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The Grand Melee - 5 Most Dangerous Men
Jan 17 2013 06:00 AM |
bigfomlof
in Game of Thrones
Small Council The Grand Melee bigfomlof
Welcome back to The Grand Melee - Psych 101. I apologize for the long hiatus but life, as is so often said in these forums, intervened. We had our second daughter and any free time I manage to acquire gets transferred to sleep. Sort of.In any case, in this installment of Psych 101 we'll be taking a closer look at the Melee format's 5 most dangerous men. Now, these cards might not be the best of the best, or even the best version of a card as glorified here. Regardless, the purpose of these articles is to highlight those cards, tactics or situations whose impact on the psychological landscape of the 4-player Melee is both undeniable and of epic proportions.
So, what makes a man "dangerous"? First, for this particular thread the man must be unique--no Bannerman or armies. No, we're looking at those individuals whose mere presence is enough to forge temporary alliances between the other 3 players around the table. And it is this final point that gets a man on this list: when the man is marshaled the very air in the room grows heavier, there is a stillness, a majestic silence. The game has changed, and all eyes turn to his grim visage, and knowing glances pass furtively around the table. These 5 cards listed below represent, in this humble author's mind, those men in the game who most affect the other players' styles, who change their decisions, who impose, by their very presence, an almost mono-focus on their defeat. Only once in the Dead pile can the others breathe again, and turn back to each others' throats.
5. Beric Dondarrion (IG)
This may seem like a surprise, what with all that's written about how easy it is to rid the world of the Lightning Lord, but I find both this man and his whole Brotherhood to be a marvelous pain. Of course we must assume that there is no power on his owner's house card, and as such, this guy is nigh impossible to kill. Fine, blank his text or return him to hand, his still manages to live and be this unburnable, unstoppable badass--like some movie killer who just won't die. In reality, there are very few cards that can send Beric to the Dead Pile, and they don't pop up too much in the Melee format. It takes a concerted effort on the part of the other 3 players to dispose of this guy. One Nightmares
Nightmares (LoW) him, another Flame Kisses Flame-Kissed (Core)
him and the third tries to stab him in the face. All that time spent on Beric allows his owner to do other things while the collective back is turned.
4. Robert Baratheon (TGM)
This one might be controversial, but there is something about this Bob that gets under everyone's skin. First, his text simply begs that you jump on board to defend. It's like, impossible to manage restraint. Even if your side wins the challenge you've knelt someone useful, thereby freeing up another challenge type for Bob's owner or opening up a weakness for an "ally's" backstab. The problem is, really, why would Bob's owner attack alone with this guy unless he had a trick up his sleeve? He invites you to the party and then slaps everyone in the face. The group focuses on getting rid of him mainly because he messes with their minds. And that's just insulting.
3. Stannis Baratheon (KotStorm)
Sure, the only King requirement can be a hindrance, but this guy's effect is global and worth extirpating immediately. Some dupes and 2 Power of Blood turns and this version of Stannis potentially denies a total of 27 cards to his opponents outside of the Draw phase. As the game has become more draw-dependent and a House that can't draw 5 cards a turn loses, his ability, which is always "on", is powerfully enormous. If you and your sudden buddies don't ice him you'll finish the Melee having gone 17 cards into your deck. And you won't have won.
2. The Red Viper (TftRK)
I realize that this is not the most popular Viper out there, and most Martells run agendas, but this list is all about what effect the man has in Melee should he come to the table. You won't see this guy often, but when you do, he changes everything. Unlike the other dangerous men who garner targets on their foreheads, the Viper changes the game by dismantling most Houses' interest in attacking him. Who needs another Valar, anyways? the other impact he has, that makes him almost the most dangerous, is that sometimes another player has nothing to lose by killing him, and so the game is in this constant state of weird equilibrium. If I kill House A's 3 guys, he'll just direct kill the Viper and I've lost everything. Few cards change the psychological dynamic like Viper Morgulis. Not bad for a guy who gets about 12 pages in the books, eh (I know that number's not right, but you get my point)?
And, finally:
1) Euron Crow's Eye (KotS)
This guy is maddening. Immune to events so you have to actually kill him the hard way--and he's one hell of an elusive target. With Greyjoy's endless save opportunities and limitless little guys as cannon fodder, you just can't get to him. To make matters worse, all those weenies defending him are stealthy and end up hitting you despite your best defenses. Once he's on the table, if the other players don't join forces immediately, the game is over. The momentum Euron provides is unassailable once it gets going. The collective groan that emerges when this bastard hits the table can be heard all the way to Essos, I'm sure.
Well, there you have it. I hope this list inspires some kind of debate, and I look forward to reading below all those comments asking how I could have forgotten whomever. The next Grand Melee - Psych 101 will turn the lens on the 5 most dangerous women. I'm already committed to not including Meera Reed.
- Seriously and MotoBuzzsawMF like this



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20 Comments
Mel should be #1 or #2 on the Ladies list, honorable mention to the rarely seen Rhaegar for his "I can Valar any time I want to" effect?
And I agree with Skowza. The other Red Viper is much more stronger, because in nearly all games one of three opponent will have more characters. On Stahleck most of the melee decks, which make the cut, played valar and there were two or three valars in some games. So to kill everything is not a big deal. It may prevent the people attacking you in mil challenges, but with all those losing stuff in Martell, people will always think twice about attacking a Martell player even if that Viper is not on the board. And that is for a cost 5 character without a keyword? I guess the best thing of the viper, is that the response may be triggered after a valar hits the board to clear all characters with a duplicate or saved by another effect.
Well, to be honest, I expected him at the to end of this listeing, but not this version.
I'd prefer Euron Crow's Eye (TGM) !
He can be sooo disgusting. He's not that good all by himself (but the other version is neither), but once you got some locations like Fishmonger's square or Corpse Lake, he'll be a beast. And even if you don't have 'em out, he pushes Asha and Theon and Alannys to aquicker use of their abilities. And due to the fact that the Maester's Path is an Agenda not commonly seen in Melee games, you can play Support of Saltcliffe (GotC) to let him stand anytime an opponent declares a challenge against run.
And even if you look at those versions all by themselfes, I think the KotS version is a little bit weaker. Of course, immune to events CAN be a huge advantage, but that means, you can't play events on him, too. So there's no risen from the sea (if you run it) to protect him. Further on, the other verson has renown and a noble crest, which is both pretty awesome.
So, as a conclusion, I'd say, the KotS version might be the more agressive one, but the other is far more combo-ish and can turn into a huge threat, defensively seen.
Just me?
Seriously though. Stuff like Ser Eldon Estermont (MotM) usually changes the game a bit. As in, everyone wants me dead.
Doran Martell (PotS) makes EVERYONE think a lot harder about attacking because you might not win the challenge...
Areo Hotah (PotS) can kill anybody. I hate that guy...
I think I agree with SerJaime on that when the other version of Euron Crow's Eye (TGM) is out, he is one of the more irritating characters to see.
I also find that Doran Martell (TGM) is a major irritant and target because he is not only Vengeful, but his Response damages the hands of everyone when that player loses the challenge. I hate it when someone attacks the player when he is out. Actually I think most of the Martell Revenge characters(Ellaria Sand (PotS) is another dangerous *******) can be under that consideration.
There are a few more I can think of that really suck. Haha.
The other omission that is odd to me is Myrcella Lannister (ODG), especially out of Martell. You can often make yourself nigh on invulnerable with her in play by being crown regent for a redirect from the first player or 2 then swapping titles so the next guy supports you, not to mention she is great with Ghaston Grey (FtC) - even at cost 2 there are plenty of big threats to remove.
Oh, wait, just spotted women will be listed later. Though Myrcella isn't old enough to be a woman of course...
As for the choice of Red Viper. I went with this one because I think his reset ability has more impact than the fact that he can attack a lot. Honestly, it could go either way, but the idea that the other players can manipulate this Viper is what most made me select him. Yes, the other is more powerful, but this one changes the psychological landscape more, which is what these articles are about.
Thanks, all. I'd be interested to hear more about selections 3-5 as well.
I totally get it now. I actually didn't notice that was the "kill all" Red Viper. I totally agree with him making everyone gasp.
I am not sure that I would gasp when seeing Beric Dondarrion (IG) in play. He can be hard to remove from play normally, yes, but if he isn't used effectively, he'll only be a power place holder. Until he has a bunch of power, I don't think he's that bad.
I tend to agree with why that version of Robert and that version of Stannis are considered high threats.
Are we including Ally and Mercenary characters as considerable dangerous threats even though they can be blasted by discard effects generally easily?
The Sparr (APS) and Gylbert Farwynd (GotC) are two characters that I believe make everyone uneasy until they are handled. Gylbert Farwynd by far more so than The Sparr because he may really hurt players ability to play a lot of their characters until he is gone. Now, maybe because he is an Ally, he might not be considered a direct threat, but I can tell you that he will be the number 1 target for most direct removal as reducer dependent decks may not have the noble characters to marshal.
Salladhor Saan (KotStorm), if left in play, makes everyone uneasy. The ability to stand him with other card effects allows repeatable locations being discarded. Even if you don't have the best locations out, your locations will be next when they become the biggest threats.
Baelor Blacktyde (TIoR) is an absolute candidate because everyone else hates to see him in play when they are using multiple copies of event cards.
In all honesty, I think it sucks to see The Kindly Man (VM) in play for Stark no-agenda. Everyone knows that he can become very dangerous when he is killed, so I suspect players work together to try to remove him from play without killing him.
I think I've derailed from the purpose of this article by talking about a bunch of characters that may not be that threatening because they can be handled generally easily...
I ran a quite successful GJ Raider unoposed deck with him and now a noble Deck and I'd never trade him for the other version. He just brings the deck to a new level of consistency. Of course, one card mill as a standalone is not good. But in combination with all those nice Greyjoy effects (most of them I listed above, Baelor Blacktyde is another one, who really benefits from this ability) it can really really hurt your opponents AND can generate a huge amount of power if you got Corpse Lake.
Doin't want to convince everybody, that this is the "better" version, just want to point out, why I think it is the better one. All in all, both are wonderful for a Greyjoy player, to have on the battlefield.
@Bomb: yeah, Baelor is quite fun, too... Gilbert and the Sparr are really disgusting, but you can get rid of them quick, since they are allies. And power of blood can't prevent them from being discarded :/
@bigfomlof:
concerning your other picks (3-5):
I totally agree with you, that Beric is a beast! maybe 5th place is even a bit too low for him
Robert Baratheon: well he can grab a lot of Power... but you need to set up the scenario carefully for him and even then, it doesn't work all the time... I think, even a char like Knight of Flowers is more consistant. But, of course, Robert is a huge threat.
Stannis: hm... i think, I'd pick Doran Martell above him. Maybe it's just a personal thing, that I don't like this version of Stannis, because it doesn't give yourself such a huge advantage... Doran, especially in combination with the Brimstone is a beast
But in my opinion, his impact is not soooo big in a melee game. Because it is really hard to run a Greychoke Deck in Melee. And in every other Deck, his effect is nice to have, but won't help you to win the game directly
Yeah, one of the things I love about melee is interacting and playing with all your friends. It's funny how people react to certain things. Part of the fun though!