Beyond the Wall, Season 3 Episode 4

Minor correction for anyone who is looking for the collected version of The Hedge Knight stories: the name of the book is "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms", not "A Knight of the Realm".

Minor correction for anyone who is looking for the collected version of The Hedge Knight stories: the name of the book is "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms", not "A Knight of the Realm".

Good catch! I've also added the following Erratum: Smirtouille has apparently done a fair bit of second edition art, including the fantastic art on Lady (Which also uses the attachment frame to it's advantage) and Summer. 

Coming into Thrones 1.0 at the very beginning of the LCG stage (when none of my friends liked it) and playing it towards the end, Valar always felt like one of the cards, if not the card that defined the game. There's obviously a lot of discussion as to why the card is needed, or not needed from 1.0 veterans and 2.0 only players alike, but if Valar was made as a fix to some 1.0 issues, couldn't these have been solved for 2.0? Does the cycling out of cards help with these potential issues? I hope when we do see Valar, it's in a chapter pack so it doesn't necessarily remain a fixture and become the game defining card it was in 1.0

Why does everyone think Valar will return?

Why does everyone think Valar will return?

The designer of the game said it would on are last episode.

The designer of the game said it would on are last episode.

Ah. Yes that is usually a sign.

A couple of Nedly points I want to quibble about (I tend to do that, Nedly discussion is a thankless job).

First, I thought it was established that Moon Boy is faking his idiocy. Ser Dontos tells Sansa that Moon Boy is faking and is in the pocket of Varys. Moon Boy also kinda breaks character when Margery is arrested in Book 4.

Second, I will admit that Gregor being a lord is a stretch, but he is the head of Clegane Keep, which me might see in the game since Clegane is a trait. I will agree that a landed knight is not a lord, but Gregor is as much of a lord as Davos, who had a few cards with the lord trait in first ed.

Speaking of that keep, I kinda want to see a card off of it. Ned thinks about it in book one and describes it as a horrible place. And there are rumors about what happened to the Gregor's father, and the sister that nobody ever talks about, and Gregor's first two wives…

Also, Gregor's ability to just randomly kill people reflects the fact that during the duel with the Red Viper, the Gregor just cuts an innocent bystander in two when trying to kill the Viper. He just randomly kills people. Good Nedly ability.

Also, is anyone else sad that The Hound, The Knight of Flowers, and the Red Viper all got to their nicknames as their cards, but The Mountain has to go by his real name? I am a little sad.

It makes me sad that Jon has not read the Dunk & Egg novellas. Not only are they excellent (I would quibble with Alex and say they are as good on a prose level as ASoI&F) but I always thought you two should make synergetic Dunk & Egg designs as your champ cards.

Also, as Sean notes, Gregor is at the same feudal level as Davos as the books open and the Smuggler-Knight had the lord trait in past versions. Indeed, the Cleganes seem to be a pretty powerful house for simply landed knights, since the Mountain has a large number of men sworn directly into his service. 

First, I thought it was established that Moon Boy is faking his idiocy. Ser Dontos tells Sansa that Moon Boy is faking and is in the pocket of Varys. Moon Boy also kinda breaks character when Margery is arrested in Book 4.

Yeah, it's pretty clear he has to be. But I do think it's nedly; a fool mocking someone else well is insightful (and may tell you a lot about that person) - a fool mocking you... well gives everyone else that insight.

Yeah, it's pretty clear he has to be. But I do think it's nedly; a fool mocking someone else well is insightful (and may tell you a lot about that person) - a fool mocking you... well gives everyone else that insight.

True story. Plus since the fool can say whatever he wants he can show insights to the world. It does make Nedly sense.

It kinda makes me wonder what we are going to get from awesomely talented Butterbumps and creepy prophecy Patchface though.

I will say the Dunk and Egg stories are worth reading for nothing else than seeing a more heroic tale be told in Westeros. Dunk and Aegon and good guys who overcome challenges and eventually achieve great things, with the dramatic irony that we as the readers know they die in tragedy. And that change in theme and tone contrasted with A Song of Ice and Fire enriches the world and shows that this is a really rich setting.

Finished the cast btw. Really good talk on Valar. I will probably parrot this to the new players tomorrow night in order to get them to calm down over the card coming into the game.

Back to Rules... the issue that re-launched the game...

I think that I am correct in saying that the new knight plot will not protect your Knights without Intrigue icons from Tears of Lys. Tears of Lys is a card effect from an event, the event does not target anyone, the effect of the event does (placing the poison token) therefor the knight being immune to events does not matter in the case of Tears as it can still hit them.

I read this in an article from Ktom somewhere on cardgamedb, so am assuming that it is correct.

Back to Rules... the issue that re-launched the game...

 

I think that I am correct in saying that the new knight plot will not protect your Knights without Intrigue icons from Tears of Lys. Tears of Lys is a card effect from an event, the event does not target anyone, the effect of the event does (placing the poison token) therefor the knight being immune to events does not matter in the case of Tears as it can still hit them.

 

I read this in an article from Ktom somewhere on cardgamedb, so am assuming that it is correct.

You read it in a thread on the official boards, where Ktom ruled in that direction (applying some first edition carry-over), I called it into question, and it was overturned. The delayed effect is still a delayed event effect, so the Knight would be immune to the kill if it were immune to events.

Second, I will admit that Gregor being a lord is a stretch, but he is the head of Clegane Keep, which me might see in the game since Clegane is a trait. I will agree that a landed knight is not a lord, but Gregor is as much of a lord as Davos, who had a few cards with the lord trait in first ed.

Spoilers from book 3

I enjoyed the cast, however, I did not enjoy the review as much as the last one.  I enjoyed Alex's Nedly perspective and Jon's Melee Jaime perspective, but the other two perspectives both felt like just random cards the reviewer liked instead of looking at them from a particular player type perspective.  I feel in the future for these CP reviews you should keep the perspectives focused on the player type they are supposed to represent.

Ok thanks Istaril and Glazer for clearing that up. So I guess the poison token just stays on as a badge of honour for the knight then.

Makes the Knight plot a very good defensive and attacking plot.

I enjoyed the cast, however, I did not enjoy the review as much as the last one. 

Thanks for the feedback! We got some mixed comments about whether we should explore further types (Tyene, etc) - just like we made up "maester" last time, but I can see how "The Knight" might feel a little contrived. 

Still, if it weren't for The Knight, we'd never have got #hedgehorse!

I enjoyed the cast, however, I did not enjoy the review as much as the last one.  I enjoyed Alex's Nedly perspective and Jon's Melee Jaime perspective, but the other two perspectives both felt like just random cards the reviewer liked instead of looking at them from a particular player type perspective.  I feel in the future for these CP reviews you should keep the perspectives focused on the player type they are supposed to represent.

You're right, "The Knight" was a little forced. But to be fair, there are the three known player- Jaime, Shagga and Ned. I thought those were taken (and they were, minus the Jaime being swapped for Thoros), so I created my own. You can think of The Knight like a Jaime slash Ned perspective, with a wee Knight theme thrown in for good measure?

If you forgive me, I'll do better next time. Plus #hedgehorse.

Loved hearing Evan and Sean on a cast !

(and Buzz is always a treat)

"Buzz your girlfriend!  Woof!"

EDIT:  It's from Home Alone.

https://youtu.be/dRa75_Hlr28

Fun fact!

The picture of Buzz's girlfriend is actually a boy in a wig. Chris Columbus felt it would be cruel to use a girl.

Second, I will admit that Gregor being a lord is a stretch, but he is the head of Clegane Keep, which me might see in the game since Clegane is a trait. I will agree that a landed knight is not a lord, but Gregor is as much of a lord as Davos, who had a few cards with the lord trait in first ed.

Davos was named Lord of the Rainwood by Stannis (And Admiral of the Narrow Sea.  And Hand of the King) after he was imprisoned following his return from the Battle of Blackwater Bay.  So the Lord trait was completely Nedly.