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With Fire and Blood - Recursion
Jan 16 2013 06:00 PM |
doulos2k
in Game of Thrones
Small Council With Fire and Blood doulos2k Targaryen
One of the big themes in House Targaryen is Recursion. As far as card effects go, the number of recursion cards in this House are significant, to say the least. Today, we're going to take a look at the recursion cards available, what they do, and how they work (and what you need to watch for or take advantage of).
Now, to clarify, I'm not talking about saves. Recursion is an effect that brings a card back from your dead or discard pile. Cards that prevent cards from leaving play are not part of this mechanic nor a focus of this article. I'm also not going to be including cards that would be considered "jumper" cards - cards that come from hand temporarily and then return to hand. So, cards likeKhal Drogo (Core) or Horseback Archers (QoD) won't be considered true recursion cards for the sake of this article.
There are a few types of recursion available to us. We'll break them down into three general categories:
- Character Recursion: Effects that will bring a character back from either your discard or dead pile, whether that be back to hand or straight into play.
- Attachment Recursion: Effects that bring an attachment back from the discard pile, whether that be hand or play
- General Recursion: Effects that just generally take a card from your discard pile and bring it back to hand
Character Recursion
One of the key elements of this game is killing characters or, at least, getting them out of play. There are few things more frustrating than having characters that simply won't die or continually get resurrected... especially if that resurrection or recursion comes at a low cost. What I'm going to do is break down the cards in the order of their release. I'm not ranking the cards here - what I basically did was to go through each set, card by card, to see which cards have recursive elements.
- To Be a Dragon (SB) - this event has seen play off and on for years, but as the recursion theme seems to have gotten a good bit of support in recent months, this has brought the card back into more mainstream use. All you need is a Power Struggle plot and any character of cost 3 or lower is fair game to be brought back into play. Used judiciously, it can be a brutal surprise to your opponent's battle math. After the event, you've now got a once-knelt character standing and another once-dead character in play. This is just an awesome card. Most common mistake? Trying to use this card while your only Power Struggle plot is actually your revealed plot card. Remember, your revealed plot is not considered to be in your used plot pile.
- Stormcrows (EB) - this one is a type of weird, Hail Mary kind of recursion because you're recurring ALL non-neutral characters from everyone's discard pile back into their decks. I would never play this card. Too many better options for getting cards from your discard pile to risk giving your opponent back something they really want.
- Ambush from the Plains (QoD) - this card sees a lot of play and it's obvious why. With Dissension (QoD) and Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) running amok out there discarding Allies and with the sheer number of Allies we're likely to play, the ability to get Pyat Pree (QoD) back into play and then back into your hand should not be underestimated. On top of that, just generally being able to get expensive cards into play during Challenges using nothing more than your initiative (assuming you've buffed it with Kingsroad Fiefdom (QoD) or Bay of Ice (KotS)).
- Maegi's Promise (QoD) - the most common method of getting that critical character you need back into your hand. You have to wait until Dominance, but if you've lost Rhaegal (QoD) or Daenerys Targaryen (QoD) or Magister Illyrio (VM), this card could save your bacon.
- The Womb of the World (ASoSilence) - this Dothraki-only recursion card sees very little play due to its specificity and the limitation to only bring back non-uniques from the dead pile. It's hard to justify it's 2 cost just for the opportunity to potentially bring back a non-unique Dothraki back to hand. That said, in a dedicated deck, it can be very useful to ensure you get all of the effects you want in play, be it Blood-Crazed Screamer (MotM) for multiple Military challenges or Bitter Crone (IG) to prevent saves.
- Secret Alliance (TBC) - most people use this for its Challenge removal effect, but the ability to almost guarantee you're going to draw back into an important unique character makes this something worthy of a second look if you're trying for some recursion. The flexibility of this to give you some additional control when you most need it will be worth it. Is it better than Maegi's Promise? It depends. Secret Alliance can be used during the Challenges phase. If you time it right, you could theoretically get that Dragon back out of your dead pile just before you draw a card for some other effect. Worth considering.
- Recruitment (VD) - this is probably the latest "superstar" of the recursion theme. The ability to bring ANY non-unique Mercenary or Ally from your dead pile at pretty much any point you wish has so many options. Considering that a lot of our non-unique Allies and Mercenaries have come into play abilities, this card gets even better when you use it to resurrect Long Lances (THoBaW) or Company of the Cat (THoBaW) or even Dragon Thief (AE) or Dragon Knight (TBC). So many options here.
Obviously, this has to do with bringing attachments back from your discard pile. While Targ seems most famous for this ability, as mentioned, it's surprising how few cards actually perform this function.
- Lady Daenerys's Chambers (Core) - the classic attachment recursion card that still sees play in many Targ decks. The key element of this card isn't just the ability to bring Targ attachments back to hand, it's that you can bring ANY attachment back to hand, including Ravens and Chains. Any attachment heavy deck should be running this card. It's almost a must in any Maester or Summer deck.
- Griff (CD) - This is really the first card since LDC that has added to this theme, but it has a catch - Griff has to die and be your only agenda. When he first came out, a number of Griff decks started being run but even with the attachment recursion and potential claim soak, most people have found that running some other agenda is still far superior to Griff's ability. So, even now, attachment recursion primarily relies on LDC.
These are cards that either return anything else from your discard or dead pile - that isn't specifically always a character or attachment. Sometimes it's random, sometimes opponent's choice, other times it's just some other effect. In this category, basically, I'm going to try and catch anything else that could be considered recursion.
- Valyrian Spirit (TWoW) - a very situational card that basically requires you to build your deck with this in mind. Given how infrequently Winter is played out of Targ, it's a tough one to pull off, but it could basically get your entire dead and discard pile back into your deck. Depending on the build, this could be quite good. I played this once out of a crazy Winter Burn deck I was working on. If not for the fact that the Winter Burn deck sucked, maybe I'd have a different opinion. :-D
- Street Waif (AToT) - played a lot when it first came out, it fell out of favor because it was usually only good in the early game and then could quickly become useless, not to mention how incredibly weak the character is and, therefore, very susceptible to burn or Venomous Blade (TBoBB). The introduction of Long Lances has completely changed that due to the ability to constantly restand the Waif each phase with a single Ambush along with Recruitment to get her back when she dies. With this combination in place (especially in multiples), it is not uncommon for Targ to have no more than a single card in their discard pile at any given time.
- Archmaester Marwyn (CD) - a strange and sometimes dangerous recursion ability that you tend to only want to trigger if you can ensure that all three options you provide to your opponent are equally bad (for them). If not, then you can guarantee that the card you want is the one that goes back to the bottom of your deck.
- The Golden Company (AHM) - with one of the more hotly debated abilities when it first came out due to the weird "random draw" aspect of the discard pile, its ability should not be underestimated. Honestly, if you can get this card into play with the Long Lances/Street Waif combo, you can get yourself to a place where you have ZERO cards in your discard pile. How? Well, if you only end up with one card in your discard pile and you can trigger this ability, randomly grabbing one card will net you the only card that's left.
These are cards that are arguably not part of this theme, but I figured I'd include them just so the comments didn't fill up with "How could you forget Forever Burning!!?"Self-recursion cards are really in a category by themselves as this card type is not unique to House Targaryen. I think some of these are downright terrible, but some are phenomenal.
- Forever Burning (Core) - a staple for many burn decks since it was first released in the Core, this card can be brutal during a Threat from the North (PotS) turn. If you have the Influence, you can just keep burning cards down and getting them discarded during the Dominance phase, over and over again until you run out of Influence. This is a card you don't want to keep in your hand unless you're fairly sure you can win any intrigue challenges that might come your way. Why? Once this card is discarded, it's recursion effect is useless - it has to be in the Dead pile in order to be able to kneel Influence to bring it back to hand.
- Pentoshi Guildmaster (Core) - I don't know if I've ever seen anyone play this card, honestly. 3 gold for 2 STR... granted, it's a tri-con with recursive ability, but he's still gonna cost you another 3 gold to get into play. There are far better 3 gold cards I want to put in my decks. Have any of you used this guy to good effect? If so, please shout out in the comments and tell me what I'm missing... he's just terrible.
- Blue-Lipped Warlock (QoD) - annnd another card that I've seen get little actual play. 2 gold for 1 STR and this only has an Intrigue icon. At least the play restriction for getting it back to hand is easier to pull off... but still, show me what I'm missing here. Does anyone play this card... and also think it's a solid performer for them?
- Ride Them Down (ODG) - well, what can I say... it recurs itself. Giving Renown is nice, of course, but this card sees very little play. If Targ had a good bit more playable Knights for a Knight theme, I think this would see more play. (Although WWDrakey did take Targ Knights to a solid performance... I'll let him tell us about it in the comments if he so desires.) As far as Dothraki go, it's tough to justify a slot as most of the Dothraki are pretty fragile.
- Dothraki Stallion (APS) - this doesn't see much play because, well, the power challenge is not usually something you want claim replacement on and it's unpredictable what you'll actually get from your discard pile. That said, in the right deck, I'm sure a Shagga player could come up with some way to abuse this card.
In principle, any recursion is a good thing. I do want to caution you, however, to not just toss recursion elements into your deck without really thinking through why they're there. Only include a card like Maegi's Promise if your deck really relies on certain characters and you need some form of protection to get those characters back. Just including Maegi's Promise because all of your characters are awesome and you just want to have some way of getting one back doesn't amount to much of a plan. Decide what's important in your deck and determine which recursion elements are going to gain you the most ground.
Recruitment, To Be a Dragon, and their ilk or only worth including if you know there are cards that are going to take specific advantage of being recurred. I know how tempting it is just to get To Be a Dragon into the deck so you can perform that surprise challenge manipulation of standing a character and bringing someone back into play... but, if you're playing a Dragon deck, this can give you a dead event in hand if all of your most important dead characters (read: Dragons) are over 3 gold. Like anything else in this game, you need to have a reason for that card taking up a slot. You want a predictable draw and a recursion engine that works toward your deck's synergies.
Well, that's it for this time! Did I forget a card? Do you disagree? Sound off and let me know!
- WWDrakey, Archrono, bigfomlof and 1 other like this
10 Comments
I'm working on something to also deal with the pentos location but, he still is just constantly able to recur that as well. Enough rambling, the point remains is I can see the use of the blue lipped warlock.
Blue-Lipped Warlock (QoD) simply because I always use
Heir to the Iron Throne (QoD) and declare intrigue as the challenge I cannot do, so his ability is basically useless. With another agenda, and maybe in a non-dragon deck, I might consider him.
Long Lances (THoBaW) out you can stand the waif so many times you will be sitting with a one-card discard pile. If he dies you can bring it back with to be a dragon, or with recruitment, and use it to get back the card. Giving the little guy a hrakkar pelt and you are able to trigger him even without the help of long lances two times a round.
Maybe a maester deck? Brass Link (HtS) and Val (RotO) for heavy discard?
Maybe Targ recursion isn't quite there yet...
By figuring out suitable supports and using Lord Commander of the Kingsguard I was able to stick my nose into some challenges where I wasn't expected, burn down opponents key characters with Barristan, net renown... and then bounce him back up again with Long Lances (THoBaW).
I also ran a variant of that deck as a Joust deck earlier on, and it seemed... oddly functional. So if you start off with that list and strip and replace the more Melee-ish aspects (like Ward (VM), which is a brilliant Melee closer) you should be able to get a good starting point for a Targaryen Knights Joust-deck.