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Crimson and Gold - Matchups

Small Council Crimson and Gold scantrell24

With an FAQ update and two significant chapter packs released in quick succession, we’ve seen a major shakeup of the metagame. I expect two non-Lanni archetypes will quickly earn Tier 1 status and threaten Lannister’s chances at Worlds and Stahleck. Let’s discuss how to counter and defeat them.

Against Targ Burn

With Manning the City Walls (CD) restricted, Targ Burn doesn't fear high strength armies storming the battlefield any longer; for the most part, they only have to contend with puny 3 strength dudes. Furthermore, the un-restriction of Pentoshi Manor (AHM) gives Targ access to repeatable strength reduction. Targ KotHH decks use their agenda’s income bonus to offset the Manor’s out-of-house penalty, and many of their other affects require influence, not gold, anyways. It can also be cheated into play with Supported by the Smith (AJE). Finally, if Aegon's Hill (TTotH) hits the table, opponents can’t hold back their best characters until the Burn runs out of steam.

So what can we do? Honestly, not much has changed between Lanni and Targ since this time last year. Varys (SaS), Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) and A House Divided (WLL) nail problematic Allies like Pyat Pree (QoD) and Magister Illyrio (VM), but beware discard pile recursion like Recruitment (VD) and Ambush from the Plains (QoD).

The The Iron Throne (LotR) handles King's Landing Assassin (SaS), Dragon Thief (AE), Dragon Knight (TBC), Young Griff (VD) and Company of the Cat (THoBaW). I’m tempted to run two copies of the Throne because it’s that important.

Late in the game there should be a good character for Qyburn (SaS) to target, like Ser Jorah Mormont (WLL) or Company of the Cat (THoBaW). If KotHH decks run Bay of Ice (KotS) it could backfire during our Cersei's Scheme (TPoL), City of Lies (CoS), or On My Oath turns, but otherwise they’re probably drawing an extra card. Their Pentoshi Manor strips renown and stealth from Lanni’s usual closer, Tyrion Lannister (CoS), so I expect many games will last 7+ rounds and go to time. Kingdom of Shadows (KotS) could backfire by standing their Young Griff (VD), and against Dragonpit decks might have the new shadows version of Ser Jorah Mormont. Don’t forget that Alchemist's Guild Hall (TBoBB) can kneel locations. Against Targ you’ll frequently want to target something like Meereen Tourney Grounds (ODG) or even their influence locations, rather than a character. Finally, be wary of Dragon Thief or Meereenese Brothel (BtW) taking out Pyromancer's Cache (TWot5K). Most Lanni decks will run the Cache because there’s simply no better option, but it’s definitely a fragile card against Targ.

As far as general strategy goes, Lanni definitely needs to win intrigue challenges ASAP because a Burn deck thrives when it has options in hand during the challenges phase. Furthermore, hard location control like Condemned by the Council (AToT) will either slow down their card advantage (Meraxes (TBC)) or wreck their economy.

Against Stark Murder

Unfortunately, what works against Targ is often nearly useless against Stark, and vice versa. For example, Paper Shield (QoD) stops No Quarter (TBC) and The Price of War (KotS), but can’t touch Incinerate (VM) or The Hatchlings' Feast (ASitD). Kneel effects easily neutralize threats like Northern Cavalry Flank (SA) and Brienne of Tarth (PotS), but falter against characters ambushed into play after the marshalling phase. If Lanni runs Tunnels of the Red Keep (CoS) to combat burn, he’ll have to watch out for recent Stark additions like Northland Keep (TBG) and Breaching the Wall (TBG). Finally, Stark also packs answers to Cache; Meera Reed (TftH) and Frozen Solid (LoW) can both blank it, making the Cache fall off because it’s now illegally attached to a location.

Starks only runs a few characters worthy of Enslaved (THoBaW), such as Maester Vyman (TWoW), Old Nan (BoRF), and Ser Jorah Mormont (PotS). Hodor (Core) unfortunately cannot take attachments, but whatever you do “borrow” will be immune to Bear Island (AE). I wouldn’t run more than a single copy of Enslaved right now.

Timing Valar Morghulis (Core) properly against Stark Aggro is crucial. Winning intrigues and then resetting the board is usually a sound strategy against Stark, but Outwit (TIoR) cancels Valar outright, The Art of Seduction (LotR) pins you to it for an extra turn, and Call of the Three-Eyed Crow (AJE) gives Stark access to a quasi-save.

Conclusion

The boards have grown quiet lately with everyone honing their secret tech for Worlds. I’m still testing a dozen different decks and trying to figure out this hot mess. Best of luck to everyone else who’s in the same boat!

If you have local tournament results to share, or any brilliant ideas to combat the Targ / Stark murder-fest, I’d love to hear them. Thanks for reading!
  • bigfomlof and MotoBuzzsawMF like this


13 Comments

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LorasTyrell
Oct 30 2013 09:45 AM
The Hand's Judgement instead of paper Shield can handle both matchups well and gold is not a problem in Lannister decks. Strongly recommended!
    • Lampros likes this
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MotoBuzzsawMF
Oct 30 2013 10:35 AM
Great article.
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CrowsB4Hoes
Oct 30 2013 12:03 PM
Nice article m8. I also wanted to add that,as a Tunnels player, the autoinclude of Kings Law in GJ Choke is a pain in the ass if he gets a head start. Till now my stats against this matchup are not that good and definetely worse than against stark murder ( with a guild hall out i had no problems keeping the wolves in check till now )
I think to be competitive in a tourney where you'll face strong Targ, Martell, and Stark builds, I'm not sure how you can refuse to run some NIghtmares, Condemned by the Council, and The Hand's Judgement.

In my experience failing to run these events means that particular match-ups are almost a no-win scenario.
The worst thing about this meta is that after doing all that to best targ, stark, and gj, you'll face a super viper or a super stannis and lose xD
    • SirDragonBane, JCWamma, Flint and 3 others like this
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TaranWanderer
Oct 30 2013 03:14 PM
Nice article. I don't think Qyburn works on Company of the Cat, though?
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scantrell24
Oct 30 2013 03:40 PM

Nice article. I don't think Qyburn works on Company of the Cat, though?


Ah, good catch. It's an army. Bah.

The Hand's Judgement instead of paper Shield can handle both matchups well and gold is not a problem in Lannister decks. Strongly recommended!


My Lanni decks don't really have any advantage in the gold department over any other House. I don't run All the Gold in Casterly Rock, or Arbor Guardsman. I'm honestly not sure where the notion comes from that Lanni can easily afford Hand's Judgement.
    • Ire and CrowsB4Hoes like this
Hi !

Just to add my piece of experience. As a Lanni no-agenda player (so no Tunnels to boost STR), the best answers to Targ burn are Brigands obviously (easily affordable even without Manning), Widow's Wail and Writ Small to boost STR. And obviously the Throne in x2. Arys and Varys never leave my decks, neither does King Joff's Guard. Still it's really tough because Threat of the North often acts like a one-sided reset... But vs Targ the Pentoshi Manor helps a lot. Their Dragonpit decks use a lot of 2 STR-chars that can be shut down by a single Manor, and on a Threat turn he can almost do nothing either.

And vs Stark I think it's way less difficult. 2 plots : Cersei's Scheme and Shadows and Spiders ; 2 events : Only Game that Matters and Terminal Schemes. The classic solutions like Wrong Dwarf and Pentoshi Manor are good too (and Kevan agenda, Margaery... I really love these "kneeling during challenges" cards). And you have more draw than most Starks. It's often enough, even if Meera in winter decks is a huge pain in the ass, and so is Bran Stark CS with City plots (again, Throne helps here, or Enslaved).

One last thing, personnaly I'm running Enslaved x2 just because it completely wrecks Greyjoy and helps a lot vs all kinds of Martell and other Lannisters. And overall, stealing a Carrion bird is sometimes well enough to get rid of the opponent's season, and thus leading to the win ;)

The worst thing about this meta is that after doing all that to best targ, stark, and gj, you'll face a super viper or a super stannis and lose xD


I think in this meta it's more important to be aggressive than reactive. SInce you can't tech against everything, build a deck that your opponents must respond to. For Lannister, this means more things like Writ Small and less things like Distraction. More challenge-phase answers and less marshalling phase ones (ie Scantrell's good advice to consider removing or reducing Enslaved and perhaps adding another Iron Throne or even a Tourney Grounds).

Also, how about revisiting the Fleet from the Arbor? The deadly is super nice and can push through INT challenges at will....maybe I need to work on something in this vein ;)
    • OrangeDragon, SirDragonBane and Lampros like this
I usually run three enslaves I can't imagine using only one it works amazing against every deck but targ I don't care if takes a good character it is a two character swing and saves you a mil claim I think it is maybe best attachment in game it never disappoints me. Besides setup
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LorasTyrell
Oct 30 2013 06:54 PM

Ah, good catch. It's an army. Bah.



My Lanni decks don't really have any advantage in the gold department over any other House. I don't run All the Gold in Casterly Rock, or Arbor Guardsman. I'm honestly not sure where the notion comes from that Lanni can easily afford Hand's Judgement.

Well at least Lanni weenies provide gold that other houses can't rely on, that's a start. Since I can afford hand's Judgement in my Martell builds, I suppose it would be even easier in Lannisters, but I might be wrong...

I think in this meta it's more important to be aggressive than reactive. SInce you can't tech against everything, build a deck that your opponents must respond to. For Lannister, this means more things like Writ Small and less things like Distraction. More challenge-phase answers and less marshalling phase ones (ie Scantrell's good advice to consider removing or reducing Enslaved and perhaps adding another Iron Throne or even a Tourney Grounds).

Also, how about revisiting the Fleet from the Arbor? The deadly is super nice and can push through INT challenges at will....maybe I need to work on something in this vein ;)


My thoughts exactly...reason why i was joking. I do play baratheon and expect people to meta against me and i don't spend cards to toolbox, just to protect my cards or effects. (nightmares, papershield etc)
    • WWDrakey and OKTarg like this
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accountdeleted
Oct 31 2013 06:45 AM
@Tygrou: I'm not doing this very often, so brace yourself!





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