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The Grand Melee - Playing Control in Melee - Part 4: One Card to Kneel Them All

Small Council The Grand Melee FireFox

Hello and welcome back to The Grand Melee. This week’s instalment was originally going to cover multiple houses and how each of them can bring control (or at least try...) to a Melee table. But after a bit of thinking I realized that I had enough material for a full article for at least two of them. So without further ado let’s start with House Lannister.

The House of Lions has a lot going for it in terms of control, but here I will focus on its main strategy, kneel. Lanni Hyperkneel is a Joust staple. It combines the lannister wealth and draw to create massive amounts of character control. While the resource aspect is still welcome in Melee it is not crucial thanks to the Titles. Character control however is always useful. Maybe even more so in a Melee environment where not only House Baratheon fields a high amount of renown characters. These days many Melee decks features one of two massive beat sticks to overpower their opponents. Think about cards like Knight of Flowers (SaS), Rhaegal (QoD), etc... House Lannister’s method of choice to deal with these characters is to kneel them every turn so that they can’t take part in a challenge. Because Lannisters have so much draw at their disposal, they can are nearly always sure to have one kneel effect at hand every turn.

The weakness of kneel lies within that statement “... ONE kneel effect...”. This is enough in Joust where you only have one opponent, but in Melee, you potentially have three big characters to handle or more. So can kneel be a viable control method in a Melee? My honest answer is maybe. As I mentioned in my previous article, it might help you control the flow of the game, but it will not make you win it alone. You will never achieve a total lock-down like you can in Joust. Furthermore, most kneeling cards tend to affect only one character. This means if you have three opponents, each with a strong character, you will have to pull-off three kneeling effects per turn. In other words, you are spending three cards, to control one card of each opponent. In the long term, that’s sort of card-disadvantage is not sustainable. Keeping that in mind, let’s have a look in more detail at what a kneel deck can do in Melee.

First of all, there are ways to reduce the number of characters you have to kneel each turn. All you have to do is reduce the number of people who can attack you right? Fortunately that is quite easy in Melee. Just pick a title that is supported by one of your opponents and he won’t be able to attack you. Ideally, this will be the person that doesn’t have any characters you want to kneel (i.e. possibly no renown characters). This will leave only to opponents that can threaten you, meaning maybe only two big characters to kneel. Also it will force your support to attack them which he is likely to do anyway if you soften their defences with kneel. House Lannister can even take this one step further with cards like Myrcella Lannister (ODG) or Varys (TGM), giving you more Title manipulation and potentially less people to attack you.

Another way of doing this is to use the plots that impose conditions on winning challenges I spoke about last week. If you flip Shadows and Spiders (LotR), all you have to do is handle the intrigue challenges to completely lock down the table. This can be difficult, but if you have a bit of kneel in place on the table and grab the Master of Whispers Title it might be possible to pull off. If you do it means you have free reign of the table for one turn whilst your opponents cannot do anything. Come to think of it, this would be a nice finishing move once you are in place.

But back to kneeling itself. If you manage to get a support each turn, you only need to deal with two opponents. Enter the Queen's Guard (TBC) after whom this article is named. Yes he is a 2-Str ally but that’s not important (I’ll tell you why later on). He single handedly solves the card-disadvantage I mentioned before. If he is on the table, you only need to trigger one kneel-effect per turn. If you have repeatable draw effects, like the Lannisport Brothel (Core), things get even worse for your opponents. Your kneel-effects are now effectively advantageous for you. One kneel effect you trigger can kneel two characters (or even three with Flogged and Chained (TftRK)). The best thing about the Queen's Guard (TBC) is that he works with every kind of draw whatever its source. Think City of Sin (AToT) for example. Even better, is ability is passive, making it practically impossible to cancel.

So yes, he is a 2-Str ally, but that doesn’t really matter. First, because what he brings you is worth it. Second because Venomous Blade (TBoBB) is hardly played at all in Melee. And third because you are Lannister and can cancel most of the ally-hate out there (The Iron Throne (LotR), Death by Payne (SaS)). Also as an added bonus I nearly forgot to mention he is a knight, meaning he can participate in your draw with the Knights of the Realm (KotStorm) agenda and you can fetch him in your deck with Muster (Core).

So this card alone has made kneel a viable Melee strategy. He works especially well with repeatable kneel effects like the Lannisport Tourney Grounds (ODG). However you will still find a way to grab the win quickly. You might be able to slow everybody down, but you are not free of having a single character escaping your grip and doing enough challenges to grab the win. You need to grab it before they do. Fortunately, the Lions have a few renown characters that can do the this job for you. I will leave you with that thought as I am now off to build this deck. See you next time!
  • mischraum, Zaidkw, bigfomlof and 2 others like this


16 Comments

Beautiful article. I have often wondered if my favorite house could pull off a melee kneel win (I haven't yet...). Are there good examples of current decks here on the database you could link to?

Again, thanks for making my dream of this a potential reality. I'm tired of losing to the thug Starks.
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jackmerridew
Jun 21 2012 01:30 PM
i still find that Clansman or a gold based deck with Tywin and Devan are much more viable in melee than kneel. kneel creates more enemies than the dreaded Valar you keep telling me you can't use because it makes you a target.


"Second because Venomous Blade (TBoBB) is hardly played at all in Melee"

i really feel ike these statements should be followed by "in my meta" as oppossed to claiming that no metas run a lot of Venemous Blade because again in mine it is much more popular than viipers bannerman and burning on the sands
I honestly don't see the point of running VB in Melee. First weenies tend to be be less important in Melee, as the game is more centered around renown characters and big hitters. Second, it will not really help you win the game as much as BotS or TVB can. BotS allows you to nullify a power challenge thrown at you and TVB make it very hard to win one against you and make it easier for you to push one through. So as a Martell player I would pick those over VB for a Melee game because I feel they are more efficient. And that is not a meta statement, that is an efficiency call bases on the dynamics of the Melee format.

Also FYI, I didn't say in my meta in purpose, because I look at quite a few Melee decklists from all over the world to get inspiration for these articles and that VB statement is actually a fact.

Regarding Valar, please don't use only part of my argument to say it's unplayable. I think Valar can be effective in Melee, but has to be used more parcimoniously than it can be in Joust. Yes it make you ennemeis but that's not the only reason to not use it. Tempo, renown characters also comes to mind as factors to be considered before including it.
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RedGoldStag
Jun 21 2012 04:21 PM
"One kneel effect you trigger can kneel two characters (or even three with Flogged and Chained (TftRK)). The best thing about the Queen's Guard (TBC) is that he works with every kind of draw whatever its source. Think City of Sin (AToT) for example."

Wouldn't you be able to get four kneels from one kneel effect if you have Flogged and Chained out (since FaC is itself a triggered effect that kneels a character -- original kneel effect + Queen's Guard copy + FaC + QG copy)?

Also, Queen's Guard does not work with "every kind of draw [kneel] whatever its source", only triggered effects -- for instance, the example you give here appears to be incorrect; Queen's Guard shouldn't work with City of Sin because it's not a triggered effect.
RedGoldStag - I was going to point out the 4 for 1 kneel effect, and you can REALLY wreck havok with multiple QGs out. Also, being able to do this will make you a HUGE target in future rounds. All the more reason to think hard about your Title selections.
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slothgodfather
Jun 21 2012 04:36 PM
Yea I don't think the plots are considered triggered effects because you can't ever choose to not use them and don't start with any of the bold text. But QG does work great with Castellan of the Rock (BoRF) and Enemy Informer (Core) to kneel 4 characters. And if you have multiple QG it gets even better.
I think this goes without saying for the most part, but Triggered Effects are defined as effects that are preceded by "Response:", "Any Phase:", and "Phase X:" on cards.

So, for Queen's Guard's ability to work, it must be in tandem with an effect that is preceded by the above bold text.
awesome article, wow that varys is amazing.
@all thanks for pointing out that QG doesn;t work with City of Sin. I got carried away. Still a good card though.
Whilst it may cause a great deal of animosity towards you, what about Fights No Sword Can Win (TRS)?
    • jackmerridew, OKTarg and slothgodfather like this
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slothgodfather
Jun 22 2012 09:02 PM
With a few QG in place, after playing that event you could really kneel out a lot of cards in a melee! Hmm.. I'm assuming it would work even though you would likely kneel characters controlled by everyone.
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jackmerridew
Jun 26 2012 01:03 PM

Also FYI, I didn't say in my meta in purpose, because I look at quite a few Melee decklists from all over the world to get inspiration for these articles and that VB statement is actually a fact.


so you looked at every deck list on cardgamedb and agotcards and most don't run VB, even if thats so, that only means that the people who submit decks to websites don't run VB, i tend to shy away from declaring situational observations as fact ^^

and for the record in regards to VB in melee,Myrcella Lannister!! Bran Stark, Hoster Tully, Old Nan, Killer of the Wounded, Lady Genna, Joffrey, Tommen Baratheon, Alannys Greyjoy, Famished Deckhand,Wex Pyke, Marya Seaworth, Gilly, Samwell, Val and most Asshai and Brotherhood characters are all cards i would gladly pay to get off the board when im in a melee game. repeatable KIll is always useful and we might have a difference of opinion in regards to its effectivness in melee but i really don't think its as black and white as you make it
@jacmerridew - "hardly played at all" is nowhere near the same thing as "never played." Let's not put words in his mouth.

so you looked at every deck list on cardgamedb and agotcards and not a single one run VB, even if thats so, that only means that the people who submit decks to websites don't run VB, i tend to shy away from declaring situational observations as fact ^^


most people that play at tournaments, regionals and so on don't post their decks on sites though you can still have info about their decks in tournament reports, and I bet firefox's statement was mainly about competitive melee decks used in tournaments so that makes his statement even more accurate than just looking at random submitted decks.
    • doulos2k likes this
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jackmerridew
Jun 26 2012 02:23 PM
Hey doulos2k i looked over my post to edit and correct and didnt find where i said never played, ill fix it if you point it out to me, i did edit where i said even if none run VB but that was more a exaggerated hypothetical, so not sure.
@jackmerridew - as originally written, "not a single one run VB" - it really implied that you were arguing as if Firefox had said "never played." Your edit "most don't run VB" is a better representation. Sorry if I misunderstood.