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Wars are Won with Quills - Frostburn
Aug 28 2013 05:10 AM |
Reldan
in Game of Thrones
Small Council Wars are Won with Quills Reldan
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
-Robert Frost
Welcome back! For those that read the previous Wars Are Won With Quills article, this column will have a decidedly different tone. My goal with these articles is to do more than just spout context-free theory - I want to also show how to put these ideas into practice and think like a deckbuilder building actual decks. My aim will be to alternate between theory and practice articles. Let’s begin, shall we?
This is not the put-into-practice article I had originally envisioned. That article was going to explore my design for a Stark The Long Voyage (TPoL), hereafter TLV, control deck, and that deck is no longer legal with the new FAQ due to the errata. However, over the past week I’ve been working on converting that TLV build back into legality using House of Dreams (ARotD) and Harrenhal (ODG) instead. Because honestly TLV was a very efficient tool but is not absolutely necessary for the core concept of this deck to function. So, in this article, not only will I walk you through my deck, but I’ll also show you how it’s changed to deal with new card errata. I call this deck “Frostburn†(thanks to Clint from the Atlanta meta for the name).
So what is Frostburn? One thing I like to do is look for deck concepts that seem antithetical, because those are ones that people tend to dismiss. When you think of a burn deck, you think Targ and roasting your enemies with fire and blood. However, as Robert Frost pointed out, ice can be rather destructive as well. Frostburn is a deck that seems like it shouldn’t work, because it’s playing to Stark’s traditional weaknesses rather than to their known strengths. And that’s the trick - FFG has been sneaking card after card in over the past few cycles that would be insane in any other house but get overlooked in Stark because they don’t fit the known theme of “military fatties kill-kill-killâ€.
The general concept of the deck is that Stark has a large stable of highly efficient characters. The kicker is that many of these are not military characters nor are they non-uniques, and so they just don’t fit in to the common Siege of Winterfell or Kindly Man Stark archetypes. The original TLV version was built on the following pillars:
1) Get lots of cards fast. Between TLV, plots, and other search and draw effects this deck aimed to add 4-6 new cards to hand every turn, providing a lot of options.
2) If your opponent can’t win challenges against you, they can’t win. Shaggydog (LoW) is utterly ridiculous in this respect, because his ability to give an attacker -2 STR is granted to every Direwolf card you control. The more wolves, the more control, and most of the Direwolf cards are incredibly cheap. Having Grey Wind (LoW) paired with Shaggydog (LoW) on the table makes attacking with anybody a risky proposition for your opponent. These effects stack with The Long Winter (ACoS), The Winds of Winter (TWoW), and Threat from the North (PotS) to render most characters useless during challenges.
3) Trait manipulation is extremely good. Old Nan (BoRF) is possibly the best trait manipulator in the game. Old Nan (BoRF) plus Copper Link (GotC) lets you trait manipulate anything at any time. This makes cards like Dissension (QoD), Mance Rayder (TWoW), and Abandoned Fort (RoR) become extremely efficient removal and magnifies the effect of your Direwolf and Creature oriented cards. Possibly my favorite gimmick was making my House card a Direwolf and then kneeling it to trigger Shaggydog (LoW).
4) Search is king. Rickon Stark (MotA) man. At The Gates (GotC) is absolutely broken with him on the table, and he makes Jeyne Westerling (ASoS), A Time for Ravens (ACoS), Wolf Dreams (LoW), and Spending the Winter Stores (QoD) go from good to amazing. These search effects are card draw effects that don’t count against your cap - they’re generally better than card draw because you know what you’re going to get. Adding the cards you need into hand is the key to consistency, and consistency is the key to having a solid deck.
5) Winter is good if you know it’s coming. Many Stark cards go from good to great during the winter. Arya Stark (CoS), Meera Reed (TftH), and Robb Stark (LoW) are all cards efficient enough to show up in non-Winter decks that go off the hook with Winter. Maester of Last Hearth (HtS), Catelyn Stark (AToT), and Mance Rayder (TWoW) are genuinely solid characters that become quite good when its snowing. The gold penalty is mitigated in this deck by having very cheap cards, but many opponents may not be as prepared for the loss of gold.
6) Plots, plots, plots. This deck doesn’t run Valar, and that’s not a typo. Threat from the North (PotS) and The Winds of Winter (TWoW) along with The Long Winter (ACoS) and Grey Wind (LoW) are there to provide a one-sided Valar Morghulis (Core) effect to your benefit. So many of the top decks nowadays are so stocked up with answers to Valar Morghulis (Core) that if you aren’t running it they wind up with a lot of suboptimal cards. People are prepared for you to try and kill their characters - they are often less prepared for you making their characters useless.
The HoD-Harrenhal (ODG) version has had to make some changes. For one thing, the deck is going to be cutting over twenty cards to get back down to size. For another, the recent chapter pack adds some new synergies that are worth exploring. However, my goal wasn’t to build a whole new deck - it was to remix the deck such that it still took advantage of the basic concepts of card advantage and challenge control.
1) HoD-Harrenhal (ODG) is not quite as good as TLV, but then again nothing really has been as good at TLV for providing reliable card draw. You’re losing a couple gold during setup, there’s the risk that nobody dies for an entire turn and you can’t trigger Harrenhal (ODG), and there’s always the chance your opponent is running a plot that can take Harrenhal (ODG) out. However, for all of that this is still an extremely strong, extremely reliable source of repeatable card advantage.
2) Challenge control. The Direwolf cards led by Shaggydog (LoW) still stick around, as does the plot and attachment effects that apply stacking STR reduction to your opponent.
3) The trait manipulation, unfortunately, had to be cut. It was feasible to run a dozen attachments in an 85 card deck, but with 60 cards I can’t manage more than 8-9 without running the risk of having a bad ratio of attachments to characters. In the choice between the Direwolf attachments and the Chains, the Direwolf attachments win out as being a stronger theme.
4) STR vs Cost manipulation provides a subtheme to replace what the trait manipulation was providing the deck - namely an answer to beefy characters that are so high in STR that they become effectively burnproof. Neither Dissension (QoD) nor Abandoned Fort (RoR) cared how high in STR a character was, but with the trait manipulation heavily reduced these aren’t reliable. Enter Mors Umber (TBG), Breaching the Wall (TBG), and Northland Keep (TBG) - cards that provide incredibly efficient answers to shut high STR characters down. Mors Umber (TBG) can be used to both enable these other cards to affect characters they otherwise wouldn’t, and also to help you win your own challenges.
5) House of Dreams (ARotD) does make Fleeing to the Wall (Core) a bit more of a liability than before, but The Banners Gather has provided Rally Cry (TBG) as a suitable replacement. Worse case scenario is that you’ve got the lead all game and it’s your turn 7 plot and kills something trivial like a Narrow Sea (LoW). However, if you hit an early snag or get a slow start, this thing is dynamite for helping you recover.
To further explore this deck and tie this back to the deckbuilding methodology I outlined in the previous article, let’s analyze it through the lens of the Six Questions.
Question 1. What are the plans to consistently get extra cards into hand?
Plan A is HoD Harrenhal (ODG) providing a fairly consistent third card every turn from the start. Plan B for this deck is a lot of things because we’re all about card advantage - the old standby of Sam+Ravens, several plots that provide additional cards, Rickon Stark (MotA), and Maester Luwin (FtC).
Question 2. What does a winning game with the deck look like?
This deck wins when it has removed the ability for the opponent to get any challenges in. It has most likely gotten the full set of Direwolf attachments on the table, and it’s Winter with The Long Winter (ACoS) in play. Between all your draw and Intrigue you have a significant card advantage. Ideally you also timed your Outwit (TIoR) correctly to stop their Valar.
Question 3. What is your answer to Valar Morghulis (Core)?
Outwit (TIoR) is the simplest, most elegant solution to Valar as that’s kinda the point of the plot in general. Stark actually has three of the best Learned characters in the game between Old Nan (BoRF), Maester Luwin (FtC), and Maester of Last Hearth (HtS). Beyond that you’ve got dupes and Nymeria (Core) and hopefully should have the card advantage to recover.
Question 4. Is the gold curve manageable?
The gold costs in this deck are extremely low by design. The plots are mostly 3-4 gold because I’m playing them for the powerful effects more than the stats, and we’re planning on playing under winter conditions. The average cost per card is a remarkably low 1.35, which means you should be able to afford to play 3+ cards a turn every turn, and should manage a decent setup even with HoD. At the Gates (GotC) and Rickon Stark (MotA) help further break the curve by providing an extremely fast and cheap way to establish board position.
Question 5. What does the deck excel at doing?
This deck is extremely good at doing all the things that Stark is not supposed to be good at doing. It draws a lot of cards as explained above. Intrigue is actually a more common icon than Military. It controls the challenge phase through the powerful effects on cards like Shaggydog (LoW) and Catelyn Stark (AToT), and it burns 1-3 STR characters into the ground with Grey Wind (LoW), The Winds of Winter (TWoW), Threat from the North (PotS), and The Long Winter (ACoS). This is extremely strong against Greyjoy, as they are lacking in ways to deal with attachments, have a fair number of low STR support guys, and you can’t win challenges with 0 STR. Also, Bran Stark (VD) with Shaggydog (LoW) basically becomes a Stealth/Deadly/Vigilant Tricon, a complete nightmare for a pittance of gold. Meera Reed (TftH) during Winter provides a repeatable catch-all answer for whatever ails you.
Question 6. What doesn't your deck handle very well and how prevalent is that in the meta?
The main thing you didn’t want to run into were decks that had strong attachment removal. Thankfully most of your attachments are Unique and so are immune to effects like Dragon Thief (AE), so this wasn’t a huge concern. Without Valar you could get run over by decks running a large quantity of very big guys that can overwhelm your control elements. The new cards from The Banners Gather solve the “big guy†issue. Rally Cry (TBG) is the biggest concern I have because it provides such an easy way to knock Harrenhal (ODG) out and Stark really has no good way to get it back. Outwit (TIoR) may be the answer, but the meta right now is so fresh that it’s hard for me to judge.
Frostburn HoD
House (1)
House Stark (Core) x1
Agenda (1)
House of Dreams (ARotD) x1
Plot (7)
The Winds of Winter (TWoW) x1
Threat from the North (PotS) x1
A Time for Ravens (ACoS) x1
At the Gates (GotC) x1
Spending the Winter Stores (QoD) x1
Outwit (TIoR) x1
Rally Cry (TBG) x1
Character (29)
Old Nan (BoRF) x1
Maester Luwin (FtC) x2
Maester of Last Hearth (HtS) x1
Carrion Bird (ASoS) x3
Bran Stark (VD) x3
Samwell Tarly (TRS) x3
Ser Jorah Mormont (PotS) x1
Brienne of Tarth (PotS) x1
Damon Dance-For-Me (VD) x1
Meera Reed (TftH) x2
Reek (MotM) x1
Jeyne Westerling (ASoS) x1
Robb Stark (LoW) x2
Rickon Stark (MotA) x2
Arya Stark (CoS) x1
Mors Umber (TBG) x2
Direwolf Pup (Core) x1
Catelyn Stark (AToT) x1
Location (15)
Street of Silk (LotR) x1
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
Great Keep (Core) x2
Lord Eddard's Chambers (Core) x1
Narrow Sea (LoW) x3
The Searoad (KotStorm) x2
The Roseroad (KotStorm) x2
Harrenhal (ODG) x1
Northland Keep (TBG) x2
Event (8)
Wolf Dreams (LoW) x3
At Night They Howl (LoW) x2
Breaching the Wall (TBG) x1
Paper Shield (QoD) x2
Attachment (9)
Grey Wind (LoW) x2
Nymeria (Core) x1
Shaggydog (LoW) x2
Frozen Solid (LoW) x2
The Long Winter (ACoS) x1
White Raven (TWoW) x1
- bigfomlof likes this
29 Comments
This deck contains 20 cards that you cannot play during setup, an additional 7 three-cost characters and 6 limited locations. You're probably never gonna see a setup of 3 or more cards. Also, many cards you added, such as The Long Winter and Mors Umber, are pure gimmicks and short of any efficiency.
Your setups suck and you don't run Valar, how in the world do you intend to ever have a lead?
Question 6. What doesn't your deck handle very well and how prevalent is that in the meta?
Decks that can build up an unsurpassable advantage during their first turn if not pressured correctly. That's only every tier 1 or tier 1.5 deck in existence.
I'd like you to spout some resource balancing or strategic priorities theory - for your sake.
I hope honesty helps more than flattery.
I've been trying to find a way to make a 'Frostburn' deck with a challenge control element work myself. It ended up focussing around Catelyn Stark (AToT) and Eddard Stark (LoW) as well as the wolves to totally shut down the opponent's challenges. Having Catelyn (and Septa Mordane (AToT)) led me to throw in a few more shadows cards, which took the gold curve up, so I went ahead and added Knights of the Hollow Hill (MotM) for the extra gold. This also allows the deck to run Westeros Bleeds (Core) and Favorable Ground (QoD) to slow down opponents. I've not tried it yet and I do have my doubts but hopefully it'll be fun. Might nab one or two of your ideas to improve it though...
I don't think you need two if you plan on playing A Time for Ravens (ACoS), unless you are worried about it being shut down with Carrion Bird (ASoS). I play a Summer deck and so far no one has tried to take down my raven. Maybe it's more prevalent outside of our meta.
-1 Wolf Dreams and +1 White Raven since you've got 3x Samwell.
Rickon feels questionable. He's fantastic with At the Gates, but you don't have To Be A Wolf or Riders of the Red Fork, and he'll be discarded on your Threat turn.
I'm curious to see if Mors Umber + Breaching the Wall + Northland Keep works in practice. I think that trio might be distracting from the rest of the deck.
Since the house card is considered out of play, how did you manage to do this?
(4.10) House Cards
House cards are considered to be "in play,"
and cannot be removed from play for any
reason.
He's also fantastic with Jeyne Westerling, A Time For Ravens, Spending the Winter Stores, and Wolf Dreams. You don't need To Be A Wolf to make him playable. The previous deck ran Riders to provide an alternative search target, and that's the card I most want to fit back in - I just need to undergo some playtesting to determine what could be cut to make room.
I'm right there with you. I added those in because my hypothesis is that the effects they provide shore up what was previously a weakness of the older version of the deck, but this may not work out in practice. Big parts of deckbuilding are not being afraid to try new things but also being willing to give up on ideas that don't work. I'm pretty well sold on Northland Keep for the sheer efficiency and the ability to shut down dudes like TVB on both attack and defense. Mors and Breaching are going to need to prove their worth and may get replaced.
The setups for this deck are pretty strong - It's a HoD deck so you typically are going to have 4 cards and 6-gold on the table from the start. I'm really not sure what to say, other than that my experience with the deck doesn't match up with the doom and gloom you're speculating must be the case. I'd suggest you give it a shot and see how it works out.
At first glance the number of limited locations bother me a little. After making it winter I would want to get as many gold producers out as quickly as possible and that limited text bogs that down a bit.
In my deck building tinkering I find I really want lyanna stark in a deck like this. But her cost is tough to swallow.
Regarding Lyanna, it's purely the cost that keeps her out. I really wish she had been 3-gold without Renown.
experementation with each set of cards individually is necessary if having them all together doesn't work
bungled orders may be a good fit to flip to threat so you can get multiple discards out of the wolves in a phase plus it can also feint a flip to valar. otherwise im just sitting there with my armies and other vulnrable guys and not attacking on a threat turn. plus you get back to your search plots quicker
im guessing it will be tough to get past big armies to win challenges on offense. you have 8 stealth and 3 deadly (w/o counting the dupes of bran and meera) and realitively low str. bran with wolves and damon too a lesser extent are really the only guys id be very worried about defending against.
Or bleeds decks?
Northland Keep works against both attackers and defenders. It's practically a Stark Scouting Vessel against armies. Mors/Breaching are the more experimental pieces of the deck - I want to experiment with them a bit but the fallback would be:
-2 Mors Umber
-1 Breaching the Wall
+1 White Raven
+1 Northland Keep
+1 Riders of the Red Fork
Keep up the good work!
There's always the option to feed them to Grey Wolf/Shaggydog on a They Howl at Night turn.
This definitely inspired me to dust it off and take another look though. Good read.