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Scheming on the Sands - Icon Manipulation

Small Council Scheming on the Sands emptyrepublic Martell

Welcome to another edition of Scheming on the Sands! This time we are discussing icon manipulation; Martell’s principle control mechanism.

What Are Icons?
Posted Image
If you have been playing the GoT:LCG for more than five minutes I hope you can answer this question. In reality though there’s a bit more going on than meets the eye. Let’s get the obvious out of the way; icons are the red, green, and blue circles that appear on the left edge of the character text box. The red allows for participation in military challenges, green in intrigue challenges, and blue in power challenges.

Icon “Stacks”
What’s not evident to new and even some experienced players is that icons can “stack”. Attachments like Rusted Sword (PotS) and The Art of Diplomacy (PotS) grant characters a particular icon. If the character doesn't have a particular icon it can get it via attachments, events, etc. This allows the character to participate in the relevant challenge type and be affected (or not) by effects that target characters with/without that particular icon.

Now if the character already has an icon and is granted additional ones by some effect they in reality will have two (or three, etc) of that icon. The extra icon sits, if you will, on top of the first one in a “stacking” effect but in reality there is still only one icon for the purposes of other game mechanics (having 2 stacking power icons doesn't mean you get double bonuses or extra challenges). Generally speaking when a character gets an extra icon that they already have it has no meaningful impact on the game… unless icon manipulation comes into play.

Adding/Removing Icons & Lasting Effects
A quote from the FAQ will enlighten things quite nicely here…

Even if not triggered at the same time, multiple Lasting Effects may affect the same card at the same time. For example: a character without the Power icon is affected by two lasting effects. One (such as Slander) removes a Power icon from the character, and one (such as Lordship) adds the Power icon to that character. In this example the two lasting effects cancel each other, and the character is left unchanged. The order in which the lasting effects take place is irrelevant: the net sum result of all lasting effects is applied to the character (the net sum of -1 Power icon and +1 Power icon is 0, thus the character remains unchanged). A character can never have more than one icon of a specified kind.
AGoT: LCG FAQ 10/19/2012 – Page 15

So, what this means then is that if a character has an extra icon of an icon that they already have and an effect removes one of the icons then the character still has the icon. To make this clear let’s do another example….

Posted Image + Posted Image + Posted Image - Posted Image = Posted Image

In this example we have Brienne with the Rusted Sword and The Art of Diplomacy attachments. With the attachments she has a sum of 2 military icons and 1 power icon. Now a Martell player chooses to play The Prince’s Wrath on Brienne. The text of The Prince’s Wrath removes “a military, intrigue, and power icon”. The ‘a’ is important here as it specifies a quantity, in this case: one. So one military, one intrigue, and one power icon is removed from Brienne. This removes the icon benefits from the two attachments but since she already had a military icon to begin with she still retains it despite the event. Once the phase ends Brienne will have her extra icons restored.

Regarding “lasting effects” these are effects that have some specified duration. Attachments are pretty clear in that as long the attachment is attached to something the effect is on. Many events and character abilities will specify either “current challenge” or “till end of the phase” and these are lasting as there is a defined period when the effect… is in effect. Non-lasting or “instantaneous” effects are best explained by “kill effects”. It happens, you save (or don’t) and then the effect is over. Finally there are terminal effects but I’ll let the Targaryen crew cover that in a different article.

Why Remove Icons?

So now that we have a good understanding of how icon manipulation works why are we bothering with it?

Hopefully one thing is self-evident: challenge control. If a character doesn't have a particular icon it can’t participate in those types of challenges (generally speaking). If you are especially efficient and remove all the icons of a particular type from all characters of your opponent the player won't be able to initiate or defend in that challenge type. This means you have the ability to blunt the offensive potential of your opponents (e.g. easier to defend challenges) or make openings for yourself to win unopposed challenges.

In my view this type of control is perhaps the strongest in the LCG. Aside from cancels to prevent effects going off there is little to nothing that can be done after the fact. With Lannister kneel control there are many effects that can stand characters: events, other characters, and let’s not forget Martell’s own vengeful keyword. There is no good answer on dealing with icon removal. Additionally since the vast majority of removal effects last the whole phase it means that in melee your other opponents benefit from an easier target (hopefully keeping them away from you).

Aside from the control aspect there is some support for other effects for icon removal. Poisoned Spear (APS) allows for Martell to do direct kills albeit with the no icon prerequisite. It’s particularly potent since you don't have to target a character controlled by the losing opponent.

How about A Game of Cyvasse (ACoS)? But before you begin remove all the intrigue icons off of your foes to guarantee that you get to bounce a character.

Hear Me Roar (Core) in play? Let’s get rid of those intrigue icons to make sure that -1 STR penalty gets applied.

Lineage and Legacy (KotStorm). It'd sure be hard to make that military challenge if they have no characters with power icons to start.

The Windblown (AHM). I’m not particularly in love with this card but if you are going heavy on icon manipulation it may be worth a look.

That’s a short list but the options continue from there. It doesn't take a lot of icon removal to make a big impact and if you are smart with it you can exert a lot of control on your opponents.

Icon Manipulation Choices

Locations
  • The Vaith (TGM)
  • The Scourge (ODG)
  • The Brimstone (TBC)
  • Qhoyne (THoBaW)
Characters
  • Greenblood Merchant (ARotD)
  • Orphan of the Greenblood (PotS)
  • Maiden of Poisons (ODG)
Events
  • Scorpions Underfoot (TWH)
  • The Prince's Wrath (PotS)
  • Compelled by the Sun (CtB)
  • To Be a Viper (SB)
  • Serve. Obey. Protect. (AKitN)
  • The Viper's Rage (TftRK)
Attachments
  • The Broken Spear (SaS)
  • Locked Away (PotS)
There are few more that aren't in house and probably a few more that were hard to find or overlooked but we'll stick with this list for now. If you study this list you'll also notice that with several of them it’s not just removing icons but also adding them.

Icon Manipulation Combos
Doran Martell (TGM) + The Brimstone (TBC)
This is a particularly potent combo in many ways. As you lose challenges you can add/remove icons via The Brimstone for each card discarded by your opponents; a fantastic way to muck with things in melee games. Not a super strong combo in Joust, but it can still work.

The Scourge (ODG) + The Brimstone (TBC)
This combo is strong in Joust and Melee. Use the Scourge to force someone to make the hard decision of discarding cards only to give you yet another opportunity to manipulate icons with the Brimstone.

Other Thoughts
The Brimstone (TBC)
A point to keep in mind with the Brimstone is that its response is available anytime an opponent discards a card. This is excellent in Melee games when people are hitting each other with intrigue challenges as it grants you the chance to muck around with board positions without having to commit any resources.

The Vaith (TGM)
The Vaith is not a bad option but you can only activate the response once per challenge as the defender since the trigger activates off the action of someone declaring a challenge against you. So you can only remove one icon at a time and only when someone is attacking you. Additionally you need to have the influence to pay for the effect.

Qhoyne (THoBaW)
I haven't had the chance to use this card quite yet. The big thing about it is that it’s reliable and repeatable icon removal with no cost beyond kneeling the card. For that reason alone this card has value. However, in this case it’s only the power icon which, for my tastes, is a bit too narrow. Regardless, I can see there being space for this in some Martell icon manipulation decks.

Locked Away (PotS)
It’s repeatable icon removal but with the somewhat steep cost of 1 influence per icon. It doesn't see much use since the effect is not transferable turn to turn like the location effects, however depending on the deck build and amount of influence available it can be useful.

Orphan of the Greenblood (PotS) & The Prince's Wrath (PotS)
These are your go to cards for reliable icon removal. Orphan’s does double duty by being good military claim soak in a pinch and Prince’s Wrath cannot be canceled by Paper Shield (QoD) thanks to its reasonable 1 influence cost. These are must haves if icon control is one of the major themes of your deck.

Greenblood Merchant (ARotD)
This guy is brand new and I haven't had the chance to play him yet. Nonetheless, he is a big deal since he can remove or add an icon from any character. An opponent has the chance to cancel it by kneeling an influence, but I don’t see that being an issue very often.

The Viper's Rage (TftRK)
It requires losing a challenge by 4 to go off, which isn't hard and losing one challenge is a small price to pay for clearing out your opponent of the ability to do anything else. Fantastic for Joust and still strong for melee.

Icon Removal & Naval Enhancement



As you may or may not know the next chapter cycle “A Song of the Sea” will feature some characters that have modified icons. These icons have a small ship on one corner that indicates they are naval support. Characters with these modified icons can enter challenges during different framework/player action windows while a challenge is in progress. I raised the point in a thread on the forums regarding what the implication is for icon removal. At the time of publication of this article there is no word on how icon removal will affect naval enhancements, so stay tuned to what Fantasy Flight Games has to say.

Next Time

On the next edition of Scheming on the Sands we'll review a play I've managed to execute only once and I dub “The Doran Martell Maneuver”. It’s a play that I think typifies all of Martell’s strengths and also fits the House thematically.
  • Toqtamish, Archrono, clique84 and 4 others like this


22 Comments

very nice read, espicially since next deck wanna make want it to be very heavy icon control not always the greatest but fun
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LorasTyrell
Nov 16 2012 07:42 AM
I am currently playing an Icon control deck and enjoying it so much! I run Greenblood Merchant (ARotD) in triplicate and of course works great with the deck (and lowers cost curve). It's amazing, for example, to remove icons from a Stark Murder deck, to see them lose their favorite challenge against you, even if they are much stronger than you at that moment.
Its not amazing...its annoying. Damned annoying. LOL!

Bloody Martell. :P
    • zordren and LorasTyrell like this
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slothgodfather
Nov 16 2012 05:06 PM
Great artcle. I agree icon remove is definately a house Martel specially that can be fun to play, and horrible to play against.

A few things I'd want to add in regards to icon removal is the potency of Valar Dohaeris (TWH) when you've removed several key character's icons. It is also great that vengeful is an optional keyword on that turn.

The other thing to note is that Viper's Rage doesn't just remove one of each icon from your opponent's characters in play - it removes one of each icon from any character that player controls for the phase. So it is a lasting effect that even applies to characters added within that phase (ambush, etc). Very potent card.
    • OKTarg likes this
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LorasTyrell
Nov 16 2012 05:19 PM
Ahahah yeah I know Skelton, very annoying for your apponent :)

However, do you guys think this icon removal strategy works wll only in joust, or it is good for melee as well? Playing with my friends I almost always win jousts with this kind of deck, but i never get to win a mele...
Well, World's proved that, for now, comboing Hellholt Engineer (CbtC) with The Scourge (ODG) is pretty bloody brutal in Melee. Pretty sure that's not gonna last though. So, have fun with it until the next FAQ! :-D

The other thing to note is that Viper's Rage ... [stuff I don't wanna hear] ... Very potent card.


Ridiculous card would be better. We have one guy who plays a Viper's Rage deck based on the 2C1C deck. We all hate playing him. ALL. HATE. Very potent words. ;-)
    • Kennon and zordren like this
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slothgodfather
Nov 16 2012 06:54 PM
2C1C deck? Oh you mean the Quentyn deck the made with Damon? Is he using it for joust or melee? Tell me more! lol.
Yes - it's based on that Quentyn deck, with a few changes... we removed To Be a Viper (SB) and subbed in The Prince's Wrath (PotS)... plus a few other changes I don't recall. Maybe a Hellholt engineer or two.

He's using it for Joust.
I've added Little and Less (ARotD) to a number of decks due to this specific deck's existence in our meta. Stark murder events are popular too... so it's a help either way. Just gotta time it right.
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ronnybowman
Nov 16 2012 09:49 PM
Would Rule by Decree (Core) trigger The Brimstone (TBC) as well? Does that let you pick one character for each card discarded?
Well, pretty sure it would - but unless you were doing shenanigans that allowed challenges during the plot phase... it would be pretty useless. Brimstone's effect only lasts until the end of the phase.
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ronnybowman
Nov 16 2012 11:51 PM
Duh
Haha - don't fret - we've all made the mistake with deck ideas... oooh, that would be cool if - oh wait. Dangit.
Or combine with the aptly named Scheming on the Sand (PotS) if it is Summer and the challenge phase ;)
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emptyrepublic
Nov 17 2012 03:17 AM
Scheming on the Sands (the card!) would better better if the cost was not so flippin' high.
ronnybowman - if you used one of the Rookery cards to flop RBD in the challenge phase, it would work. Not necessaryily reliable, but it could be fun when it happened! :)
One of the big reasons why I like the "Men of Duty" plot card! (3-7-1 "all your unique characters get +1 Str and a mil, power, and intrigue icon during the first challenge).
Why do I have the feeling they didn't take into account icon removal when they made the Naval Support mechanic. I guess it all depends on how plausible the ruling is. With a lot of mechanics and decisions in the game they seem to make a knee jerk ruling because the mechanic is really cool but they didn't think of it in relation to all the cards they have available in the game. It's the major downside of having the LCG permanent card system. Great article.

Scheming on the Sands (the card!) would better better if the cost was not so flippin' high.

Yeah, when it is compared to other plot manipulation cards, it does seem horrifically overpriced! Though if you intend to return two Nobles with GG, then it isn't too bad.
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emptyrepublic
Nov 18 2012 03:16 PM

One of the big reasons why I like the "Men of Duty" plot card! (3-7-1 "all your unique characters get +1 Str and a mil, power, and intrigue icon during the first challenge).


Right, but remember those lasting effects! If one of those characters is hit with a Prince's Wrath or Orphan they lose whatever icons they gain from Men of Duty so they end up with only their printed icons. Also, once the first challenge is done the lasting effect from Prince/Orphan will hit the card's original icons since the plot icons will be gone.
Yeah it is not a perfect solution by any means, but has come in very handy for me on several occassions. It's got decent stats and sometimes you know all it takes is getting off that one challenges to get your effects going and/or foiling an opponent's plans :)

I've also started messing around with Stalwart Shield - even OOH - for some noble-heavy decks. ANYTHING to hamper those annoying icon-stripping tricks!