The White Book S8E14 - 284

can't listen till tomorrow but sounds like a BERLITHA episode !!   whooo hoo !!

I'm for a restricted list but 3 for EACH faction is absurd. 

3 is absurd. 2 is the right number.

Haven't listened the whole episode yet, but I feel like if there was a start to use restricted list as a meta changer by hitting few cards from each faction - it doesn't take long before we get back to the starting place where we currently are. For this to work I feel like FFG would have to take more active role with the list and keep on updating it every 3-4 months by taking many things out and adding as many in to keep the meta moving this way.

Ire, if you buy Aaron's philosophy that is 100 percent necessary. It would require Nate & Danny to take a much more active role in managing the meta than the currently do.

And something that I neglected to mention in my argument against is that the more active that management becomes and more frequent those updates are, the harder it is for new or casual players to stay on top of it. How often would it be a problem? That's hard to put a number on, but as an active, engaged tournament player in 1ED, I still came to a tournament with an illegal deck once due to Restricted List shifts. I know a former World Champ that won a different tournament with an illegal deck. It seems safe to say that the more frequent the changes, the more likely these situations are.

Welcome back Aaron (now just get Greg, Brett & Daryl to drop by)

 

I believe there is a need for a Restricted list because of the Banner system.

In 1.0 there was a built in check and balance system with making 2 faction/houses work together by making you spend extra gold to do it.

With the banner system in 2.0 that check and balance system is gone. You can just take the best non loyal cards and jam them in for free by using the banner agenda.

I am not sure what needs to be restricted or how many from each faction/house (and don't even think it necessarily needs to be the same amount of cards for each faction/house).

But I agree there needs to be checks and balances to curb NPE or to drive new deck ideas especially with the Banner system as the card pool grows; unless all the cards printed from now on are going to be loyal.

 

 

Great episode

you were definitely flying in the danger zone...but in the good way 

Great episode, very 1E navel-gazing and tinkering in tone, felt like a time warp. Aaron can be quite divisive with his forceful views but he is a welcome provocateur. Will and Roy are so nice and Luke pulls his punches so good to see a pugilistic contributor, even if I disagree with his view. I think breaking up combos is bad. Wall and Haunted Forest restricted makes the latter never played. Haunted Forest and Craven would be more interesting, reducing the defence tech but ensuring both cards are played. 1E players find a Restricted List second nature. But as a peripheral 1E player who is also multi-game cardgamer, the existence of a Restricted List is an admission of failure of design and playtesting. And I don't think Thrones needs this at such a young stage of its life cycle. Just a warning that 1E veterans may be distancing themselves from the majority of 2E players who never played 1E, promoting the arrogant 1E veteran stereotype with these suggested impositions. Still, it makes good radio and the old 1E Restricted List (and speculation) filled many podcast hours and threads. Good show, if an acquired taste topic.

Most of the discussion is occurring in Facebook, but just wanted to add a thought hear. If we go the route of the extended RL, I think Aemon is a better target than the birds. Aemon gives NW the opportunity to effectively ignore much of the military claim and removal effects, allowing NW to maintain a board presence with minimal planning or effort. In contrast, I think the birds present interesting choices reach round, especially if your opponent plays Marched, Famine, etc. They're much more dynamic and require more skill than Aemon.

Great episode, very 1E navel-gazing and tinkering in tone, felt like a time warp. Aaron can be quite divisive with his forceful views but he is a welcome provocateur. Will and Roy are so nice and Luke pulls his punches so good to see a pugilistic contributor, even if I disagree with his view. I think breaking up combos is bad. Wall and Haunted Forest restricted makes the latter never played. Haunted Forest and Craven would be more interesting, reducing the defence tech but ensuring both cards are played. 1E players find a Restricted List second nature. But as a peripheral 1E player who is also multi-game cardgamer, the existence of a Restricted List is an admission of failure of design and playtesting. And I don't think Thrones needs this at such a young stage of its life cycle. Just a warning that 1E veterans may be distancing themselves from the majority of 2E players who never played 1E, promoting the arrogant 1E veteran stereotype with these suggested impositions. Still, it makes good radio and the old 1E Restricted List (and speculation) filled many podcast hours and threads. Good show, if an acquired taste topic.

 

While I do agree with most all of this I have never quite gotten the idea of "restricted list is admissions of failure". Or more of why admission of failure should be avoided. Might be a cultural difference.

I would prefer that if there were clear failures known in design or playtesting, that they would be fixed as seen fit by the designer instead of raising hands and going "we admit no failure this is fine". Then again clear failures were handled more with erratas and bans during first edition. Never really liked the way some of the problematic cards got soft ban restricted instead of an errata which would have made the card more all around balanced (Tin link probably best example, never saw that card after the restriction and yeah there probably was someone crazy enough to play it). Would at least like it if future restricted list avoided blantantly soft banning cards - so yeah guess after rambling on I can see part of that failure side as well.

Aaron is back and surprise surprise he's complaining about something. I don't get why people like this guy. I've never heard a more prideful, arrogant, and negative person. Man I've been loving the flow and feel of the white book without Aaron and now that he's back its just awful.

I can say that I have seen people flat out quit this community because of Glazer's negativity and how he loves to tear people down instead of build people up.  I am sad to see that he is back.  If he changed his superiority complex, I would be okay with that, but it is obvious after this episode that he didn't.  Sad day for the White Book.

Ok. Speaking only for myself: this is silliness. It is completely fine to disagree with Aaron and think he's an ass. But the sense that he is some sort of blight on the community is absurd. I'm sorry to hear that anyone "flat out quit this community" because of Glazer but that is easily counterbalanced by the people he's brought into and/or supported in the community (i.e. me among many others). 

 

And it is not like he was able to run the show this week. We debated very thoroughly - both the need for a restricted list, Aaron's first principles about the RL, and his particular choices. There was a huge amount of back and forth. I'm sorry this week wasn't your jam but the denouncement of Aaron is a bit much.