Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

First Tilt - Common Mistakes
Jan 08 2013 06:20 PM |
doulos2k
in Game of Thrones
Small Council First Tilt doulos2k
We're going to go through the game phase-by-phase and give some basic examples of what is typically done and how what's typical can be just plain wrong. This week, we're going to focus on Setup through Marshaling, leaving Challenges through Taxation for my next article.
Setup
During Setup, the most common error a new player usually makes happens well before the game starts - deck building. Most new players get enthralled with certain cards and their effects and never once look at their resource curve. This leads to keeping very expensive cards in the deck with no easy way to get them into play. If you find that you're consistently grabbing a two-card setup, then you need to go back and look at your deck.
Beyond that, the most common errors are the following:
- You cannot play duplicates to a unique card during Setup. You'll have to wait for first marshaling to play a duplicate.
- Cards placed during setup are not considered to have entered play. This means that any effect that would trigger by that card being put into play or played from hand cannot be triggered.
- You cannot place more than one card with the Limited keyword during Setup.
- An attachment with the Setup keyword still has to have a legal target in order to be placed during Setup. (E.g. Even with Black Amethysts (MotM) in your hand, you'd have to have an Asshai character placed in setup in order to be able to place the attachment). It may sound ridiculous, but I've had more than one new player just play the attachment without a legal target.
Plot Phase
The most difficult thing to grasp during the plot phase is the order of operation.
- The person who has the highest initiative must choose who the First Player is before any of the plots resolve. This is the most common mistake. Everyone just starts resolving plots before First Player is chosen and then people start drawing cards and... oh yeah, who's First Player?
- The person chosen as First Player then determines the ORDER of "When revealed" plot resolution. That's right - the person with the highest initiative does not choose order of plot resolution unless they've chosen themselves as First Player. In a Melee, this can be a critical point - the First Player doesn't have to resolve the "When revealed" in any specified order - they can choose to resolve them in any order they desire.
- All "When revealed" plots resolve before anyone can trigger any passive effects or responses. The only exception to this rule are effects that would save from or legally cancel a plot effect (or text that would make a card an invalid target for a plot effect).
Draw Cap is three. When I started out, this was very confusing. People have a tendency to erase this rule and think of it as "you can draw five cards per turn." Maybe you're not encountering this problem, but I still get asked from time to time... so here's my breakdown:
- Master of Laws in Melee is a game or title effect and not a card effect - hence it has no bearing on your draw cap. So, assume when I use all-inclusive words in the next bullets, I am not including Master of Laws.
- Anything that allows you to draw more than your standard allotment of 2 cards during the draw phase counts against your draw cap. If your agenda allows you to draw 3 cards, you are now limited to being able to draw only two add'l cards that turn.
- Anything that lowers the number of cards you draw during the draw phase does not add to your draw cap. If you're playing Kings of Summer and somebody makes it Winter so that you only draw a single card during the draw phase; your draw cap is still three cards (meaning the most cards you can draw that turn is four).
- Any card effect that says "draw" counts against your draw cap. This includes plots.
This phase seems pretty straightforward, except that it isn't. There is so much happening here. The most common thing I see new players forget is you do not count gold until it is your turn to marshal. Why is this? There are cards that can affect gold - some will give a bonus while others will give a penalty. You must wait and see if the player before you plays such a card to determine what your actual income is that turn.
During actual marshaling, there is another area that tends to be overlooked. Player Action order. Believe it or not, while only the Active Player can take actions that cost gold, all Player Actions still go in sequence and every player gets their opportunity to make an action in turn. What confuses this further is every single action taken is a separate, distinct action.
Let's say you're the Active Player and you want to kneel three reducers to get a character in for free. Technically, after every kneel action, every other player has an opportunity to take an action before you kneel the next reducer or play your character. Most of the time, this is meaningless, but there are moments when someone will want to take an action. Not clear? How about this:
- You kneel a reducer
- all other players have an opportunity for an action
- You kneel a second reducer
- all other players have an opportunity for an action
- You kneel your third reducer
- all other players have an opportunity for an action
- You put your 3 cost character in for free
- all other players have an opportunity for an action
The important thing is not to rush headlong through marshaling without being sure you're giving your opponent time to react to your actions. Why? You need to learn that these actions are possible so that when you go to a tournament and your experienced opponent stops you and says, "Wait, I have a response," you won't be caught totally off guard and it won't mess with your rhythm.
The other thing that pausing does is cause your opponent to have to consider when they want to take their action. For instance, if you know you want to discard a Sea to reduce a character by two, but you don't want your opponent to cancel that action, instead you would kneel a repeatable reducer first and pause... then they have to decide whether they want to cancel that one or wait and see if you'll discard your Sea.
Conclusion
Okay that wraps up this week's article. Next time, I'll tackle Challenges and the most common errors new players make during what is usually the phase where the greatest amount of activity is taking place.
Did I miss something? Are there other mistakes you've seen? Please, let me know in the comments!
- Zaidkw, bigfomlof, emptyrepublic and 8 others like this
41 Comments
@Bomb - yes, that's a good point. I was planning on covering Renown during Challenges, but it would be good to make the general comment regarding mandatory passives. They must happen and how to deal with the issue if/when it's forgotten is important.
Also, hellholt engineers utilize a similar tactic of trigger during your opponents marshaling actions.
Setup: Anything written on the card (for instance: after [...] enters play) has to be ignored.
Plot: All cards are moribound unless ALL plot effects and ALL responses are done.
Dominance, Standing and Taxation: There are no player actions before the framework events are done (except for shadow cards)
Epic: There are no player action before or after the epic phase.
Are you maybe mixing Setup with Shadows and dupes? Per the core rules, you may not place duplicates of unique cards in your setup.
1) Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
and
2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
@Tobi - good ones, I do try to cover your setup point in this sentence: "Cards placed during setup are not considered to have entered play. This means that any effect that would trigger by that card being put into play or played from hand cannot be triggered." I feel like saying that text is "ignored" might be more confusing.
@Prophit618 - Bomb has the right of it. The rules are explicit on that one (pg. 9 of the Core Set rules).
@wildefox - how could I forget those!! ;-) Well done, Ser, well done.
I'm not even sure this is correct. Last night, I flipped Valar against Called to Court (ODG) and so First Player was very important. If CTC is resolved first, then you can recall something to hand and save it from Valar, because when you then resolve that plot, *then* everything becomes moribund. Which is too bad for him, because he really wanted to go second, but I explained the situation. He wasn't even really trying to counter the Valar, he just wanted to bounce my maester and discard all his bling.
http://www.fantasyfl...=4&efidt=617480
@slothgodfather and @grimwalker - I'm pretty sure what Tobi was saying is that once a card goes moribund it remains moribund until the end of the entire Framework Action Window (which is always the case), but this is commonly misunderstood and does get overlooked. People tend to put all of their characters in the dead pile as soon as they see a Valar without waiting for all elements of the FAW to complete.
Or are you saying that counting gold is the FIRST action?
Lesson of the day? With choke, initiative matters and the initiative penalty on Burned and Pillaged (FtC) really isn't just for show.
The truth is, if you get to Dominance and they forgot Renown, that Renown still technically "happened" as far as the game is concerned. Renown is actually one of the easier passives to deal with as it doesn't tend to cause a rewind in most cases (note that I say "most" cases).
In our local group, I use the following rule of thumb: if a mandatory passive has been missed and you're still in the same Round, then see if the players can agree to rewind based upon the amount of game data that has been revealed. If too much information has now been revealed and rewinding would adversely affect how the turn had been played, then you either need to agree to let it slide or call over a third party to rule on it. If it's not noticed until well into the next turn, you all just chalk it up as a learning experience and all work to avoid the problem going forward.