their hand, then each player gets to draw three cards. The draw here can be again modified by cards like Stannis Baratheon (KotStorm) and is affected by the draw cap etc. Essentially, each player draws as many cards as possible (up to 3). If a player has already drawn one or more cards beforehand, they get to draw until they are up to their draw cap.

If any player is unable to discard three cards at random from their hand, then no player gets to draw. However, all players must still discard as many cards as they are able (up to 3). This can happen in at least two different ways:

• If any player has less than 3 cards in hand when the effect initiates, that player is unable to discard 3 cards. This means that if you've discarded your whole hand to stop a Narrow Escape (KotStorm) last turn or gotten hit by heavy hand destruction from a The Power Behind the Throne (LotR) deck, you can use Threat from the East to balance the odds.
• Or, with The Laughing Storm (GotC) - you cannot discard, they have to and no-one gets to draw. Starting the game with a 3 card advantage can never be a bad thing.

Other things to note:

• Darkstar (PotS) getting discarded with Threat From The East in Option #2 does not stop the then part from happening - he was successfully discarded at random, but just didn't go to the discard pile.
• Due to When Revealed effects being handled before other passives, the effect of Threat from the East happens before cards like Bay of Ice (KotS) and Golden Tooth Mines (Core).
• In a case of conflicting When Revealed effects, such as Counting Favors (Core), On Dagger Lake (VD) or A Time for Ravens (ACoS), the first player decides the order in which the effects initiate.
• Wildling Wisewoman (TWH) can cancel the whole effect of Threat from The East - for a discussion on this, see here.
• Even though Knight of Harrenhal (TBC) allows you to choose the cards discarded for Threat from the East, it does not stop the then portion of the effect in Option #2 from happening.

Did this Sphinx leave you with yet more questions? Feel free to ask them in the comments below, and we'll do our best to answer them.

Dear Archmaester

Dear Archmaester collects interesting, unusual and unexpected rulings from the FFG Rules forum.

Q: Dear Archmaester,
I have a kneeling Ser Balon Swann (TWH). My vile opponent has managed to remove his INT icon with The Vaith (TGM). Now the scoundrel has declared an INT challenge against me. Can I use the valiant Ser Balon to defend?

A: You can. To declare a character as a defender in a challenge, the character must fulfil two conditions: 1) he must have the appropriate challenge icon and 2) he must go from a standing to a kneeling position. Ser Balon's ability directly contradicts, and thus supersedes, both these conditions. See here for a short answer, or here for a more detailed explanation.

Q: Cool! But wait - does that also mean that I can defend any challenge with any kneeling character, irrespective of which icons they have, when The Fox's Teeth (TWot5K) is attacking?

A: *Sigh*. No, it doesn't. Think about what I said a second ago. The ability of The Fox's Teeth (TWot5K) does directly contradict one of the conditions I mentioned (the going from standing to kneeling one), but not the other one. Hence, the characters you want to declare as defenders still need the appropriate icon. For further discussion, see here.

Antti Korventausta (WWDrakey) is a self-proclaimed Finnish AGoT philosopher and nitpicker, who also used to practice Quantum Mechanics, but found that it paled to AGoT in both interest and complexity. As a Stahleck regular and judge, he sometimes has oddly vivid dreams of understanding portions of the game. In AGoT, he'll play anything as long as it's suitably twisted... often ending up with something that has horns on it.

Helmut Hohberger (Ratatoskr) started playing AGoT in September 2010 and has never looked back (although his wife has, longingly). As a German, he loves rules - and I mean *loves* 'em. Try triggering a Response at the end of a phase on his watch, and he'll probably invade your country. He has actually read the FAQ, and was made a judge at Stahleck 2011 and at various other events. He sometimes answers rules questions on boardgamegeek and the FFG rules board. Some of his answers haven't even been contradicted, corrected or expanded upon by ktom - there is no higher accolade for a rules board morlock.

Every Maester needs a Raven on his shoulder. As a Finn, Iiro Jalonen (Ire) got pulled under the waves by Krakens years ago, and has never looked back. A self-inflicted Shagga and active member of the global AGoT community, he has always strived to know the rules of the game, in order to make them do ridiculous things.