Card Game DB
Sign In
Create Account
Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
1
How to win a Melee by following these 31 simple tricks!
Nov 14 2016 12:00 AM |
JCWamma
in Articles
Worlds was a couple of weeks ago and Stahleck is just around the corner, and that means it’s that time of the year when a bunch of predominantly-Joust players branch out into the other primary format of the game, Melee. To help people along the way I’ve composed a list of helpful tips and tricks for winning the only game that matters.
First I’ll provide a brief background of my history with the Melee format across both editions - I used to suck, then got better by better players telling me what I was doing wrong. My route to improvement came through adhering to the following general guidelines:
General Preparation
First I’ll provide a brief background of my history with the Melee format across both editions - I used to suck, then got better by better players telling me what I was doing wrong. My route to improvement came through adhering to the following general guidelines:
General Preparation
- Go in with the right mindset. A lot of players that focus mainly on Joust deride Melee as being some nestbed of collusion and luck, and as a result think it’s a great idea to treat the format as a joke, rather than the social, competitive game that it is. This is not to say you shouldn’t have fun playing the game, of course you should, but if you are only playing to try to sabotage the experience for the other three people at your table and not even aiming to win while you do it, you may want to reconsider. And if you are serious about this, you’ll want to practice and prepare (and probably more than a week in advance, honestly) just as you would for a Joust. You’ll find it pays off.
- Include the following cards by default:
Superior Claim
The Kingsroad
A Clash of Kings
Calling the Banners
These cards form the basic structure of a typical Melee deck, for reasons that if not already obvious will hopefully become obvious throughout the following points. They don’t have to go in, but as always with guidance rules, know why you’re breaking them. - Structure your deck for shorter games. Games are quicker in Melee. This is a natural consequence of the four-player format - A Game of Thrones is a race to 15 power, but in Joust you only need to outrun the other player, and you can do that by pushing them back as well as you can by pushing yourself forward; in Melee, if you expend effort to push one player back, it only serves to aid the other two players. As a result, people tend to build more self-centred, constructive decks, and a natural consequence of that is an increase in power grab (such as Superior Claim, see above). This is further compounded by rival bonuses adding in power that doesn’t exist in Joust, and thrice the opponents to potentially gain unopposed from. In practice, what this means is that cards that offer short-term tempo at a long-term cost increase significantly in value for Melee, because the average Melee game goes perhaps 3 rounds, instead of the usual 5-6 rounds. This makes cards like Hear Me Roar!, Blood of My Blood and Growing Strong far more powerful in Melee, while tempo-hits that set you up long-term lose potency. This is also true of economy - compare the power of The Roseroad or Seven forbid The Arbor, to that of The Kingsroad or a 0-cost reducer. One set provides no boost the turn you play them, while the other has an immediate impact.
- Decide what your intended and backup closing plots are. It’s important with any deck to know what it looks like when it wins, but that’s doubly important in Melee. Having a plot that aids your cause is important, partly because of initiative (see below) but also partly because you generally want to be able to gather power quickly in Melee to win a turn earlier than others expect you to, and plots are a suitable way to generate power. A Clash of Kings is obviously the primary example (see point 1 of this section); however, you need to have at least one backup way to win. If you don’t, and you aren’t able to close on your designated turn - maybe an opponent has a couple of Hand’s Judgements, or maybe someone revealed Fortified Position - then your opponents will make sure you get punished for falling short.
- Economy plots can be volatile. Beware plots with a catastrophic downside - Varys’s Riddle sees enough play to make Summer Harvest a very dangerous opener, although if there’s no Riddle you can make a fortune. You see the occasional Naval Superiority, and if you spend your Trading with the Pentoshi fruitlessly there then you’re in big trouble. There’s no right answer here - in a smaller tournament you have to try to read the meta, and in a larger tournament (like Stahleck) you need to decide whether you’d prefer consistency or the potential for a bonanza. If you dislike both choices, determine whether your deck actually needs that early burst of economy.
- Your cost curve. As a general rule the trend towards high-impact “burst†economy and the existence of the Master of Coin means you can tend slightly higher on your cost curve, but not overboard. Accept that you probably only get to play maybe 2 big hitters in the first couple of rounds, and after that you’re likely moving on to “closer†plots that don’t offer the same economic push.
- Initiative matters. Player order is extremely important in Melee. This is partly because of titles and their impact on the game, and partly because going first is generally a very bad deal unless you’re winning. As a result, and particularly on rounds where you are trying to close, winning initiative can be key. This makes plots like Sneak Attack and A Clash of Kings (there it is again!) important Melee cards, as well as Calling the Banners for being the only economy plot with halfway-decent initiative. It also makes Snowed Under a sneaky-good shout if you’re not ready to close but feel someone else might be. This also applies to your draw deck. Some cards are substantially better when you’re going first, some when you’re going last. A card like Raiding Longship, fine for an unopposed deck in Joust, struggles to have the same impact in Melee because you’re less likely to guarantee going first, and also less likely to want to go first in the first turn or two. Incidentally, initiative boosts are worth more as a lot of people run similar closing plots, so The Kingsroad takes on additional value (see point 1 of this section).
- Include power grab cards, particularly those that don’t require winning challenges. The first part is hopefully obvious from the “race to 15†point before, but less obvious is the second part. This is because it is a lot easier to control people during challenges. It’s where a lot of the cross-table cards can impact the game, it’s where the titles support/oppose impact the game as well as where the redirect is relevant. Much harder for an opponent to prevent, however, is you being able to trigger a Riverrun Minstrel, or a Consolidation of Power, or a Heads on Spikes. The current rulers of this deckbuilding approach are Catelyn Stark (Wolves) and Cersei Lannister (Lions), who will incidentally pick up power just from the game happening, without you even having to do anything but remember their triggers.
- Include surprises. This is related to the above point, but if you put all your cards on the table, opponents can factor them into their calculations and play around them. This is why a card like Superior Claim is so powerful - while it’s unlikely to truly catch an opponent off-guard, they can’t know you have it until you play it. Ambush characters in general are good for this, as they let you suddenly change the state of the board after your opponents have calculated everything. Events also take on an additional importance in Melee for this reason, as they’re hidden information that often are cheap to play. Due to the truncated number of rounds in Melee, every single “surprise!†moment is increased in magnitude and importance.
- Look at which cards scale up in Melee and which don’t. Often it’s a case of a card’s wording, where it says “an opponent†or “each opponentâ€. Compare, for instance, Melisandre and Even Handed Justice. Melisandre kneels a single character, controlled by a single opponent; EHJ kneels a character controlled by each opponent. If you spend your effect to deal a major tempo hit to one opponent, you’ve put effort into hurting one opponent, and that only helps the other two, as well as likely making an enemy. On the flipside, some cards are actively better in Melee due to their wording. Take Ser Amory Lorch, who only requires an opponent to have 3-or-fewer characters, not each opponent. He doesn’t even require it be the opponent he’s in a challenge against! Another good example is The Dragon’s Tail, a card derided in Joust for giving you a net advantage of one card but your opponent a net advantage of two; in Melee, however, giving a single opponent 2 cards in order to gain 1 yourself is still overall a good deal for you, and you have the power to choose the opponent you’re happiest to have extra cards. Calling the Banners (showing up again, see part 1 of this section) is also a great example, as you can choose the opponent to count the characters from.
- Consider bargaining tools, but don’t rely on them. Some people swear by cards that let you strike deals with your opponent - for instance, being able to boost another player’s character with Margaery Tyrell during a challenge you’re not participating in. Personally I’m less of a fan of these because I prefer to make friends with words than with deeds and the idea of kneeling my character to help out an adversary is one I balk at. However, there is something to be said for giving opponents reasons not to attack you, whether those are positive (“I’ll choose you as my opponent for The Dragon’s Tail if you attack that other player!â€) or negative (“If you trigger Ghaston Grey on my Khal Drogo, I have all three copies of Dracarys! in my hand and will rain down on you with the fury of a thousand suns.â€). This latter approach, where you push deterrents on your opponents, can be highly effective and allow you to control the game far beyond the actual value of a card - but make sure your opponents respect the deterrent, or it’s worthless.
- Try to maintain a healthy icon balance. This might seem a bit unnecessary as a point to emphasise, but you’d be surprised how easy it is to neglect an icon - particularly intrigue (as card advantage has less time to shine) - in Melee. Both to give you greater opportunities at picking up UO or Rivals power, and to serve as a deterrent for others to hit you for ‘free’ power (costing you claim), a wide icon spread is important.
- Think about titles. It’s possible you can afford to slacken your deck in certain regards and focus on certain titles to fill in the weaknesses, particularly draw and economy. This is fairly unreliable - you may not win initiative or be first player, and even if you are then the title you want may be the one randomly removed from the pool - but it’s an option to consider.
- Try to gauge your opponents early on, both their decks and the people playing them. To win a Melee table, first determine what you’re facing. From a deck standpoint you need to figure out their most likely surprises so you can play around them, and whether they’re going to try to win quickly or slowly. From a player standpoint, players tend to fall into different ‘archetypes’. Some players will try to win the game through talking; others will be more insular, often Joust players outside their comfort zone (although they could just as easily be playing a combo deck that doesn’t require so much crosstable interaction); and some will be drunk and looking for a good time, a story to tell more than a win to celebrate. Play the players as much as the table - that Joust player may be more interested in a complicated play than the drunk player, who may be more interested in a ‘banter’ player than the talker, who may be more interested in a mutually-beneficial play than the Joust player. A word of warning though, some players may seem to change playertype midgame!
- Ascertain the likely ‘speed’ of your opponents, particularly when it comes to closing. Related to the “deck†part of the above point, you need to know which players you can afford to let get power early and which need to be hammered down from round one. Stark, Greyjoy and to an extent Tyrell can amass power very quickly at any time; Martell or Night’s Watch, not so much (in the case of Martell they can, but typically not until round four and onwards).
- Figure out your mindset. Are you one of those playertypes I outlined before? There’s no shame in being any of them, but make sure you’re aware of your own strengths and weaknesses as a player where possible, and make your peace with them.
- Think about titles, again. Remember thinking about titles during deckbuilding? You need to think about them again, twice as hard, during the game. Each round you need to know which titles you’re OK to get, which you’re not, and make sure you’re high up enough in the player turn order to definitely get a title you want. Do you need that extra gold? That extra card? That extra power challenge? Are you sitting on Trial By Combat and desperately want that Master of Whispers? Make sure you get it.
- Think about titles, again, again. Again? Again. But remember, when it comes to the above, your opponents are doing the same. You can use this to your advantage in two key ways: firstly, by taking a title you expect someone else needs, in order to deny them; secondly, and more subtly, position yourself to support/rival/be supported by the person/people you want.
Example: this is an example of evaluating an opponent’s needs and denying them, from the 2016 Gencon Melee. I was 2 power away from victory and on course to win in the challenges phase, with a Stark player going after me on 14 power themselves but unable to win unless they topdecked power grab. I didn’t need any specific title to ensure my win. The Master of Laws title was available for me to take, but I chose not to using logic that was doubtless-impeccable. The Stark player took Master of Laws, the third card they drew was a Riverrun Minstrel, and they played it to win. If I’d played the percentages game and took the title myself, I would’ve won that table and received 15 points; instead I finished second with 6 points. That’s a hell of a drop-off for one poorly-selected title. - Consider player order. This is quite a wide-reaching point, but essentially it boils down to being aware of who you’re following and who follows you. If the person following you has a military-heavy deck, make sure you aren’t the most enticing target; if you have a card that’s going to upset a player, try to aim it at a player who has already gone; try to arrange it so that people will be tempted to put the opponent to your left in first (assuming you want to go last), so that you don’t have to expend a high initiative plot to get the position you want.
- Try not to appear too threatening, but don’t get too far behind. This is a tough balancing act to manage. People like to say “the trick is to not appear threatening while still actually being threateningâ€, but in the relatively small cardpool that second edition has, that’s just not that practical. If you don’t look at all threatening, it’s probably because, well, you aren’t. What I advocate is not appearing too threatening. Rather than making yourself not worth attacking, which is difficult to do while staying in with a shot, endeavour to make yourself a suboptimal target. Much easier! Note, it’s not just your current power total that’s threatening to people, it’s how quickly they think you can reach 15.
- If in doubt, prevent other players from gaining power. You know how I said you should put surprises in your deck? Your opponents’ decks will have surprises in too. Never assume you can safely let them get to 13 or 14 power, because they may well have a trick to, surprise, actually get to 15 power. This is as true round one as it is on round four - giving them that seemingly meaningless 5th power by letting the challenge through unopposed because you want to keep this character standing in case you luck out and win dominance… that could be the power that wins that opponent the game.
- Don’t outright lie, but obfuscate, overemphasise and deflect. I strongly advise against telling lies, unless you’re literally winning the championship from it or something. Reputations spread like wildfire in the Thrones community, and if you get a reputation as a liar or dealbreaker, nobody will believe a word you say at a Melee table ever again. And getting people to believe words you say is vital to being good at Melee! However, and this is a big however, this does not mean you have to be an honest goody-goody from set up to 15th power. Lies are frowned upon, but half-truths are a valuable and accepted form of currency. Pointing out the possible routes to victory for an opponent and leaving a logic gap (suggesting they get unopposed from a player they support, or assuming they have a Superior Claim in hand despite their frustrated insistence to the contrary); explaining in detail why what you have on the board only takes you to 14 without pointing out you have an Olenna’s Informant in your hand; feigning annoyance when the second best card in your hand is pulled for intrigue claim; explaining why a certain move is optimal for your opponent without pointing out that, while it gains them two more power, it leaves you open to push through that Superior Claim; these are all not only acceptable moves, but actively encouraged.
- Don’t play out your cards too early (but make sure you play them at some point). Some people like to hold back their power grab until the turn they win, especially the likes of Superior Claim. This feeds back into the “present weakness while remaining secretly strong†thing from before. Personally I take a more bullish approach, playing the events when I have them - what if I draw another Superior Claim, and get frustrated by the “once per challenge†aspect? What if I lose it to intrigue claim before I get another opportunity to play it? What if somebody else unexpectedly wins, and I end up with 2 power (and thus 1 point) fewer than I would’ve done otherwise? However, what I definitely do advocate is pretending you don’t have a certain card by not immediately playing it at what would logically be the optimal time. For instance, the opponents are worried you have a Lady Sansa’s Rose. Someone attacks you, and you win on defense with a single Knight. “See? If I had a Lady Sansa’s Rose, I would’ve played it then!†you point out, and the opponents can discount your power grab from their thoughts… only for you to drop it later when they’ve missed out on their opportunity to stop you.
- Try not to create enemies. Again, this goes back to the Put to the Sword thing from before. However, some players can get really salty in Melee if they feel they’ve been unfairly targeted, especially competitive, insular Joust players. The last thing you want is to give one guy a feeling that he needs to ‘get one back’ at you for some slight, perceived or legitimate. If you are going to use single-target effects it’s often better that they be open information on the table, for example Ghaston Grey. Then you can use them as negotiating/bargaining tools, and if your opponent walks into them they only have themselves to blame. If you Put their best character to the Sword, however, they may feel victimised, and give back as good as they got. You especially don’t want to outright take someone out of the game altogether, because once they can’t win they may well take an attitude of “if I can’t win, I have nothing to play for but make sure you aren’t rewarded for taking me outâ€, and that’s a fast-track to a 3rd-4th finish for both of you.
- Know when to keep and break deals, and when others might do the same. This goes somewhat back to the “lying†point from before, as well as the “enemies†point. You don’t want to be that gullible fool who rests their plan for victory on someone else staying honest; you also don’t want to keep a deal if you categorically know it will make someone else win when they otherwise might not have done so. The other player will understand, even if they’re frustrated (or presenting as frustrated) - they were going to win! You had to stop them! If you have it in your power to prevent their victory and don’t, then you’ll only serve to piss off the other players at the table, as well as potentially fall foul of collusion laws.
- Stir the pot where possible. As I said, you really don’t want to make enemies. It can make you finish third and fourth. However, what you do want to do is make other people enemies of each other. If they’re finished third and fourth, your chances of winning just got a lot greater! Don’t be afraid to make ‘helpful suggestions’ to people, especially if one of the other players thinks it’s a bad idea.
Example: at Gencon 2016’s Melee, in the first round one of my opponents asked another if he could get a meaningless unopposed power challenge through on her, in exchange for not doing any further challenges on her afterwards. She agreed, and he knelt out Asha and Balon. I pointed out to the challengee, who was playing Stark, that he was obviously sitting on Superior Claim, and with that plus Great Kraken he was getting three extra power from triggers, plus standing his Asha… so why not use Winterfell? The deal was to let it through unopposed, didn’t say anything about Winterfell… She did, which screwed up the Greyjoy player’s turn, made him annoyed at her, and let me challenge safe in the knowledge that Winterfell’s trigger had been spent. Win-win-win! - Be familiar with the rules on collusion. If you’re drawn on the same table as a friend or partner, the temptation is to form a team to finish first and second. It’s an entirely understandable compulsion, but unfortunately it’s unfair on your other opponents, and thus is against the rules. Collusion in Melee has a somewhat controversial past in A Game of Thrones, which I’m not going to go into now, but suffice it to say that each player should play as an individual. If you are given a completely arbitrary fifty-fifty choice to make between two players then it can get hazy, but I recommend trying to stay completely impartial. If someone accuses you of collusion, be open about what you’re doing and why - “sorry, but he doesn’t have any intrigue icons and I need the powerâ€. Consider tossing a coin or rolling a die if you need to pick someone arbitrarily to avoid accusations where possible. If you have to screw your friend and make sure neither of you win, then feel free to buy them a drink afterwards. Or, depending on your friendship circle’s social graces, pointing and laughing is also acceptable. It is worth pointing out that it is not collusion to manipulate scoring to get the other players at your table more points, though - it’s to your advantage to improve your strength of schedule, after all. Just make sure you can justify everything you do, because if you can’t justify it you shouldn’t be doing it.
- Don’t assume your opponents will also have read this. People can and invariably will make strange choices, especially if one of the other players is in their ear. Try to play in such a way that minimises the damage that can be done to your position by people making suboptimal plays. There’s no worse feeling than thinking you did everything right but were screwed by circumstances beyond your control - so if you can’t control the circumstances, focus on controlling how badly it affects you, and keep good humour throughout.
- When all is lost, gain whatever extra power you can by talking. You don’t need to win a certain number of Melee tables to make a cut, you need to attain a certain number of points. By far the best way to do it is to win a table (the maximum points for second being 7 while you get 15 for winning), but failing that, every power counts. Try to make sure you finish second if at all possible in this case, and with as much power as possible. Point out to opponents that it’s actually advantageous for them if you get more points, because it improves your strength of schedule. Doing just that got me in the cut at Stahleck last year.
- Have fun, obviously. I’ve written this with the mindset of a hyper-competitive “Jaime†player who only has the goal of winning in mind; at the end of the day though, you play for fun. Play fair, do your best, have fun and enjoy drinking with everyone after the tournament (and before, and during).
- Be nice to me. Hey, I helped you out by writing this article, didn’t I? I gave away trade secrets in here! Don’t you think that warrants showing a little bit of mercy and sending that power challenge elsewhere?? If you’re gonna Nightmares somebody, target the powergrab character owned by the person who didn’t offer a word of advice! Be a friend!
- Kennon, Ire, Ironswimsuit and 11 others like this
10 Comments
Great content and tips and I'm very glad to see more melee strategy. Two very missed opportunities, however:
1. You didn't number your tips. I'm way too lazy to count them myself to figure out which one is number 18.
2. You didn't at all utilize the Cersei, Brienne, QoT, and Chella melee archetypes! Not only is this a personal bummer, but I think there's something to your point that people can from time to time change their archetypal approach even mid game, and I think it would be beneficial to talk some about the circumstances and opportunities/drawbacks of doing so. IE, being able personally able to switch gears from Cersei to QoT if your turn 2 win is stymied or being wary of pounding that Brienne player so hard she forms a grudge and turns into a Chella.
1) There's no actual significance to which one's number 18
.
2) I thought about linking to your article, actually, because you explained it all better than I could. Ultimately it was a point I only ended up touching on briefly and the article was already overly-long (I went into the entire concept in more detail in my first draft but ended up cutting it down by over 2,000 words in the name of brevity), so I figured since you already covered it I could afford to let it slide somewhat.
I feel I'm inside the group people you describe in the "Go in with the right mindset." segment
1st attempt melee without no preparation was really a mess back in London XD Nice article though.
Kudos for the article
You should write somethign simular for the different joust styles as well 
Great article! Now all I need are people who want to play melee.
Joust and Melee are like Chess and Monopoly. You can do everything right in Monopoly, but if player B makes a bad trade with player C, you can be sitting there not being able to win because of an insurmountable lead Player C has through no action of your own.
14 Melee tips you gotta try, number 14 will make his toes curl!
great sub header btw
Err do not offend chess.
I think this is the point James was trying to make. That thinking like that is not correct. You need more skills in melee since you have to make those good trades. I would also not qualify joust like chess. Chess has way less luck involved. Melee i would say is the harder game to master at this point and maybe even a bit more balanced. It is harder to learn and so many times players who struggle with its complexities blame luck. If it was not skill based it would not be the same people in the cut each time.
It is so nice to read this article on Melee. Great work Wamma, you rock
.
Kennon, if I understood correctly you too have written something about melee, is it possible to have a link to your article? I'd love to read it too.
Melee in general is such a cool game, I so want it to get the love it deserves. If I should point to the most important point for me in what Wamma described, it would simply be the very first one. If you want to have the most competitive fun in melee, prepare your deck like you would for joust. Think about how it (the deck yes) will behave at a melee table and the various possible interactions. In my opinion, more than in joust, knowing how your deck plays out is key to having good games and ultimately winning them. Know what in can do in various situation, which direction to take depending on how the table is going etc. Ultimately, it's down to practice. And it is so worth it
.