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Fire and Blood - For Old Time's Sake

Small Council Fire and Blood OKTarg

Hello there again intrepid readers! It's been far to long since a Targ article has graced our dear front page, and though I'm not sorry to have retired, it is great to get back in the saddle once more to bloviate and pontificate about things that I have little to no knowledge of. Here ahead of worlds, I thought it would be fun to do a quick "stock report" style look at certain favorite Targaryen cards to see if you should be adding the card to your decks, cutting the card from your decks, or "holding" to see what the market holds. These decisions will be based on my views of the meta and of course your mileage may vary or triple your money back. So, without further ado, let's look at those cards whose stock is rising:

STOCK RISING

DAARIO NAHARIS

I love this guy. He has the only "Knight hate" effect in the game, which means you can hit characters opponents thought might be safe otherwise. The downside on him is strong, since if your opponent doesn't play a Knight or a Traitor he sits in your hand. This has meant that he has generally been cut from most Targ decks outside those that use trait manipulation. But this is a new day--the era of the Kingsguard! I expect more than half of decks at worlds to at least splash a Kingsguard or three, so Daario will have more friends to discard and more opponents' lives to ruin! A tricon with melee isn't to be sneezed at either. Consider adding Daario to most of your Targ decks for worlds.

SORROWFUL MAN

Since I expect Shadows to be stronger than in the past (in terms of representation if not actual strength), why not take a look at this guy to zap cards who hop out during the challenge phase. In the past, he's been a great option to kill Bannermen or Maesters put into play with their respective plots, but a heavier Shadow presence means that he will have a wider use. Can you imagine popping Meera during challenges? Oh wow I am getting excited just thinking about it....or the new Jaime? Amazing.....and a deadly on the power icon never hurt anyone either!

AEGON'S HILL

So you probably already have this in your decks. If you don't, just add it. Please. And if you get it on setup, keep the hand. Why did they take it off of the restricted list? I have no idea, but let's make hay while the sun shines.

AMBUSH FROM THE PLAINS/TO BE A DRAGON

The free recursion cards are probably already options for Targ players, but I've really been impressed with King's Landing Coup and the types of openings that can be done with that card. We don't lack for great 3-cost options or come-into-play effects (like Daario!) so grabbing whatever type of card you need when you need it can be so critical. I feel like the meta has shifted towards higher initiative plots anyway, and if you are leaning that direction why not take advantage with Ambush.

I even feel like there is something there with Street Waifs, Arys Oakheart, and the standing tech in Targ to make a sort of poor man's house of pain. You'll really miss the Lances, but don't overlook what options we still have!

MAGISTER ILLYRIO

I love this guy! He's the nemesis of the Carrion Bird! I also think with the hopping in and out of shadows that many decks will be doing that your opponents will be giving you a free Illyrio trigger or two every turn. And maybe this is going too far, but if they replace old Arys with the new one, we might not see as much Ally hate running around (though certainly a shadowy deck will pack Varys!)

STOCK FALLING

THE DRAGONPIT

Man, I love this card. It's so good. But now more than ever before (or perhaps since the KL cycle was new) there is more of a risk that you'll end up with fewer shadows cards than your opponent. Paying 3 gold for nothing isn't so good. Yeah, the effect is amazing, but do you really want to risk a Tunnels or Bara Shadows or even a deck randomly splashing Kingsguard turning off your whole lynchpin? I don't, so I wouldn't play Dragonpit right now.

DRAGON DECKS

Too bad. Perhaps the only thing I liked about the TLV meta was the fighting chance they gave Dragons. As it is, the game has shifted back away from Ubercharacters and these guys remain too expensive and too difficult to draw properly to be a successful tournament archetype. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I don't think I am. Now in melee, perhaps it is a different story.....

SPLASHING SUMMER

How many Song of Ice decks will be at worlds? Answer: nobody has a clue. And that's why I'd stay away from summer without the agenda. It seems that most of Targ's summer-based cards REQUIRE summer to even work (think Field of Fire, Summer Encampment, etc.) rather than just getting better if it is summer (like Dragon Knight). Risking a loss of efficiency in a card is one thing, but risking a suite of dead cards entirely another. If you want summer, play the agenda. If you don't want the agenda, play another deck.

STOCK HOLDING

THE MAESTER'S PATH

I have no idea where Maesters are. They are so hard to pilot against a Winter deck featuring Meera, but the meta is so open that I'm not sure. I think the toolbox nature and minimal auto-loss matchups for Maesters makes it a great choice, but the proliferation of Nightmares makes it a bit risky as well.

I think Rusted-style maesters are in play still since I haven't seen tons of Ghaston Grey lately, but a more general burn maesters or control maesters with things like trait manipulation might work as well. I just don't know; what was once the hotness has not been forgotten. Can it make a comeback?

RALLY CRY

It was the best of plots; it was the worst of plots. I go around and around on it, finally deciding that it is my 8th choice for a variety of plot decks. Great against House of Dreams (but who runs that anymore) and solid against a lot of other things such as the Red Viper or a variety of annoying locations, you'll never be sad to pack Rally Cry. Unless, that is you actually have more command than your opponent....in which case you won't want this at all. How can you even really know?

FULL ON BURN DECKS

Burn is strong. Burn is to be feared. Yes, I agree. But also there are some things that are hard to burn. Like armies. And the Viper. There is recursion from the prayers, etc. No longer can Targ fill dead piles with impunity; there are answers even after the fact now. Can you really trust burn to carry you through the whole field? Especially when it is one of the top decks that people tech against? I just do not know. Why not try it out and let me know how it goes?

So I hope you enjoyed this quick analysis of some Targaryen cards heading into worlds. We'll keep trying to make Fire and Blood a more regular thing! Thanks, as always, for reading!
  • bigfomlof and Ire like this


14 Comments

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emptyrepublic
Nov 06 2013 07:41 AM
Not quite true about Daario having the only Knight hate there's...The Hound (AToT)

He'll be brilliant in a Kingsguard world. Just need to find a reliable way to jump him in and out of play. Ambush from the Plains is a real good one.
    • VonWibble and Lampros like this
Good catch on the Hound. Thanks.

I also wasn't as clear as I wanted to be about To be a Dragon....I mean that Targ has great 3 cost options to get back from the dead pile with this ability, including several with sweet come-into-play effects .I also think Ambush from the Plains is underused as a recursion tool, especially with those same come-into-play effects!
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LorasTyrell
Nov 06 2013 07:25 PM
Call me crazy, but I think HoD Dragonpit is one of the best builds out there at the moment. Pure kingsguard decks are not a thing (yet?), rather you can see many people splashing a few of them into the deck, mostly Jaime and Preston for repeated draw... If you put around 18-20 shadows in your HoD Dragonpit you are almost sure you are going to have more than your opponent, unless you are facing CoS agenda (who plays it?), another Dragonpit or Bara Assahi: in that case I'll probably go for Aegon's Hill for your HoD choice (the deck is so versatile) and will be fine anyways.

I'd say Dragonpit's stock is holding :)

Call me crazy, but I think HoD Dragonpit is one of the best builds out there at the moment. Pure kingsguard decks are not a thing (yet?), rather you can see many people splashing a few of them into the deck, mostly Jaime and Preston for repeated draw... If you put around 18-20 shadows in your HoD Dragonpit you are almost sure you are going to have more than your opponent, unless you are facing CoS agenda (who plays it?), another Dragonpit or Bara Assahi: in that case I'll probably go for Aegon's Hill for your HoD choice (the deck is so versatile) and will be fine anyways.

I'd say Dragonpit's stock is holding :)


I always have to note to comments like these, that unless you are doing the starting the game as the corerules state (I rarely see it happens) with HoD you shouldn't be changing your HoD location to something else. The game should always be started with deciding a first player who also reveals his/her house and agenda before the other player does. So if the HoD player is first he has no idea what his opponent is playing when he has to search for the location.
I just feel that it is very cheap from a HoD player to skips the starting the game part and then go for counter location pick.

Not to say anyone here does it, but I think the starting the game lacks awareness and the fact that players are skipping it is giving HoD players a big advantage.
    • LorasTyrell likes this
On the Aegon's Hill / Dragonpit issue: When the HoD entered the environment, I insisted that the Hill was the definite card for it and not the Dragonpit. When the Hill hit the RL, the Pit was a natural substitute and it went great, but now, with the Hill's triumphant return, it's time once again to regain its place as the prominent accompaniment for that Agenda. The Pit might be a better choice vs. fast Aggro decks with weenies sweeping the board, such as the Stark Winter or the Lanni PbtT, but, really, are the above THAT tough for Burn to face? Don't think so - the Lanni build especially is a rather easy match-up. In all other instances (and there are builds there that may cause problems to the Burn archetype), the Hill is better. Not to mention that it's a location that is absolutely crucial to have in play asap. The HoD allows that. The Dragonpit can always enter play later. A HoD deck with a Hill as the protected location and two copies of the Pit is the ideal combination, I believe.

I always have to note to comments like these, that unless you are doing the starting the game as the corerules state (I rarely see it happens) with HoD you shouldn't be changing your HoD location to something else. The game should always be started with deciding a first player who also reveals his/her house and agenda before the other player does. So if the HoD player is first he has no idea what his opponent is playing when he has to search for the location.
I just feel that it is very cheap from a HoD player to skips the starting the game part and then go for counter location pick.

Not to say anyone here does it, but I think the starting the game lacks awareness and the fact that players are skipping it is giving HoD players a big advantage.


I completely agree and even if I am not running a HoD deck I think I am going to start every game the right way and make opponent start the game right way but will have to reread those rules though who ever wins the initial coin flip or whatever you do picks who is first correct?

I completely agree and even if I am not running a HoD deck I think I am going to start every game the right way and make opponent start the game right way but will have to reread those rules though who ever wins the initial coin flip or whatever you do picks who is first correct?


The player randomly chosen is the first player so no choosing here.
Agree on the HoD card of choice being Aegon's Hill. The earlier it's in play the better, and getting to both see their hand and eliminate a character is vastly more powerful early on when you have less info about what they might be holding and when they likely haven't had a chance to play every good character. Even in burn I think the ability to prevent them from holding back is more important than improved burn (even ignoring the shadows requirements). I can't believe that card came off the list.

The player randomly chosen is the first player so no choosing here.


Didn't you guys do a Quill and Tankard about this issue a while ago? It was pretty helpful as I recall....

Didn't you guys do a Quill and Tankard about this issue a while ago? It was pretty helpful as I recall....


Rings a bell...
Dragons in Melee can be brutal. I have made it a goal to construct a dragon deck that is nearly unbeatable in melee. I went 9-1 during a 10 week league in my meta. I am now trying to tailor it better for joust. Dragons scare people and I like it. I would love to see a dragon deck piloted for a win at worlds.
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accountdeleted
Nov 07 2013 12:15 AM

I am now trying to tailor it better for joust. [...] I would love to see a dragon deck piloted for a win at worlds.


so yeah
I think the chance of having more command than the opponent for seven rounds is very small, regardless of the type of deck. If that happens, I think you are in very good shape and you won't mind discarding a location at 7th round. So rally cry for the win!
    • accountdeleted and OKTarg like this
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CobraBubbles
Nov 07 2013 01:13 PM
On the Dragons issue, the most successful decks I've seen with Dragons have been atypical, like KotHH jumping Dragons and Dragon-Maesters. I also like the idea of Dragon-Summer-Burn out of Song of Fire, with a good bit of influence and Ambush to make it a bit like the KotHH jumper build, but also with the added bonuses of being able to use Field of Fire (QoD) to maximum effect and of bouncing comes-into-play effects like Daario Naharis (WLL) and Dragon Knight (TBC) with Summer Encampment (SA). I mocked one up the other day and it won it's first game pretty convincingly but not gotten round to testing it any more since.