2C1C- Episode 162

Should be corrected.

Working now.

I'd like to see an "emergency" FAQ update that restricts the plot. Sitting down against Martell Bloodthirst would be a lot less demoralizing if they have to choose between the River and Prince's Plans. 

I honestly think an errata that makes CtMF lose the River trait would work, too. No Flood Waters shenanigans, and other Rivers wouldn't trip it a second time. It could still add card advantage, but just one time, a lot like that new-ish Bara event.

That being said, plot cycling could still pose a problem--that's where the abuse gets to be nothing but NPE, especially with the new Arienne out of Bloodthirst. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's restricted. I just don't know if it will happen during Regionals. Surely before Gencon, though, right?

Why not bring off some of the other plots to put pressure on Rivers?  Search and Detain, Furies for sure.  Fear of Winter maybe?  It's bonkers though.

Honestly restricting it is better then removing river. I would still run it in some decks if it still had river if it loses the river trait i'd NEVER use it. I think the best solution is to maybe limit it to 2 or 3 cards. I don't like it counting as draw because not worth spot in lot of decks then I don't think we need to kill this card otherwise rivers go back to useless. I think ffg had this planned all a long because its the only river that makes everything click. It is very good but think people maybe slightly overreacting I don't know the best answer (maybe the limit to what reveal is okay) but I think restricting is to hard and removing river is a ban to the card. 

Its very predictable and only like one other river is sorta okay. Yes they are good in control decks but so is cards like first snow, march to the wall, and many others. Its great for aggro stark and greyjoy but they are all losing solid plots. So i think it needs a medium nerf because right now I think its only slightly to good. ----also rush is very good against rivers. 

Dude, just wait for the Targ Rush. Khal and The Mad King are coming.

Dude, I wish I could, but I'm getting antsy. I want to get started on it now!

Why not bring off some of the other plots to put pressure on Rivers?  Search and Detain, Furies for sure.  Fear of Winter maybe?  It's bonkers though.

Honestly that thought crossed my mind but then I realized it would doom us all.

Honestly restricting it is better then removing river. I would still run it in some decks if it still had river if it loses the river trait i'd NEVER use it. I think the best solution is to maybe limit it to 2 or 3 cards. I don't like it counting as draw because not worth spot in lot of decks then I don't think we need to kill this card otherwise rivers go back to useless. I think ffg had this planned all a long because its the only river that makes everything click. It is very good but think people maybe slightly overreacting I don't know the best answer (maybe the limit to what reveal is okay) but I think restricting is to hard and removing river is a ban to the card. 

 

Its very predictable and only like one other river is sorta okay. Yes they are good in control decks but so is cards like first snow, march to the wall, and many others. Its great for aggro stark and greyjoy but they are all losing solid plots. So i think it needs a medium nerf because right now I think its only slightly to good. ----also rush is very good against river.

Well I think right now the only realistic option is to restrict it. I agree that it drawing you those cards rather than revealing wouldn't make it worth it. If it drew then copied I could totally see that being worth it and maybe thats the way it should have been in the first place. Predictable yes but even if your opponent knows whats coming it really doesn't matter to you. You're still digging and getting all the answers you need and a handful of cards. Rush may be an answer to some decks running rivers but not the rivers running resets and plot cycling.

Yea I think your right in that restricting is the only realistic option but i just am really in the mood for not seeing the next big thing instantly restricted. I want them to find another option. It is just annoying that once an faq happens and cards people complained about get restricted just a brand new to powerful card gets complained about, idk if it is the design of the game or to many players of this game just play the weakly hotness and so it does good everywhere because everyone is playing it and it just gets worse and worse... 

What about changing the rule, so that draw is defined to include revealed cards put into hand (careful wording required: so Princes Plans would not be drawing etc)? That way cards don't need to be changed only the rule. Revealed wording would still be useful, as it is less powerful version of draw, by giving information to your opponent. Doing this would also take Vipers Bannerman and other Martell cards down a notch. Better than having half the Martell card pool on the restricted list.

Pretty sure that removing the River trait from it would just make the card worthless. Not literally worthless, but not nearly sufficient to make playing the majority of your plot deck as rivers worthwhile. And I feel like giving up guaranteed plot effects and for the most part good stats in exchange for more cards isn't a terrible notion, I just think its TOO efficient right now.

What about an errata that says you reveal and add X cards where X is the number of River plots in your used pile OTHER THAN CROSSING THE MUMMER'S FORD? Not a huge shift, but it decreases the card advantage of each of those subsequent triggers by 1, scaling it back slightly. Perhaps not enough?

The restricted list would be the other option I could get onboard with. With the card as is, I can see it being fair to have it restricted. Or freeing up some of the restricted plots to further encourage non-river/city builds. I think the Furies could definitely stand to be unrestricted now. There are a lot of plots with really great stats out there, as well as plot chains and other assorted ones with really strong effects. 5-7-1 is no longer an auto-include unless you need the plot trait as well. Search and Detain and Fear of Winter are both too strong to unrestrict though, in my opinion.

@Sokhar, I agree about the Furies. I think they've been where they could be unrestricted for awhile.

@Erocklawell, Some people do. I've been seeing it down here a bit again. The tough thing though, is that RBD only hits for a turn and your opponent still keeps the 4 best of those cards. Then next turn they're likely to be able to copy Crossing in one form or another and fill back up.

maybe make it prize 3 or 4 ?

Do you guys have a xanga account?

Hahaha, no. Should we?