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The Things I Do For Win - Icon Counting (Part 1)

Small Council Things I Do For Win clu

Rhoynar Emissary has been causing a stir in the community about its relative usefulness. To combat the challenge phase shenanigans every deck should be running a decent spread of icons and players should understand the order of challenges. These are basic rules for every deck.

In There Are No Decks Like Me I outlined why having a decent spread of icons is important to winning games here: Brett Zeilers Moonboy Classic 1st Place Deck

I’ll reproduce the general idea here:

The MIP Test
I like to check icons to make sure a deck is well balanced or at least find out the shortcomings. I take the characters and divide them into seven piles, these form a straight line left to right:
  • Military Icon
  • Military and Intrigue Icon
  • Intrigue Icon
  • Intrigue and Power Icon
  • Power Icon
I then place characters that have Military and Power icons above the Intrigue pile and finally tri-cons top the formation. Finally, I count the icons on each card.

Here’s a more visual representation:
MIP
MP
M MI I IP P

More Options: More Wins
Each character has the possibility of being a tri-con, meaning they can participate in every challenge. I tend to harp on this during every article but it bears repeating; THE MORE OPTIONS YOU HAVE LEADS TO WINNING MORE GAMES. I’m thinking about getting this as a tattoo.

Let’s say each player has three characters on the table with all the same strength. One team is mono-cons from each challenge type. The other group is packing all three. The tri-con group can win every challenge or defend one of the challenges and still win which challenge type they want. The flexibility is being able to stop whatever I want and then attack which aspect I want. Pay attention during games where you begrudgingly let challenges through because you want to counter attack. You probably don’t have enough of the icon you want.

Let’s say an average deck contains 40 characters, or 66 percent of the deck. Supposing a three card flop, a deck will draw 12 cards going into Marshalling Phase on turn one. Of those 12 cards 7.92, or 8 rounding up, are characters. The restriction of the amount of gold won’t allow you to play every single one. Aside from gold costs you should pay attention to your icon spread in play. By knowing what icons you have in the deck you should have a good idea of what kind of challenges you have available.

A rough minimum MIP goal count is 30, 20, and 10 or 75, 50, and 25 percent of every character your draw. The percents for each card you draw are 50, 33, and 16. I will assume you are a good Jaime card player and only cram 60 cards into a deck.

The high number is your primary challenge type, then secondary, and finally tertiary. I keep using numbers to demonstrate what the probability is to draw what icon from your deck. Knowing your icon count let’s you make informed choices about who to kill on the board, whether to hold onto an event, and other synergies to pursue during deck building.

To give you an idea of which decks may fit your scheme the following list is the most numerous icon availability for every house:
Baratheon*
  • Power
  • Military
  • Intrigue
Greyjoy
  • Military
  • Power
  • Intrigue
Lannister
  • Intrigue
  • Military
  • Power
Martell
  • Intrigue
  • Military
  • Power
Stark
  • Military
  • Power
  • Intrigue
Targaryan*
  • Military
  • Power
  • Intrigue
*House Baratheon and Targaryan have the most even spread of icons available. You can go many different challenge types as your focus in both of those decks.

Looking at Brett’s Deck as an Example
Even if you are piloting a War of the Five Kings deck you have pack intrigue and power icons. Power icons will come with the Stark territory but nabbing intrigue takes a little more work, kinda.

file:///C:/Users/JERODL%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/19/clip_image002.jpgHere is an example from the same article and exemplifies what kind of knowledge you can pull from your deck after simply counting your icons. Here’s what Brett’s deck contains:
  • 32 Military Icons
  • 12 Intrigue Icons
  • 29 Power Icons
I’m very nervous about the intrigue count. Some of this is mitigated by Knight of Harrenhal and jumper Catelyn. Part of Stark’s strength right now is the number of quality intrigue icons to destroy an opponents hand after killing many dudes. When considering killing off his own characters, characters with intrigue icons sudden become more important to keep track. Twelve characters is a third of his character base so it’s not like he’ll never draw them, he just needs to be aware of them.

Posted Image

Notice in the picture there are three gaps in the lower card line? There are no single icon characters. Brett has ignored them and so should you unless you have a good reason. It stands to reason that a character with two icons is twice as useful during the game then a character with one. A tri-con is the holy grail but those are far and few in between.

Stay Tuned Next Week
Part II builds off of the icon availability established in Part I. It examines how correct challenge order during the course of a game can lead to more Ws.
  • jackmerridew, DubiousYak and FioFioFio like this


16 Comments

So, basically you're saying that characters with more icons are better than characters with less icons? You mean a 3 STR tri-con is actually more useful than a 3 STR mono-con? Wow, thanks for the revelation. Really glad I read this article.
    • RyanSD likes this
It's kind of intuitive, but I never really think about it much when I build decks, and it shows! I'm often intrigue light, or with asshai combat light.

It's a tricky balance keeping track of your gold curve as well as your icons.
Don't hate the article...it's just a tool to count the icons with the explanation to back it up.

You know? people have becomed millionares with similar ideas....have you ever heard of the SWOT Analisys???
    • Cristobal likes this

So, basically you're saying that characters with more icons are better than characters with less icons? You mean a 3 STR tri-con is actually more useful than a 3 STR mono-con? Wow, thanks for the revelation. Really glad I read this article.


It's ok, there are plenty of quality articles on here. He created something so don't just destroy it without contributing something. His series is meant to make people improve who simply enjoy winning. Anyway I like the community here and your post seems very negative compared to the usual criticism we get here. Also Tri-cons are better than mono-cons. Just letting you know. You are welcome.
    • bigfomlof likes this
i would like to see things like this implemented in the deck builder
I'd like to know what this has to do with Rhoynar Emissary? Are you suggesting that it's a good character now?
I think those people criticising the article also might want to take into account that it's part one. I'm imagining it gets more complex.
    • jackmerridew, Zaidkw and bigfomlof like this
Well, the idea is obvious, but I liked that he mentioned the houses' icon strengths as well as some "ideal" (in his opinion) icon distributions. Knowing that tri-cons are better and that you want as many icons as possible is all well and good, but having some sort of goal for your deck design is certainly worth discussing (and present in this article I might add!).
It is important to note that many articles on here are based on simple concepts. The statement "more icons is better" is obvious, but that's not really what the whole article is about. I also imagine that part II will expand things a little bit. Hopefully the "comments" section here will end up being more about card discussion and less about hating or defending the article. So, I'll start. I still think Rhoynar Emmisary sucks......discuss :)
    • bigfomlof likes this
I see the usefulness as you can use it to force a char to defend whatever challenge you don't really need to push through (like forcing their only int icon to defend a pow or die), force something to defend against Pit Viper, etc., and most decks won't have the influence to cancel it. It is a bit matchup-based though since KotHH and Martell/Targ in general are much more likely to be able to cancel it. Time will tell how good it is, I don't think it's obvious one way or the other.
Eh. I'm interested in seeing what folks do with Rhoynar Emissary. The fact that he mentioned it in the article at the start made me wonder what he was getting at. I enjoy the idea of virtually disabling a big character by forcing participation in a challenge you initiate. Perhaps only in a challenge you can win because they are double renown or perhaps because that character does not kneel to attack but still kneels to defend. Maybe you don't like that character, but the ability has merit and can be used to draw big characters into challenges as bait for some other crap. Maybe even to help trigger effects such as Areo Hotah etc.

The more icons a character has, the more easily drawn into challenges they are with Rhoynar Emissary. I may not be able to win a MIL challenge as the attacker, but maybe I can force you to defend with a huge character instead of a piece of crap character.
I do a similar, albeit different system when organising my characters in a deck.

I make seven piles, where one is in the middle, and the other six form a circle around it. Then starting at 12 o'clock and working clockwise, I have Military, Military and Intrigue, Intrigue, Intrigue and Power, Power, finally all three icons in the centre.
It helps me get the right balance of icons within a deck, whilst also deciding which Street would work as the best reducer in the deck.

My main thought with the article is that do most decks have an average of 40 cards? I thought it was 30.
I assume the 6th pile is military/power at 10 o'clock.

I agree with you about the character count. Most decks have around 30 (likely a bit more, but definitely not 40).
I understood the character at 40 count to mean before he then started weeded out a few to get to the 30. Don't most of us build a deck of 80 before it becomes 60?
I just add cards in the card builder that I like. So I usually start with like 80-90 and have to cut from there. I also end up starting with like 15 plots.

I assume the 6th pile is military/power at 10 o'clock.


Indeed! Apologies for missing out the sixth spoke in my wheel.