2C1C- Episode 166

A - Great Spoiler

B - I disagree with your disagreement about the emergency FAQ. First of all, the 60% first turn value is from TTC and Roger's testing, described on BTW, and is 'solitaire' play (no opponent) - BUT they won the majority of their games on T2 or earlier. Once the deck is out, I'm sure people can/could tech against it, but is it really an experience (the 'No play experience') you want to see out in the game field? Game of Thrones has combos, even has some prominent 'combo' decks - but un-interactive combos are dangerous. Unlike Magic, the tools just aren't there to handle it: The resource curve doesn't delay the combo setup, the tutors are much more reliable, and we don't play best-of-three matches or have sideboards to specifically counter combos.

Sure, maybe I hate losing to Rush and that's my Negative Play Experience - but if I tech against rush, I tech against most (if not all) rush. But  *each* combo needs to be tech'ed against separately. If it doesn't interact with the Challenge phase or give people time to interact with it with their challenge-phase tools, I don't think it has a place in thrones.

I agree with Alex quite a bit.

I'm also getting ******* tired of the general label of "whiners" for people who think the combo is bad for the game.  Even the deck builder himself lobbied to eliminate the combo. 

I'm not going to reiterate what Alex said, but not once have I heard a compelling argument that counters the fact that once the(easy to setup) combo is in place, the opponent is just sitting there for 30 minutes watching the opponent slowly win.  The argument that there are ways to disrupt it are garbage.  That isn't the point.  You end up playing a game of "I hope I draw my counter just so I don't lose." because your game play decision making is completely taken out of your hands once the combo begins.

Now, maybe everyone who argues against eliminating the combo are just playing the devil's advocate, but I think getting rid of this type of game play interaction was important for this game to a majority of the community and that is more important than a black and white attitude that is generalizing THIS combo as ANY combo that can be countered through regular game play interaction.
 

Now, can we please ******* play this game like it was meant to be played and get over the fact that FFG finally had some balls to react instead of sit back and watch the competitive player base get frustrated and possibly compromise the remainder of the regional season going forward.

I think I tried to say as much while recording - i'll go back and listen and see what points came across.

oh, this is kyle. probably should've said that sooner.

p.s. hi guys - glad to finally be on here.

Also, someone bring an extra shirt for Sandy, if you're headed to the bar. And replace shots-for-plots with shots-for-plotphases.

Props and Slops: I'm also pretty sure Bruno's ****-pics came up on a previous episode... maybe even the last time you guys had him on? Also, on Orange is the New Black: Yeah, it's supposed to be a comedy. Dark humor, but I find it quite enjoyable, although it took me 3 episodes or so to warm up to it.

I look forward to the regional... someone will have the full stats for the Annals, right, Kennon?

That warship sounds so cool!

Alex--I'll try to get the store to collect the relevant stats. You want House, Agenda, Restricted, and placement, right?

I think Karma got in touch with Steven in order to get it all, but the ideal is for someone to fill out a sheet in the Annals (saves me trouble). H/A/R placement before cut is "all" (I know!) I need.

The topic of Bruno-member pictures did indeed come up before.

Also yeah, there's "you all happen to take the opinion that the Emergency FAQ was unnecessary" and then there's "nobody even addressing the legitimate grievances with the combo and painting everyone who wanted (and is grateful for) the emergency FAQ as 'whiners'". I love you guys and listen every week, but at the risk of going into "internet hysteria" mode the manner in which you tackled the Emergency FAQ was borderline-irresponsible in how one-sided the discussion was. Obviously it's your podcast and you can say what you want, there's no need to pander to me or anyone else, but likewise it's my right to give disapproving feedback! Keep up the mostly good work - I really enjoyed the rest of the 'cast, aside from being reminded that I went all the way to New York to get punched by Aaron.

In fact, this might be going off-topic a bit for feedback in the comments section, but would any of you be interested in co-writing a Hand's Judgement article with me on the FAQ? Because I feel pretty strongly that it was required, so it'd be nice to be able to put those thoughts across in a controlled bipartisan setting .

So I'm not sure how the final cut came out but I was most certainly in favor of this FAQ. Though I still think the underlying problem is with the characters (jojen) I know the events were the meat of the matter. Sorry if I made my stance unclear during the show. I am always in it for the casual player and I was running on fumes during the recording of this episode due to working on a different project all day that day next time I'll voice my opinion a bit louder.

I don't think you made your stance unclear Darryl, but either you barely said anything for that section or it got cut . It opened with Aaron sarcastically thanking the whiners for getting Prince's Plans nerfed when you could stop it with 4 different things (half of which didn't stop it) and Kyle saying Aaron was being the voice of reason and shouldn't apply so much logic, then was followed with Will speculating that the 60% turn one win figure was "internet hyperbole" rather than the stone-cold fact stated by the guy who made and won with the deck.

Like I said before though I don't want to sound like I'm ragging on the 'cast as a whole, because I really enjoyed the Slaying/Painted sections (the MarTatheon discussion in particular was really informative and helpful for newer players I think), the spoiler was really cool and the props/slops made me laugh when I was stuck in traffic. It was just that one section that left a sour taste on m'tongue.

I'll relisten this evening, and to disclaim some, we went WAY off topic during that section, and the debate kinda came up sporadically (sp???). anyways, Will's alcohol problem seems to be the real issue here. friends don't let friend drink and edit.

After listening to Beyond the Wall, didn't that guy say that his 60% turn one win figure was just in test draws at home with no opponent? That's quite a bit different from actual game play records.

Yup, that's what I said in my comment above. However, he also mentioned how often he won by or before turn 2...

Edit: Double-checked: In the tournament, he won t1 a third of the time... the line about T2 wasn't in the final cut from the interview, so I'll have to double check that one at home. It's worth noting that he focused a lot on not rushing; only start the combo when you're 100% sure you're going to finish it, since he's really in no hurry against most decks.

I also want to reiterate that I really enjoy the show and you guys do a great job.  I apologize if my post came across as brash and negative.  It wasn't my intention to portray it in such a way, but I I think James hit the nail on the head as to what kind of got me going.  Sorry about that!

It was indeed his win ratio playing solitaire, but honestly the difference is marginal at best even with an opponent there. I'd take a guess that the win ratio would still be over 50%, albeit I'll fully admit that's speculation.

To be clear, I don't think it's "borderline irresponsible" to present a set of views I disagree with without the counter-arguments, nor do I feel you owe it to be less skewed. You're entitled to your opinions and heck, this has the advantage of sparking more discussion.

I didn't mean to post as a criticism - I just posted to state how wrong I thought you were . That's no different from last week's Aaron stating Lanni didn't have a gold advantage, or your mistaken opinions on Counterplot! More people should have called me out for my underestimation of Crossing the Mummer's Ford...

Normally I like Aaron's viewpoint, but I really can't agree with him on this point. There are ways to tech against the Jojen combo, but should you have to? The lack of interactivity, the way it can dominate on the first turn... as Darryl pointed out, I don't think it's apart of the 'regular game'.

let's just keep talking about how wrong aaron is, also known as vindicating most of my opinions

More people should have called me out for my underestimation of Crossing the Mummer's Ford...

Like i did not enough?

It looks like our latest episode went over like a lead zepplin, partly due to editing errors on my part that probably skewed the conversation more than I meant to. I apologize for the offense, and a re-edit will be up again later tonight.

In the mean time- preview card is up!

I enjoyed the episode.

I thought the episode was on the usual level of coolness, but I can't believe I am saying this but it did need more Will. Seems like you took a back seat on this one. Or is that just me?