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AGoT Core Set Review: Martell


Our staff has put together a first blush analysis of the newly released Game of Thrones LCG 2nd Edition Core Set. We’ve used a one through five scale; five being the best possible score. The cards are listed in numeric order. Let us know in the comments how you feel about the Martell cards from the Core set, and we’ll be back shortly with further reviews.

Here’s a link to the relevant preview article from FFG, where you can read the designer Nate French’s thoughts behind the faction.

With 11 reviewers this time, individual card scores are out of 55 possible points. The Martell non-reducer/economy cards combined to earn 70% (656 out of 935 possible points). By comparison, in previous reviews the scores were: 70% for Stark, 76% for Lannister, 76% for the Night’s Watch, 72% for Baratheon, 75% for Targaryen, and 79% for Greyjoy.

Now onto the cards!

Areo Hotah (47 Total Points)(85%)

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emptyrepublic - 5 out of 5
What intrigues me the most about this Areo is the ability to muck with challenges that you aren’t participating in in melee. As the support mechanic no longer exists as it did in first edition this is a good way to help prevent a win that you might not otherwise be able to stop. Ideal for Arianne. Minor quibble is holding the gold for the ambush will be a telegraph.

Ire & WWDrakey - 4 out of 5
We do what JC was only tempted to. While Areo is definitely a good card, a single-minded big military beatstick is not immediately optimal for many Martell decks, and the ability is definitely a tough one to use without Arianne.

Istaril - 4 out of 5
If only he weren’t loyal - boy would my Tyrell highgarden deck be happy. 3 for 5 monocon is good enough to justify his deck space, but that ability is potent - putting a body in play *and* getting that surprise effect - and completely negating a challenge on a Jousting Contest turn - or several on a Game of Thrones turn. Obviously best with Arianne, but this level of efficiency warrants acknowledgment - the card is solid, versatile, and one you’ll never be unhappy to draw, but to truly make him exceptional you need to build for it, leaving him at a 4.

JCWamma - 5 out of 5
I was tempted to put him at a 4, because unless you have Arianne on the table the reaction really isn't that easy to trigger - 5 gold is a lot to save and telegraphs the move a lot - but his secondary use as a 3-for-5 pile of efficiency pushes him over the top for me. Awesome card.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
At its worse you get a 3 cost character with 5 strength which is greatly above the curve. Ambush ability is also very strong being able to win a challenge that you were otherwise going to lose and then having a big body for a military challenge.

Oktarg: 4 out of 5
If in the show they had sent Tyrion to Dorne instead of Jaime, I could see this a bit better. Amazing with arianne, too expensive otherwise. (But good!)

rave - 4 out of 5
On par for the cost, though gains a point because of the challenge disruption he causes. Nice way to stall via Game of Thrones. Also note that he doesn’t trigger off of being played because of Ambush, but from entering play period during a challenge. Areo is strong in this state of the game, and for the future, definitely worth watching.

scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Areo’s versatility is remarkable. He’s like an event and character combined when ambushed, but still passable when marshalled normally. It’s a shame Fealty doesn’t reduce ambush costs because Areo’s can be tough to swallow. He's 1x in all Martell decks for a long time.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
3 cost for 5 strength is good, monocon or not. A 2 cost event that removes any character from a challenge is good too. Put the 2 together and you have a very solid card.

Siroma - 4 out of 5
3 for 5 is good, but the ambush price is a little bit high.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
That effect is so good because he doesn’t need to participate in the challenge to trigger. But realistically 90% of the time he’s only usable with Arianne Martell so that stops him from being a 5. The ambush cost is prohibitive outside a deck with a gold creator like Tyrion Lannister in it, but it’s good to see the old Martell tricks are alive and well.

Arianne Martell (53 Total Points)(96%)

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emptyrepublic - 5 out of 5
Lots of goodness here. The action is not phase limited. 5 gold or less covers a lot of characters (note that it’s not limited to Martell characters). She doesn’t have to be standing or kneeling so you can use her in a challenge and activate the ability. This will be another enduring card.

Ire & WWDrakey - 5 out of 5
A deceptively strong card that will only become better as the cardpool evolves.

Istaril - 5 out of 5
Action advantage (use her, then bring in a standing character). Surprise dupes (bring in her own dupe). Economy advantage (use her to bring in a character you couldn’t reduce with your martell/noble cause reducers). Dodge a wildfire (or valar?). So much versatility, so many tricks, such a nice package.

JCWamma - 5 out of 5
Along with Tyrion and Catelyn, one of my three strongest characters in the core. This effect may look innocent at first glance, but do not underestimate the sheer power and utility it offers, both now and in the future.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
Challenge with Arianne then putting into play any character. This is one of the strongest cards in the whole card pool. There is just too many uses for this card I’d take up to much room typing it all.

Oktarg: 5 out of 5
One of my favorite core cards. Fits my style down to a T.

rave - 5 out of 5
Wow, the potential is pretty limitless with this. Kind of like a Ghaston Grey lite? Canned combo with Aero Hotah is nice. Seems pretty hard to pin down and destroy. I have a feeling we’re going to be seeing a lot of Arianne.

scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Arianne can be expensive to maintain as she bounces back and forth, much like in 1st edition decks that used the previous version of Ghaston Grey. But the flexibility she offers during the challenges phase - often allowing you to win a challenge your opponent couldn’t anticipate - is worth the price.

VonWibble - 5 out of 5
Arianne gives you a lot of options every turn. As long as the character you put in costs close to 5 she is effectively giving you a free challenge every turn, minimum. Even if you only go for a 3 coster it seems well worth it. Watch out for Heads on Spikes, she will be the card the opponent wants to hit with this.

Siroma - 4 out of 5
At first look, she’s nuts, but all she really does is really a pseudo stand ability that will cost you between 1-3 gold on a character that’s probably subpar to what you have on the board. Great in Banner out of bara and she can land you some surprise icons, but I’m not sure she’s all the rage everyone makes her out to be. However, she’s is likely to only get stronger as the game progresses and more targets become valid. Watching the curve is also important, but since Martell plays for the long game, Arianne will see a fair share of triggers.

cockbongo - 5 out of 5
Sexy and versatile, Arianne is going to be in every Martell deck forever more as the card pool grows. Reuse your own attachments on her when she gets bounced, use her first then replace her with a decent MIL icon - and that 5 cost is perfectly balanced. Love it.

Doran Martell (35 Total Points)(64%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
A card for the future. In the near term play him for the insight and by happy when you get a bonus. Until the card pool fleshes out in upcoming expansion cycles he’s going to be a bit weak, but there’s no reason not to expect his value to go up.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
How to rate Doran? He definitely plays the Long Game (both with his ability and with how he will evolve in the cardpool), but whether that will pan out is yet unknown…

Istaril - 3 out of 5
A bit of an unknown. The insight is a known quantity, and necessary (Martell only has the greenblood traders for draw), so Doran should make his way into your deck - but the boost only to the Viper, Edric and Arianne just isn’t quite enough - although it’s extremely satisfying against burn. If the pool of lords/ladies grows (it will) and those cards have effects where their str matters (will they?) he could rise to being stellar, but as it is, he’s mostly just a necessary inclusion for the Insight.

JCWamma - 3 out of 5
Insight is nice, nay, important; the other part of the effect will live and die by the Lords and Ladies Martell has. Currently it's only Arianne, Edric and the Viper, only the latter of whom really strongly benefits from the effect, but in the future Doran will improve. Long-term the effect is nice but not spectacular, I think.

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
Insight is maybe the best keyword getting to draw a card as well as giving a great deal of your characters increase strength keeps getting better and better throughout the game (well until turn 7) I really like this Doran and think will prove useful.

Oktarg: 2 out of 5
I really wanted to do more because of the insight, but I have to face it: he kind of sucks.

rave - 4 out of 5
The amazing Insight keyword vs 6 gold.. there aren’t enough Martell Lords/Ladies yet(?) for his ability to really shine. It’s a shame he doesn’t work on himself.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
The Martell faction lacks a draw location, so Doran’s Insight keyword makes him an essential inclusion (for now). Marshalling a 6 gold character that provides so little board presence is kind of like eating your vegetables… until turn 5 or 6. Hopefully by then you’re checking out the dessert menu.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
He may be blank early game and on plot 7, but on other turns he’s fine. Even if you are only giving 1 lord the bonus he’s still efficient for his cost by the time you have 2 plots in the used pile. Throw in Insight and you have a character worth taking. I’m not giving 5 because there aren’t enough Martell Lords yet but I think he could easily be a staple long term.

Siroma - 3 out of 5
Insight is a great keyword and he will really supercharge characters like the red viper on the later turns. Most martell decks will be aiming for the long game, and there are sure to be more lords and ladies in the future. With just TRV, Arianne and Edric right now though, his ability just ain’t as good.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
Shame that the big loyal Martell character is a bit weak out of the core set, but the Insight is vital for a non-banner deck. The whole “playing the long game” theme for Martell is slightly weakened when its most effective card draw comes on a character who is inefficient over the first couple of rounds, but he’ll come into his own eventually.

Edric Dayne (34 Total Points)(62%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
He falls just short of a 4 because the ability costs money. Nonetheless, he’s an “on demand” characters to pull into challenges you need to push through or know you need to defend. He can maximize the use of Dawn, but that’s not enough to bump him up more.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
Oh Edric, how cute you are.

Istaril - 3 out of 5
Stealth, and… umm, shall I borrow JC’s phrase again? “If you squint” he’s a tricon. This actually makes him very versatile, and surprisingly fun to use - but not quite as efficient as you might want from his cost slot. Still, I like him a lot (more than his rating might suggest), and he creates interesting decision points for both players.

JCWamma - 3 out of 5
Cheap stealth on an icon of my choice? What's not to like? Oh, right, the gold cost. He's very "ok".

mnBroncos - 3 out of 5
Like other characters with a gold cost ability that is less of a downside in 2.0 where you also can threaten events. However, this guy will end up being costly if he is in play long time. Dayne and Lord is good traits though as well as stealth. Strong character for 2 slot a close 4.

Oktarg: 2 out of 5
I feel like Edric is my spendthrift nephew, always needing money.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
He gets the job done nicely, if you can pay the toll.

rave - 4 out of 5
Wow, Edric is strong! Tri-con stealth at a cheap price point is nice.

VonWibble - 3 out of 5
Flexibility of options is great and well worth the gold, as long as you are careful enough with your economy.

Siroma - 3 out of 5
Flexible stealth is nice, but 1 str really sets him back a bit. Works well with Doran, but I’m not very eager to pay his cost when a card like Theon costs one gold more to use one time.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
Now i like this, mainly due to being able to stealth on any icon for what is a pretty cheap price, as well as the fact that he’ll sit and gain strength as the game progresses. Cheap and flexible, but shame he’s pretty useless if Supporting the Faith gets flipped.

Maester Caleotte (41 Total Points)(75%)

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emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
Ideal for just stopping the unopposed and getting something out of it. MELEE BONUS ALERT: Note that it says nothing about scope of the target. Lose a challenge to player X, remove icons off of characters from player Y.

Ire & WWDrakey - 4 out of 5
Ahh, icon-removal… Sweet icon-removal… *Drakey breaks out in a happy sob*

Istaril - 4 out of 5
A perfectly decent ability that keys in well to stalling (chump blocking) and can dictate your opponent’s challenge order. That’s a pretty sizeable benefit, but as your opponent will play around it, its impact won’t be as immediately apparent. Oddly enough, the fact that you can trigger this as an attacker is often much more impactful - so much for going second!

JCWamma - 4 out of 5
This looks innocent, but it really isn't. 3 gold isn't much to spend, and the icon removal is a powerful effect - on a small board it will, at worst, dictate your opponent's challenge order, and, at best, stop your opponent making a key challenge, or defending a key challenge of yours. Better going first than second in all probability.

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
Can push through challenges as attacker with threatening ability or defend and take away icons from opponents future attacker or defender. Combine with good stats for 3 cost character makes a very good character.

Oktarg: 4 out of 5
He's pretty good but I think will be a bit hard to use in practice.

scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Maester C works on attack and defense. You can attack with him alone and be assured of either winning the challenge OR stripping your opponent of multiple options (one character defends and another loses an icon). Or you can block with Maester C and potentially prevent your opponent from making a challenge he would be able to otherwise. There’s value here.

rave - 2 out of 5
Don’t like the math behind this guy. You have to commit him to a losing challenge to get any effect out of it. Having him attack with the intent to lose is interesting, but I’m not sold.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
Unlike many other Martell cards, Caleotte can work better if you are going first, leaving the opponent a tough choice of whether to let you win or have his best character lose challenge options. Or, with Syrio’s Training, ensures the opponent has to make the challenge he really wants to get through first.

Siroma - 4 out of 5
Deceptively strong and a real pain to deal with. Most of the time for the opponent it becomes either, you lose this challenge, or you lose the challenges afterwards. Maester is looking to have some synergies in the future as well.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
Powerful as long as you’ve got your head screwed on, and messes with challenge order round the table (which is perfectly Martell) but paying 3 and a lost challenge to remove one icon is pretty steep. Better make it count.

Obara Sand (25 Total Points)(45%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
We’ll see what happens with Sand Snakes in the future. For now as a Melee character she has life given you can regularly commit her to power defense. I don’t see the point of her in joust.

Ire & WWDrakey - 2 out of 5
Without some Sandsnake synergy, she’s… well. Ok-ish? It seems curious that Martell has an obvious theme of going second, and several characters that benefit from them going first. Almost makes you feel like there’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” element to them..

Istaril - 3 out of 5
Well, if they keep this up I’m going to stop believing the whole “Martell wants to go second” thing. Going first, she’s a high 3, going second, a middling 2. Sure, to some extent it will dictate challenge order (power before military) - but not as well as Caelotte.

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
Eh. I mean, it's fine, but unless you're playing against Bara kneel then she's going to be tough to use well. Have to go first to get true utility out of it (unless the opponent lets you use her to oppose military then power), and even then it's not a particularly spectacular effect. Not terrible certainly, and she'll see play early on, but will be outclassed before long.

mnBroncos - 2 out of 5
Just solid for 3 cost character but nothing spectacular.

Oktarg: 2 out of 5
At least she outclasses her 1.0 cousins.

scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
She can potentially participate in two challenges. But she’s not particularly strong and doesn’t boast any keywords, so, who cares?

rave - 2 out of 5
Underpowered. The effect is a little too situational and it doesn’t feel like we’re getting enough.

VonWibble - 2 out of 5
Another Martell character that rewards you for going first, or, if going second, dictates the order the opponent makes their challenges in. However, the bonus you get for this isn’t massive, especially given her lack of keywords.

Siroma - 2 out of 5
Military is probably Martell’s least important challenge at this point, and the effect is situational and requires you to go first to make full use of it, while most martell players are probably more content to sit back the first couple of turns.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
Good for the playing defensively for the first few turns before the long term Martell effects kick in, ensuring that your opponent doesn’t run away with too much unopposed power. I wonder if the other Snakes will have similar effect on the other icons, which could be very nice if they’re on the table together.

The Red Viper (30 Total Points)(55%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
The reaction is disappointing. There will certainly be times you can manage the crazy combo where you are winning a challenge by 10-15 STR and get a big power grab. Does FFG have something in mind for the future to make this reaction make more sense? Or are we going to have to wait for another Red Viper in a future expansion to get a more interesting version of Martell’s signature character.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
The Viper is a curious beast. When you analyze him you end up in a pattern where you first gush at the potential power-gain, then realize that said power-gain is hard to pull off… and finally end up just valuing him for his raw stats. Well, for us at least. Alone and unconditionally, he packs more punch than almost any of the other 7 costers, and is a decent tool for defending their Challenges, or pushing yours through.

Istaril - 2 out of 5
It’s… like bad renown? Is the best thing you can say about him “he’s still ok with milk of the poppy on him”? If so… how damning is that? How many more questions will I ask in this review? In short, the big payoff is tempting - and in the future, might even be amazing if several effects interact with the STR by which you win the challenge - but right now, he’s pretty much the worst 7 coster.

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
The most controversial card in the core? Right now I frankly think he's a 1, there aren't the surprise effects for that ability to be even close to as good as, say, Renown, or at least not on a consistent basis. He is a 7 STR tricon, but Euron and Tywin both aren't far from that in practice and both have Renown along with other powerful effects. The only thing giving him this high a rating is the prospect of future tech to truly leverage that reaction.

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
Strong 7 strength tricon. With an ability that can gradually win you the game or finish it for you when you are on 12 power. People who want to win the game with this character on turn 3 is doing it wrong.

Oktarg: 2 out of 5
He sucks and only works at optimum with the game already in hand. Saving grace: 7 str tricon.

rave - 3 out of 5
The Shagga in me is screaming to escape, but I won’t let it. The Red Viper is alright. He’s definitely a force to be reckoned with at 7 STR, but.. he’s 7 gold.. he can be blanked, knelt, and slapped around in any number of ways like any other character, which is sad considering his 1.0 form. If the game is close, he probably isn’t going to do anything but push through challenges.

scantrell24 - 2 out of 5
Compared to the other 7-costers, Viper doesn’t get the job done. Flashy, swingy abilities like his are difficult to balance, sure, but the design team treaded too cautiously. He really deserves renown on top of the ability (which could then become 1 power for every 8 strength), or he could trigger on defense as well for a touch more versatility. Back in reality, at least he’s protected from Tears, and the power he accumulates is mostly safe (only Varys and Sword can remove him). So those factors keep him from being pure garbage.

VonWibble - 3 out of 5
High strength means on attack he beats most characters 1 on 1. He really needs other cards with abilities like stealth of icon removal to get going, but once he does, he is going to net a couple of power for you per turn. However, the fact he has the power put on him rather than your faction card is very dangerous, even in an environment lacking direct kill.

Siroma - 3 out of 5
While he doesn’t provide the economy that QoT or Tywin brings nor the raw power that Robert does, when combined with doran and Doran’s game he can bring about huge shifts in power within a short time frame. That being said, he’s vulnerable to cards like treachery and a lack of keywords really sets him back.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
Alright, I know he’s 7 strength and therefore a beast in regular challenges, but that pseudo-super renown is goddamn cancellable with Treachery. Like the best Viper before him, late game he’ll be a problem and will likely be able to pick up 1 or 2 power per challenge with his ability (especially coupled with a cheeky Mags Tyrell) but initially he’s a bit bloated and waiting for some crazy Spear attachment likely coming in the near future.

Dornish Paramour (32 Total Points)(58%)

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emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
I’m not sure what the thinking behind this design was. It’s interesting if your opponents use a lot of Little Birds on their big center piece characters that don’t natively have an intrigue icon. Feels like another card waiting for elements that don’t exist yet.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
A card with potential, but tapping that potential is somewhat difficult at least in the Core environment.

Istaril - 3 out of 5
Another ‘go first’ card. What’s going on? I’m sure someone thought “this’ll help create openings for The Red Viper - but… that’s not enough. When going first, a high 3 - when going second, a low 2. Some reasonable flexibility with noble lineage/syrio’s training, though, if you have other reasons to run them.

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
Without this Paramour having a surprise lineage or training from a master, it can only kneel out intrigue icons. That's not terrible, but it also loses a lot of utility when you can't touch Balon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, Robert Baratheon and the like. 3 gold is a fair amount for a monocon without exceptional STR, and if you're going second (which in theory you want to do as Martell) then your targets are likely to be smaller anyway. There are some times it will prove important, but they will not be the norm.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
Forcing a character to defend is a powerful ability it was an ability even on a champion card. However, only works on intrigue icon (unless give her more icons) still as good as you can hope for with a non-unique character.

Oktarg: 2 out of 5
Good in one challenge if you go first in a house that wants to go second.

rave - 3 out of 5
Neutralizes problem characters which is nice, but being forced to trigger with just an intrigue icon out of the box is a tough sell. And you’ll probably end up losing the challenge too, or at least not claiming unopposed power for it.

scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
So versatile, and yes she's still good even when challenging second. The Paramour helps win challenges that you couldn’t have otherwise, which makes her one of my favorite Martell cards.

VonWibble - 3 out of 5
This is another character that can punish the opponent for making you go first. Unfortunately, deadly isn’t a keyword in this game (for newer players, this lets you kill a character in the same challenge). However, the combination of this with an Ironborn wielding a Throwing Axe makes me want to use this character. I’ve already mentioned Syrio’s Training above, and we have another good target for it here. Loses points because a lot of nasty characters you want to kneel don’t have intrigue icons.

Siroma - 2 out of 5
Since the ability reads must be declared as a defender if able, if the opposing character does not have the corresponding icon then the paramour’s ability doesn’t work. Being a 3 cost mono-intrigue character doesn’t really help in that regard either, given the fact that many houses lack strong intrigue characters that are also good at something else.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
Shame about the icon “spread” but there’s some (expensive) use in giving this extra icons via attachments. The whole “Martell going first” thing is puzzling but I guess there needs to be some flexibility for decks that don’t always play on the back foot. Using this with Caleotte to force big characters to kneel, removing another icon, and then going in for the kill with the Viper sounds like a perfect storm of Martell fun and games, but you’re not going to pull that off every turn….

Greenblood Trader (54 Total Points)(98%)

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emptyrepublic - 5 out of 5
This does double duty by providing draw and/or ‘deck control’. If you get to income locations you don’t need at least you can push them to the bottom of the deck so they are out of the way for your next draw opportunity. The way the reaction text is structured means that you can combo with Arianne (if you want) or take advantage of future card effects that bring characters into play.

Ire & WWDrakey - 5 out of 5
Basically the de facto Martell card-engine. Run him 3x in every Martell deck you build, for the foreseeable future.

Istaril - 5 out of 5
I’d call this a better House Messenger - a Martel staple, with the lack of “reveal” being an important advantage and the 2 cost monocon being a better value than it was in first edition. You’re running this 3x, probably from now until the Core rotates out. Which it doesn’t.

JCWamma - 5 out of 5
Very similar to first edition's House Messenger, which was basically an auto-include for Martell for the entire length of the game. This has two strikes against it (1 lower STR and a cancellable reaction), but also doesn't reveal the cards to the opponent, so I think it'll once again prove an auto-include.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
Almost an exact reprint of a card in first edition that sees play in 99 percent of Martell decks even with that large of a card pool. This is a very strong card. My only complaint is that it's the "card draw" effect for Martell in the core set, which hurts Martell as a faction (because it's not repeatable like the others) but card for card very good and will see a lot of play for entire game life.

Oktarg: 5 out of 5
I like cards.

scantrell24 - 5 out of 5
Card advantage cannot be replaced or understated. In Fealty decks, she’s an absolute steal. Everywhere else she’s a regular steal.

rave - 5 out of 5
Yep. Card draw.

VonWibble - 5 out of 5
Very similar to a card in first edition, however the reserve rule replacing the draw cap makes it lose some of it’s power. Nonetheless, you are getting claim soak and searching for a decent card, so it goes into decks easily.

Siroma - 5 out of 5
Being Martell’s only reliable source of draw right now, almost every deck is going to slot her in.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
Yay, it’s the more attractive House Messenger - draw and claim soak in one tidy package. The fact that it’s a triggered reaction (and therefore not immune to cancel) loses it a point.

House Dayne Knight (39 Total Points)(71%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
Solid deck fodder. For now works to get your Martell deck to 60 cards. Hopefully House Dayne becomes more of a thing later on. At a minimum they can hold on to Dawn for you and take advantage of intimidate.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
Good infantry is often more important than your fancy cavalry or artillery. This one sports two Traits one of which is already good and another that might be useful down the line if 1.0 has anything to say about it. A strong aggressive icon pair is good on a weenie.

Istaril - 4 out of 5
A nice icon pairing, traits that will presumably mean something, non-unique so you can comfortably run 3 of (as opposed to, say, the Tickler), this guy does a great job at rounding off a cost curve. Basically one of the best at doing so in the entire core, so let’s give him a nudge up to 4 for that.

JCWamma - 3 out of 5
Assuming these are both positive traits as they were in first edition, this is a very effective weenie that will see play for a long time. Not amazing, nor intended to be.

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
Strong solid 2 cost character.

Oktarg: 3 out of 5
Totally a fine card.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
In first edition, MIL/INTwas my preferred icon pair. Now that intrigue icons are slightly devalued, and considering the abundance of green in Martell, I’d rather have MIL/POW. But he’ll get the job done and wield Dawn capably.

rave - 4 out of 5
Solid and cheap. It doesn’t factor in now, but no bad traits on a cheap non-unique card is nice for the future.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
A passable if dull character.

Siroma - 4 out of 5
Bicon with two positive traits. House Dayne is likely to get more support in the future, so he’s likely going to remain decent throughout the game.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
Good icons, at a stretch usable with Dawn if you’re stuck. Nothing bad about it really.

Palace Spearman (35 Total Points)(64%)

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emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
The rating maybe a touch high even for melee, but the likelyhood is that you will not be first player that often so it’s not unreasonable to treat this one as a 4/4 tricon and until something better comes along it’s good value.

Ire & WWDrakey - 2 out of 5
Ehh… Not really excited here. Doesn’t really bring as much to the table as most of the other Armies.

Istaril - 3 out of 5
The other armies at 4 for ‘scaling’ 3 (GJ/Tyrell) are generally better at winning challenges, and this card is generally better at stalling the way you want to, which in theory should be better for Martell. I’m not sure that’s true yet, but I wouldn’t say he’s any worse than the other armies (except Ranging Party). A card that actually improves as second player - about time!

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
That text really isn't impressive, I'm sorry. What's so great about being a tricon when you can't participate in more than one challenge anyway? It's certainly better than nothing, but half the time being a blank 4-for-4 bicon and half the time being a blank 4-for-4 tricon feels like the sort of card that will soon be out-classed.

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
Maybe the best of the armies with being able to be a tricon character. Amazing in melee as well.

Oktarg: 3 out of 5
He's good for the core, for sure. Maybe he will be outclassed but cost for strength with icons alone is solid.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
Passable but unexciting, which is par for the course with many non-uniques so far. I’m sure we’ll see more interesting alternatives soon.

rave - 4 out of 5
I think this is already great strength on a bi-con character. The potential to have in tri-con is very nice.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
Good strength and icons for cost even without the intrigue icon. Long term will probably disappear from decks though.

siroma - 2 out of 5
Pretty costly, and it can still only participate in one challenge anyhow. Lackluster compared to nearly all of the other armies.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
Great out of the core, I just wish they had made him House Dayne. Tricons are not to be sniffed at, and a good card to use with Arianne Martell if you need some surprise beef.

Dawn (32 Total Points)(58%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
In the long run we need to see how well Martell does to draw out games so that Doran and Dawn show their worth with gradual strength boosts. We don’t have a lot of House Dayne characters at the moment so decent targets to get the intimidate keyword are going to be limited. At the current cost it’s worth considering in a deck but far from being necessary.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
Decent enough (especially on the above infantry!), should see play as an 1x in decks at least for a while. Especially if Burn becomes a thing.

Istaril - 2 out of 5
Intimidate and a STR boost should be amazing, but it isn’t. It’s too ‘combo-y’ with too few targets to do anything. The STR matters on the Viper, but that just makes a poor card slightly less poor by adding another lousy card on it. The ‘dream’ of Edric, Doran and Dawn sounds wonderful - so keep dreaming. Once we get another 1-2 good Dayne targets for this, it has serious potential.

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
Not enough good targets for the latter half (yet), and the former effect isn't too amazing - compare to the terrible Drogo's Arakh, which even if it gets placed on not-Drogo will still at least match this until round 4. Once more Daynes come out it will increase in value, because Intimidate is the main thing this is good for.

mnBroncos - 3 out of 5
Unlike Khal Drogo’s weapon this is good on any character. If happen to be on a House Dayne character you get a slightly nice addition.

Oktarg: 3 out of 5
It's okay. It's not making me want to play Martell just for it, that's for sure.

rave - 3 out of 5
Nice, but a 2 gold attachment. Worth it for the cost, but looks to be unreliable.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
If only we had a cheap, non-unique House Dayne character… Oh wait, we do! Slap this on the Knight and you’re in business. Don’t have a Knight yet? It suits the Viper just fine, or anybody else can hold onto it for safekeeping until they leave play.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
As with Doran, this becomes worth it on plot 3 and beyond. The intimidate is a nice bonus more than anything else given that the House Dayne characters have lower base strength to begin with. I’d find it hard to not pack at least 1 copy in the core set so I’m possibly rating too high, we’ll see.

Siroma - 3 out of 5
Oh, I have an 11 str Edric Dayne with stealth and intimidate. The strength it provides is passable on round 3 and gets good past round 4, but the real draw is that it’s non-loyal and can be attached to anyone. Without the intimidate portion though, it’s relatively lacking. It’s no widow’s wail, but it can pack a punch on characters that may see multiple uses a turn.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
Limited House Dayne targets restrict this at the start of the game’s life (WHERE THE HELL IS DARK STAR?), but oops hang on back in a minute…..

Ghaston Grey (55 Total Points)(100%)

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emptyrepublic - 5 out of 5
Cannot be saved. CANNOT BE SAVED. Please read the card people. Short of a cancel effect this is one of the few control effects your opponent can do nothing about and provides strong disincentive to attack you. Super critical for controlling center piece characters.

Ire & WWDrakey - 5 out of 5
Definitely one of Martell’s Core powerhouses. Or, should that be anti-powerhouse?

Istaril - 5 out of 5
Cannot be Saved. Practically point and click. You can compare this level of character control to a card like Dracarys - it will dictate play as soon as it hits the board. The fact that you can replay another once you’ve used the first… The bigger threats to this (Put to the Sword/We do Not Sow) make this a card that really makes Martell want to go first. Again. Come on FFG!

JCWamma - 5 out of 5
It's been funny hearing some players complain that this isn't as good as the first edition version. No it isn't, but that doesn't mean it's not phenomenal still, there's a LOT of wiggle room there! The big deal here is “cannot be saved”.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
Maybe the best control card in the game. Bounce a key 7 cost character can be a huge momentum swing that can let you should be able to capitalize on.

Oktarg: 5 out of 5
This may be the best card in the whole set and the main reason to play Martell as your main house.

rave - 5 out of 5
Very strong, and the sacrifice cost means there’s no drawback to slotting multiple copies. Having to lose a challenge is annoying, but this is an awesome effect for little risk.

scantrell24 - 5 out of 5
It clears power, duplicates, and positive attachments on a bomb AND bounces the bomb to hand where it’s vulnerable to intrigue claim. The only downside is that you have to lose the challenge and fulfill claim yourself to meet the triggering condition.

VonWibble - 5 out of 5
A unique location you will likely have 3 copies of. It is about the most powerful targeted control that can affect any character and cannot be saved. This works very nicely with your own intrigue challenges, followed up by Heads on Spikes, to make it likely the character hit will be discarded or killed.

Siroma - 5 out of 5
Best location, hands down. A location that can instantly shut down some of the most dangerous characters in the game without a save must be respected, and is a good reason to go and play Greyjoy for We Do Not Sow.

cockbongo - 5 out of 5
Cuts through your opponent’s triple-duped 7 coster like butter, and even if you have to soak up claim one way or another it completely changes how your opponent attacks. An easy 5 stars - even more so as it’s only 2 cost.

Sunspear (33 Total Points)(60%)

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emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
I can see people not finding this useful in Joust, but as usual Melee can make it much more interesting. This + Hand of the King… two 3 claim power challenges. That particular combo is not going to happen often but the opportunities to take advantage of this in melee will be far more frequent that they ever will be in joust.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
One of those cards that affects gameflow more than it ever triggers. Still, can find a decent home someday, if we get suitable events or other cards to support it.

Istaril - 2 out of 5
Certainly dictates order of challenges, but you can’t help but wish Martell, too, had got a draw location out of the core. Definitely a going second card, and one that will be pretty solid if you can capitalize on the difference in your opponent’s play because of it, but the fact that it’s completely dead going first is what keeps this from being reliable.

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
Useless if you're going first, and even then it has to be a challenge you're capable of taking a loss on and successfully challenging back in. Because of the kneel on Sunspear you also can only do this for one challenge, so no "kamikaze" rounds. I'm thoroughly unimpressed all-in-all.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
I love that each faction for the most part is getting two really powerful locations. Sure you have to go second but if your opponent is letting you go first because this is in play that is its own benefit. This is also a card even stronger in melee.

Oktarg: 2 out of 5
Conditional claim raise is not as good as claim raise. Does nothing on its own.

scantrell24 - 4 out of 5
Flexible, powerful, and rewards smart play.

rave - 4 out of 5
Very strong. Again, you have to lose challenges for it to do anything, which drops it down a point, but it’s very little investment and risk for great potential.

VonWibble - 3 out of 5
Either you are going first or your claim has just risen on a challenge of your choice each turn. Either way, it’s all good. Not loyal, strangely, making it a decent choice for Night’s Watch banner of the Sun.

Siroma - 2 out of 5
Martell wants to go for the long game, which means its plots are likely to be defensively oriented and have low initiative, meaning martell is also likely to be chosen as first player by the opponent player. Sunspear is just a bit too conditional and unlike the A Poisoned Spear Red Viper from 1.0, it’s not very flexible.

cockbongo - 2 out of 5
A little bit too conditional for my liking, regularly a dead card but will make your opponent’s head spin on a Sneak Attack round.

Doran’s Game (32 Total Points)(58%)

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emptyrepublic - 2 out of 5
I’m really hoping there’s some future effect for Martell that modifies (e.g. multiples or adds) the used plot effect calculations. This will be useful a bit too late. Also it’s not free which seems like a bad deal since you have to wait to use it. Maybe it’ll find life in the future but for now go with superior claim.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
Dare we say this… more of a Melee card? With Martell’s current draw, this will be hard to fit into decks, but it should have some interesting finisher-potential somewhere down the line.

Istaril - 3 out of 5
I don’t think you can reliably pace the game to get this off on the turn(s) you need it yet, but once your control lock does get that good, this is an extremely potent card. 3+ power swings are a big deal, and the card is flashy, fun, and inspires deck building. I

JCWamma - 2 out of 5
"Oh wow, this is busted, you can use it to get an absurd power swing! It's so much better than other events that do similar things like, uh, Superior Claim, which is cheaper, far better in Melee games and this isn't better than until round 4, at which point you have a three-round window until this becomes terrible again... oh, nevermind."

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
A 1 cost event that can gain you 4 or 5 power late in the game is huge. The biggest downside is obviously kind of a dead card in the early part of the game.

Oktarg: 1 out of 5
Do you play superior claim? Then why play this?

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
Reying on Doran’s Game as your win condition is like trying to shoot the exhaust vent of the Death Star. Most of the time you’ll be thwarted, but occasionally you’ll have phenomenal success. Much like Dracarys!, opponents will have to respect and fear Doran’s Game even when you don’t have it.

rave - 4 out of 5
Umm… wow. This is a new one. As said before by others, will just clog your deck up for a turn or three, but there’s a lot of potential for an upset in this. This would be a fantastic 1x to throw in just in hope you grab it in the mid to late game.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
This is a 2 of card in most decks. Not 3 copies, because I don’t want to see it too early in the game. The potential this has to finish games cannot be ignored at all.

Siroma - 3 out of 5
Very potent in melee, which has always been one of Martell’s strong points. Even though it’s not as good as Superior claim until round 3, gaining a large amount of power in very few challenges greatly helps as it makes you seem less of a threat until you play the card. Then again, someone is probably going to have the hand’s judgement in hand, but it’s potential should not be underestimated and people are going to have to play with that in mind.

cockbongo - 3 out of 5
I admit, when i first saw this I thought we’d found the first card to hit the v2.0 restricted list. Then I woke up and realised how limited it really is. Cancellable and only valuable within a particular time frame, this is going to go off like a bomb 1 time out of 10 but you don’t need events like this sitting dead in your hand. There’s an easy comparison with Superior Claim, but that’s POW challenges and Martell are a bit heavier on the INT side and it could be free in with Fealty. Why not run one of each? It’s a definite 1x in a Dark Wings, Dark Words deck, however. Sorry, what? Oh, right, of course.

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (34 Total Points)(62%)

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emptyrepublic - 3 out of 5
Another card that feels like it’s part of a large picture that we don’t quite see yet. Also, I’m not getting the dual restriction of not being first player and losing on defense. If the intent is to prevent the event from being used “offensively” to lock out opponents out of a challenge before they have their challenge phase then I’m not sure why the “first player” restriction needs to be there. Anyway, it’s decent tempo control nonetheless.

Ire & WWDrakey - 3 out of 5
How many 3/5s have we given already? Feels like Martell is the Faction of decent cards with potential, that just don’t quite pan out in the Core environment. Like pieces of several puzzles all mixed up together with some pieces missing. Contrast this to the GJ cardpool, where all of the cards are aligned to form a single cohesive theme, and the difference is striking. Still, this may not be a bad thing for Martell in the long run, since as the cardpool expands we will hopefully expand most of these themes and suddenly have several valid directions for the Faction. Meanwhile, if GJ wants other directions, those will need to be built from the ground up. Oh, the card itself? U, U, U is a perfectly decent and importantly *free* event, that should find a home in a deck somewhere down the line.

Istaril - 2 out of 5
It’s better than U,U,U from first edition… It’s dead if you’re going first, and, unless you have other cards that force your opponent to initiate challenges in a sub-optimal order, isn’t going to do much by itself. It’s an element in a controls suite that just hasn’t hit critical mass, and while it may gain a lot of power as Martell’s control base expands, right now it’s just not that constraining.

JCWamma - 3 out of 5
It's a powerful effect...half the time, and half the time it's a dead card. I think I slightly prefer The Kraken's Grasp, which has a similar feeling but also helps you get surprise challenge wins. This lets you beg off the second most-important challenge claim, which isn't exactly stellar in comparison, while still absolutely being a strong card for certain decks.

mnBroncos - 5 out of 5
Very strong card. Sure you have to lose a challenge but being able to stop any other challenge that you don’t want them to do for 0 is huge to a Martell player’s plan.

Oktarg: 3 out of 5
It's okay, but too conditional to truly shine.

rave - 2 out of 5
Sometimes on a saturday on a leap year if there is a full moon… No. Will either just sit there, or be mildly useful. At least in my meta, it’s common for players to open with intrigue, so this wont do much good for the Game of Thrones plot.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
It’s far less impressive than first Edition’s Burning on the Sands. Not even close.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
Situational for sure, but at that cost what did you expect? Denying an opponent a challenge will always be useful at some point in the game.

Siroma - 2 out of 5
Without reliable ways to win initiative, this card is likely to just sit in your hand for extended periods of time. This also means that on turns you may want to trigger it, you often won’t be able to.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
I’m all for this one, mainly because it’s free. In some instances icon removal gives you better challenge control as challenge denial just can just leave more of your opponent’s characters standing but coupled with a Calm over Westeros opening this can stretch the game out.

Confinement (45 Total Points)(82%)

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emptyrepublic - 4 out of 5
This would have been a 5 if it was free or the STR limit check was higher. It’s reasonable to keep it from hitting the top end characters, but upping the STR check to 5 would make this very potent control option.

Ire & WWDrakey - 5 out of 5
One of the rare and immediately useful Martell Core cards, and one that we would expect to see as 3x in every Banner of the Sun deck for a while now. Looking at the Core, this is actually one of the best and most flexible point-and-click Control events in the whole Box, especially due to it’s flexible timing.

Istaril - 4 out of 5
This is what a control card that *isn’t* dependent on the rest of the control suite looks like. Versatile, point and click, and (in the core environment), hard to counter. Who is running icon ‘gain’ on characters that already have icons? The STR limitation matters a great deal, though.

JCWamma - 4 out of 5
Highly effective spot control that can hit most characters in the game right now. I don't see a reason a Martell deck or Banner of the Sun deck wouldn't run it in this limited cardpool, though I expect it to take a back seat in the future.

mnBroncos - 4 out of 5
The Prince’s Wrath for 1 gold that hits 80% of the characters. I love icon control and this is a very strong version of that style of effect.

Oktarg: 4 out of 5
I think the characters you really want to use this on are out of range, but still very strong.

scantrell24 - 3 out of 5
Can’t be reduced by Fealty, only affects one character (while Bara’s Consolidation of Power can target multiple dudes), and leaves the character standing to count it’s strength for dominance. In theory you could pair Confinement with Tears, but that’s inefficient and can’t touch the bombs. Overall - meh. It could improve later with more abilities that punish no icon characters.

rave - 5 out of 5
Very strong and cost effective disruption. A Martell classic.

VonWibble - 4 out of 5
Whilst the limitation stops it being too powerful, it still hits some very good characters such as Catelyn Stark. This card all but removes a character from the game for a challenges phase, and that can’t be ignored.

Siroma - 4 out of 5
Especially nice on targets like Catelyn and Asha, but the big draw is that it is non-loyal and easily splashable, making it quite nice bannered out of baratheon. It’s effect feels a bit weaker than consolidation of power especially since fealty can’t reduce the cost, but it has the key advantage of being an any phase action.

cockbongo - 4 out of 5
Good on its own and that’s important. 1 cost to neutralise a 4 coster is balanced well, and i’m sure we’ll be getting to kill characters with no icons soon enough.

Thought you were done reading?

Before we award the top 3 and bottom 3 non-reducer cards based on cumulative points, I'd like to take a second to plug the Community FAQ. It includes useful information about the game and links to a wide variety of resources such as podcasts, streamed games and player maps, which newcomers and veterans alike will find useful. The community FAQ is a work in progress that receives constant updates, so please share it with friends, and check back yourself every now and then. Also please suggest additions! Now without further ado...

Top 3 Non-Reducer Cards:
Ghaston Grey (55)(100%)
Greenblood Trader (54)(98%)
Arianne Martell (53)(96%)

Bottom 3 Non-Reducer Cards:
Obara Sand (25)(45%)
The Red Viper (30)(55%)
Doran's Game (32)(58%)
Dawn (32)(58%)
Dornish Paramour (32)(58%)

Feel free to chime in below. Did we nail it? Make any horrible oversights? Let us hear it, and we'll be back on Monday with the Martell cards from the Core.


41 Comments

It'd be interesting to see the average/mean rating per faction. I haven't run the numbers, but Martell seems to come off a bit under par.

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LorasTyrell
Aug 24 2015 02:27 AM
Doran, The Red Viper and Doran's Game are exceptionally underrated IMO, they win games on their own

It'd be interesting to see the average/mean rating per faction. I haven't run the numbers, but Martell seems to come off a bit under par.

Ehm, the mean/average of the current review and all previous ones are listed in the opening of the article.

Ehm, the mean/average of the current review and all previous ones are listed in the opening of the article.

 

Whoops. I tend to skip over that, I guess.

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LorasTyrell
Aug 24 2015 04:05 AM
Personally I think that some reviews don't take much into account Martell's actual strategy and potential: control the game and swing back with a huge challenge turn late game (10 powers or so between a pumped Viper and Doran's game is quite achievable). To the spears anyone? :D

Seen in this way, Doran, TRV, Doran's Game and even Dawn are huge, not 5s maybe, but easy 4s imho.

Still, I agree that at the moment Martell is a bit clunky and probably one of the least synergic factions in this core set.. But there is huge potential!

Thanks as always for your work guys!

It'd be interesting to see the average/mean rating per faction. I haven't run the numbers, but Martell seems to come off a bit under par.

 

I am running the numbers as part of my ongoing 'Review the Review' blogs (eg. http://oldgodsandthe...-baratheon.html).  

 

I know they're including the average scores at the top but I think that's slightly misleading, unless you think Messenger Raven's 100% score is equivalent to Tyrion Lannister or The Red Keep's 100% score.  There are extra steps needed to correctly weight the % scores to show a more genuine power ranking for the houses.

 

Once all eight are done I'll be doing some blogs comparing across the houses, but I can confirm that with only Tyrell to go this review places Martell as the worst faction, slightly behind The Night's Watch.

 

Greyjoy are ranked a clear #1, particularly for Fealty.

    • 14Shirt likes this

Personally I think that some reviews don't take much into account Martell's actual strategy and potential: control the game and swing back with a huge challenge turn late game (10 powers or so between a pumped Viper and Doran's game is quite achievable). To the spears anyone? :D

Seen in this way, Doran, TRV, Doran's Game and even Dawn are huge, not 5s maybe, but easy 4s imho.

Still, I agree that at the moment Martell is a bit clunky and probably one of the least synergic factions in this core set.. But there is huge potential!

Thanks as always for your work guys!

 

The problem with this is that you're talking about a combo that requires getting all of the faction's big cards, then holding off your opponent until round 5-6 and then being able to launch an alpha strike and have said alpha strike not be interrupted (say, Hand's Judgement on Doran's Game, or Filthy Accusations on The Red Viper, or Milk of the Poppy on Doran, or, or, or). The stars need to align too much - it's not impossible, but if you rely on that in a tournament in the current cardpool, I don't see how you win. Maybe when more control cards come out, Martell will be able to pull it off consistently enough for it to be truly viable, but right now it feels like having to flip a coin and get tails 5 times in a row to me.

I am running the numbers as part of my ongoing 'Review the Review' blogs (eg. http://oldgodsandthe...-baratheon.html).  

 

I missed this existing, that's a really cool resource. Good stuff!

    • WWDrakey likes this

Would rate Doran's Game higher. It works in defense and it's very easy to trigger it that way mid/late game. Can either shutdown this challenge or put a huge risk on the opponent.

I missed this existing, that's a really cool resource. Good stuff!

 

Thanks!

Once I've done all 8 faction reviews I'm planning some neat ways of comparing the houses.

eg. (without Tyrell) The Most Powerful Cards in Core...
TjZ2AqY.png

Re: Doran
For me, a card with insight would need to be really bad to not get a 4/5. Stat-wise, he's inline with Daenerys (Strength = Cost-2 , bicon). He has the same number of characters that he interacts with (3). Now I'm not saying he's as good as her, but I feel like people are treating him like he's a trash card in need of support, and he's actually quite good now.

Re: Greenblood Trader
Conversely, I think this is way overrated. A 2/1 monocon for 2 that replaces itself in hand. How is this better than For The North? Yes, one is a unit, but it's not a unit I want to pay 2 for. I just don't know why you wouldn't play a character that you actually want to play over this. A 2 gold cantrip isn't that great imo.

Re: Doran's Game
I think the difference between this card and Superior Claim is that this is off an Intrigue challenge. I actually don't think Superior Claim is that bad. But I think having a +5 Intrigue event, provides strong bluff potential, and I'm more willing to commit to an Intrigue challenge than a Power challenge, so there's less opportunity cost to it. 3-4/5, imo.
    • Avatar likes this

Re: Greenblood Trader
Conversely, I think this is way overrated. A 2/1 monocon for 2 that replaces itself in hand. How is this better than For The North? Yes, one is a unit, but it's not a unit I want to pay 2 for. I just don't know why you wouldn't play a character that you actually want to play over this. A 2 gold cantrip isn't that great imo.
 

 

I think this is a weakness in the way they're rating things 1-5 which we've seen in the other factions as well.

 

5/5 can mean that a card is amazing and wins games.  5/5 can also just mean that it's nothing special but there's no reason not to play 3 copies because it always does enough to justify the cost.  Very different cards pick up a 5/5 rating.

The key with the Trader is that it doesn't just replace itself, but filters your deck in your favour as well. It is essentially a reprint of House Messenger, and that card was an auto-include in every Martell deck in the first edition. I remember very vividly some Martell players saying that other than The Red Viper it was their favourite card to draw, period.

 

 

Istaril - 5 out of 5
Action advantage (use her, then bring in a standing character). Surprise dupes (bring in her own dupe). Economy advantage (use her to bring in a character you couldn’t reduce with your martell/noble cause reducers). Dodge a wildfire (or valar?). So much versatility, so many tricks, such a nice package.

 

I don't think you can bring in Arianne's dupe with her ability (or rather, you can, but it's not worth anything) since the return to hand can't be saved from.

I don't think you can bring in Arianne's dupe with her ability (or rather, you can, but it's not worth anything) since the return to hand can't be saved from.



The then effect won't resolve, since you never successfully brought in a character.

The then effect won't resolve, since you never successfully brought in a character.


And so it begins....
    • NikolaP likes this
Patience, my dear Viper, we'll get To the spears! soon ..
Trader is better than For the North because you get a body along with a selective replacement/filter as opposed to an event you won't even need to play except to get it out of your hand to draw something else. Better just to take it out of your deck to draw something better in the first place.


Other than rating Doran AND The Red Viper lower than I think they deserve, everything else was on point. I actually think Martell is one of the strongest houses if used properly.

And thanks for the Arianne tactic, Istaril!

The key with the Trader is that it doesn't just replace itself, but filters your deck in your favour as well. It is essentially a reprint of House Messenger, and that card was an auto-include in every Martell deck in the first edition. I remember very vividly some Martell players saying that other than The Red Viper it was their favourite card to draw, period.


First is First. Second is Second. (Also, I would like it much more if it was 2 Strength).

For me, it simply doesn't make any sense for me to consider this as a 5/5, if I'd rather play it over something else. For example, if I have 5 gold, I'd rather play Arianne than Trader + a 3 cost.

I think Trader there is tempo loss. Obviously, there are times where Trader + 3 is better, but in general I think splitting your gold between characters is not as good as putting it on a single character.

Also, let's not forget that it's bad on set up (something that is frequently mentioned if relevant to other cards, but not here).

So 5/5? I dunno. When I first saw the card, I thought 5/5 also. But I just don't think it's in the same league as other cards, it just doesn't do enough compared to cards that repeatedly draw cards or strongly impact the board.

It's fine, but I don't think it's a 5/5.

The 1.0 comparison, House Messenger, was run in pretty much every Martell deck in the game due to the house's lack of other methods to get cards into their hand. In that context, being one of the few ways Martell can reliably gain card advantage, I would say that the trader still is a 5/5 until more viable draw options come out. It is a card that will see play in every Martell deck for a while, like it or not.

I think that's the sort of thing MagicDave was talking about - the scores are given in the context of their factions, and don't really line up when you're comparing them cross-faction.

 

Compare the Traders to, say, Messenger Raven. The Ravens are far better (repeatable, cheaper, setup-friendly, etc). Both are given 5/5 ratings because they're auto-includes for their respective factions, but Messenger Raven is the better card.

I think that's the sort of thing MagicDave was talking about - the scores are given in the context of their factions, and don't really line up when you're comparing them cross-faction.

 

Compare the Traders to, say, Messenger Raven. The Ravens are far better (repeatable, cheaper, setup-friendly, etc). Both are given 5/5 ratings because they're auto-includes for their respective factions, but Messenger Raven is the better card.

 

Yes, I would prefer a rating system that saw a staple card get like 4/5 and make room above that for a true "wow this guy is awesome" differential to exist.  It felt like the bar for 5/5 was set really low, or perhaps more accurately that there were two totally different reasons for handing out a 5/5 rating.

Being "a card that will see play for a while" should not be what earns a 5/5 rating IMHO.  It's the card equivalent of being the trashy mag that hurls out 5/5 reviews for every film the reviewer didn't walk out of.  "You'll totally stay to the end: 5 Stars".  

 

5/5 should mean something is very good, that's why the 4/5 rating exists ;-)
 

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emptyrepublic
Aug 25 2015 09:38 AM

At the risk of bringing up the rating system discussion (again), ultimately everyone needs to use their own judgment if they feel a card is good or bad. I was talking with a friend the other day who felt Hand's Judgement wasn't actually that good and he made some good points. I don't necessarily agree with him but he was able to defend his position pretty well. 

 

The ratings are heavily tinged on individual play style and experience. This is why you need to play play play and see what works for you and your meta. This is why the mini-bios we had at the start were useful. Understanding our perspectives helps frame what you are reading then compare it against your own philosophy on deck building and play style. 

 

The upshot of the current way we do reviews is that it at least spurs a fair amount of discussion.

There's some of that, but then when you look at a card that got 100% then everyone gave it 5/5 so personal preference isn't relevant.  So pretty much all ten of you decided that Greenblood Trader was as good as a card could possibly be.  Or the rating system is wacky.

 

I liked Hand's Judgement a lot when I saw it.  I've come from Magic back when mono-blue control was a real thing so I love counterspells.  It's a good cost and counters good cards.  But the more I play it the less I like it.  It's a situational card for cancelling your opponent's situational cards, making it situationally situational.  It also has a poor relationship with Intrigue - if you're playing Intrigue then typically you're quite good at discarding your opponent's situational cards before the situation arises where he can play them, and if you're not good at Intrigue then you'll be discarding Hands Judgement before the situation arises where you you can cancel his situational card.

More and more I found myself wishing Hand's Judgement was something more proactive, and in the end I took them out and haven't looked back (much).  Every time you look at the card in hand and wish it was Hand's Judgement there's a tinge of regret, but you're more happy more often when you play something else.  (IMHO)

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ScionMattly
Aug 25 2015 10:52 AM

It's important to note things are rated differently in second than first, because in first you could run messenger ravens over Greenblood traders. In second, it is much, much harder to do so. Only neutral cards can really be weighed against the entire card pool.