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Scheming on the Sands - You've Been FAQed
Mar 08 2013 07:50 PM |
emptyrepublic
in Game of Thrones
Small Council Scheming on the Sands emptyrepublic Martell
Scheming on the Sands – “You’ve Been FAQedâ€It’s time for another edition of Scheming on the Sands. For this edition we’ll review the fallout from the 4.0 FAQ and see where we’re Martell stands and how they’ll cope with the significant changes to the restricted list. I had planned to talk about Naval Enhancement but given the big changes in the new FAQ seems like it’s better to do a quick rundown of what’s going on.
New Restrictions
You’ve probably already seen the new list so I won’t bother re-posting all of it here; in case you haven’t you can find the list in the FAQ on the Fantasy Flight website.

Here are the key cards that got added for Joust: A Game of Cyvasse (ACoS), The Scourge (ODG), Refugee of the Citadel (RoW), Orphan of the Greenblood (PotS)
For Melee: The Red Viper (PotS), Hellholt Engineer (CbtC), and The Scourge (ODG)
Sidenote: I’m not clear why PoS Viper is not restricted in joust. I’ve been thinking about it since the updated FAQ was released and I can’t come to a good conclusion. Community insights on this would be welcome.
What Does This Mean?
First off, keep in mind that dynamics vary between Joust and Melee. If you are Melee centric then the updates to the list probably don’t affect you all that much. Your Maester deck is essentially in the same condition as it was before; other control decks are largely untouched with the possible exception of trading out one card for another. The only big question you need to ask yourself is if you want to use The Red Viper (PotS) or not.
For joust, things are quite different. So let’s break it down a bit:
Martell Maesters will require rethinking.
Rushy Maester decks were on the way out in the FAQ update that made The Maester's Path (GotC) restricted. With The Conclave (CbtC) and all the refugees—Refugee of the Citadel (RoW) for Martell—being restricted in joust now the consensus is that Martell Maester rush is no longer feasible. The Conclave being restricted it’s not such a big deal as the refugees fueled the cost reduction for them anyway. So the value of the refugees was really in setup efficiency. More control oriented Maester builds may still have life in them, but the global meta will need some time to determine what might work here. Oh, and Tin Link (CbtC) got restricted as well; so you’ll have to put in some effort to get rid of attachments too.
Setup efficiency took a big hit, but Martell shouldn't care.
Setup efficiency hit everyone pretty equally. Martell Knights of the Hollow Hill (MotM) doesn't care about this obviously. As previously mentioned, Martell Maesters did. The easy answer is to just use Lost Spearman (MotM) instead. Arguably they are better in every way; especially if you get them down in setup. The downside was that they didn't have good synergy with Maester builds as neatly as the Refugees of the Citadel. Many other Martell deck types used the Lost Spearman already so in the broad scheme of things Martell setup strategy won’t change much (if at all). Overall in this regard I think Martell might be up slightly relative to the other houses since several of their builds were more dependent on their refugees.
Martell control needs to become less dependent on old icon manipulation.
This is the change I personally like the least. With Orphan of the Greenblood (PotS) and The Scourge (ODG) both restricted now Martell’s options for challenge control become less obvious. Add in that A Game of Cyvasse (ACoS) is also restricted and then things get even muddier. My guess—similar to that of many others—is that Fantasy Flight is trying to get players to use new cards more to churn the meta. Greenblood Merchant (ARotD) and Qhoyne (THoBaW) come to mind straight off. Relative to Orphans and the Scourge they weren't as good. Now that we are forced into making a choice these cards might get a fair shake now. Who knows we might even come to like them.
Greenblood Merchant is possibly the best weapon against Targaryen KotHH.
In a joust environment Greenblood Merchant will give your Targaryen opponent a sort of Sophie’s choice. Spend an influence to keep icons on key challenge characters or keep the influence for Ambush. They suffer enough from a slow start; make them suffer more by soaking influence. If you like, drop in Edric Dayne (IG) to show them how you really feel.
Ghaston Grey will probably take preeminence over Cyvasse.
A Game of Cyvasse will remain a strong control card, but now it’s a much harder choice to include in your deck. I’m going to guess that Ghaston Grey (FtC) will now become the first choice for character bouncing. It wasn't bad before, but Cyvasse + Scourge/Orphans was perhaps too easy.
Like everyone else, Martell attachments will probably see a comeback.
With Tin Link less likely to ravage the board of attachments expect Taste for Blood (PotS), Poisoned Knife (ASoSilence), and maybe even Venomous Blade (TBoBB) to make a comeback. Poisoned Knife is another good control option, though not quite as reliable as Lost Oasis (AToT); at least it’s another way to force Targ KotHH to burn influence for things they don’t want to. Other Weapon attachments maybe viable depending on builds. I doubt a lot of the Condition attachments will see much more play as there’s plenty of stuff out there that can target Condition.
Play The Red Viper (APS) more.
This applies more to melee due to differing restrictions but I think it’s worth considering playing The Red Viper (APS) in joust as well. Everyone else is going to be bumping up claim, especially with Naval Superiority (TGF) out and Martell stuck on land for the time being. The stealth will be more useful as well since icon manipulation won’t quite carry the punch it used to anymore.
What Happens Now?
It’s time to go back to the drawing board and reconsider using newer cards that we felt weren't worthy of replacing older ones. As previously stated, Maester rush is pretty much out. Knights of the Hollow Hill isn't heavily effected though some decks will need a bit of tweaking. Summer decks are up in the air.
As Shadowcat remarked in last week’s Much and More, it’s time to play and test. Revisit some old under used cards (The Viper's Rage (TftRK) maybe). Look at new options that have recently come out (I think Greenblood Merchant and Qhoyne should be taken seriously). Build new decks, try things out, and discuss. The regionals will very likely bring in a lot of insights on where the meta is shifting; will old decks just be tuned or will new archetypes emerge? Will Martell Knights become a thing now?
Finally, everything I've said in this article might turn out to be completely wrong. I hope it’s not! I’m speculating based on my own experience while incorporating the analysis of the community at large. Hopefully I've given you some food for thought on how to cope for what seems like a dark period for Martell at the moment.
Next Time
On the next edition of Scheming on the Sands; well swing back on course and discuss Naval Enhancement and what Martell can do being stranded on shore.



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38 Comments
That being said, 8 Restricted Joust cards? 4 in Melee when most houses don't have any...and the 2 other houses that do only have 1 each? No Naval enhancements? That is excessive. I wonder how long it will take for FFG to realize they have made a mistake.
Ok, we lost some control (orphans, cyvasse), but there is still a crazy amount of martell control cards and the new faqs were specifically made to push us to experiment new paths.
I'm not clear why they don't just restrict the Martell house card to be done with it...
In a joust environment Greenblood Merchant will do absolutely nothing against you Targaryen opponent because he has STR 1.
Quoted fo da lulz.
And every card that defined Martell Summer is up on the restricted list.
Except, of course, there is one house that had two 0 cost dudes end up on the restricted list, which means setup efficiency hit them twice as hard as it did every other house. Care to guess which one?
Because Martell already has twice as many restricted cards as anyone else despite having a significantly smaller card pool than most of the other houses. Or perhaps because he fits the "Martell Rush" theme FFG seems to be trying to force on us.
House Martell, the new House Baratheon. You heard it here first.
What? The new epic battle? The epic battle in which only naval enhanced characters can participate? I'm pretty sure I own no naval enhanced martell character, and I have both of the new chapter packs....
correction, only naval characters can participate while knelt, others can participate just as well, but they have to be standing. I think the KotHH point was that if you are running 3x bleeds and have some immune character on the table then it is highly likely that only you will have a character to participate on the epic after dominance.
No, what you're hearing is that Martell was kicked while they were down, and that we need to acknowledge that and be realistic about it, not just say "everyone got hurt equally badly so it is okay." We also need to be factually accurate. However, we also have to make do with what we have and find ways to make it work.
The FAQ was a double blow to both icon control and summer builds, which should only have gotten better in the current cycle, as well as to TMP.
I do think Martell is still capable of some great builds.
I was happy to a new card for sand snake builds,
I don't mind missing out on the naval enhancement, if every house had the same ability the game wouldn't be as much fun.i would expect a different house to miss out on the next enhancement.
I didn't say it was okay, I said Martell shouldn't care. From a numerical point it's certainly not fair that Martell got two 0 cost characters restricted when everyone else only had one restricted. I'm sorry for using the phrase 'relatively equally'; though it's entirely beside the point. There's nothing to be gained by arguing that Martell is the biggest victim of the FAQ; time to move on.
I'm 100% in agreement with you here, hence the whole point of this article.
If people think my suggestions or conclusions are crap that's perfectly fine; the point of this is to figure out how Martell can cope in this post FAQ world though, if someone has something to contribute please do. Otherwise, save your 'lulz' for cat videos.
There is exactly 1 agenda in Martell that shouldn't care about setup. 1 Agenda does not the whole house make.
Accuracy is beside the point? That statement just makes my head hurt.
This is true. However, giving inaccurate information is not "moving on" and calling people out for giving inaccurate information is not arguing that Martell is the victim.
Edit: That said, the lulz comment probably wasn't the most helpful, and I apologize for my seeming approval of that behavior. The reason the APS Viper suggestion was met with scorn is 2 reasons, one, because PotS Viper is so amazing, and two, because if you're going to play your opponent's game (ie. claim raising) you need to be better at it than your opponent, and Martell just isn't. We're not in the same league. Instead we need to force them to play our game.
Hmm. Martell still has possibly the most run 'claim raising' character in the game (Arianne Martell (PotS)), so I'm not sure what you're referring to? Naval Superiority (TGF) in particular? To be honest, Chintarion is pretty much just an 'Arianne -lite', if anything (same number of icons, more conditional ability, no keyword). Or were you considering military claim specifically? In that case I sorta see what you're getting at, though there's a myriad of ways to leverage Arianne's claim there as well (Rusted Sword (PotS) being the classic one).
That said, Venomous Blade (TBoBB) (even though restricted) is still just better than any claim raising card will ever be, and pretty much makes up for any other lack in that department. Of course, again, it's not the best restricted card for KotHH or certain styles of non-KotHH control... but definitely one of the top two restricted cards to consider in Martell Aggro -builds.
While I would agree that in 90% of the most popular Martell builds (any KotHH, non-KotHH control builds) The Red Viper (PotS) is miles ahead of The Red Viper (APS), there are a few specific types of deck that would rather use the latter one. Mainly these involve extremely Aggro -oriented decks that tend to flood the board and would gladly run kill event... the former tends to stop the non-kneeling from the other Viper, while the stand/stealth on the other one help push through challenges.
I significantly doubt Arianne will be ran any where near as much as Victarion in the upcoming weeks. Victarion + any military character during naval superiority = claim 4 military. Martell can never realistically match that. Even if Martell could, Greyjoy has the saves to survive it, we don't, instead we have our control. Finally, using a 2 card combo to do what victarion does alone is not a winning proposition.
You're right, venomous blade is a great card and it is better than claim raising cards. That's why it is restricted and claim raising cards are not. That said, Greyjoy has plenty of "better than claim raising" effects as well.
I agree, less than 10% of decks will ever run APS viper. I speak in broad generalizations, I'm not worried about super rare corner cases.
I'd guess both will be included at least 1x in most Tourney decks. Honestly, I haven't really seen a properly competitive Martell deck without Arianne since PotS came out... So, if you're saying that GJ will be run more than Martell due to the House being in better position in the meta (and thus we'll see more of Victarion), I agree. However, if you're saying that Victarion is somehow the better character (in a vacuum), and thus will be run more, I strongly disagree.
Really, it is a bit of both. Don't get me wrong, Arianne is a great character, and yes she has a keyword and yes she has a noble crest, but Victarion has a military icon and increasing claim on military challenges, especially now that we don't have nearly as many 0 cost claim soak guys floating around is just better against most decks than increasing claim on intrigue. (And they can both increase claim on power, so that kind of cancels out.) And Vic's warcrest is nothing to sneeze at either, nor is the fact that he can turn on naval superiority.
I think you're maybe looking at Chintarion a bit too much from a 'vs. Martell' perspective... I have a feeling the conditionality on his ability (requiring more naval enhanced characters) will be much more of a drawback the further this cycle continues. Maybe not against Martell in particular, but the whole meta in general. We'll probably start seeing a decent spread of Naval characters in all Houses, regardless of them running Black Sails... and if you can negate his claim rase like that, Chintarion becomes a glorified 4g 3 STR with a War-crest. "Whoopty-doo", as they say.
Arianne on the other hand is 100% reliable, self-sufficient... and stealth has been the best keyword in the LCG since it began. To my eyes, there's just no competition to begin with.
Honestly, I don't even think Chintarion makes the Top 5 unique GJ characters list (even The Reader is closer). Not sure whether that's saying something about GJ's character spread or Chintarion though... I could see it argued either way.
First, Greyjoy has, far and away, the best naval characters so far, and we've seen nothing to indicate that isn't going to continue. Second, Lannister has 1 character with a military icon and a possible naval icon and he won't see play outside of black sails, Stark, the king of military challenges, now has 2, but their second one won't see play outside of black sails (and very possibly not in black sails), Baratheon has 2, one of them being unique.
I don't know that I agree stealth is the best keyword. Ambush, Vigilant, and Renown are all, if not better than stealth as good. Heck, vengeful is probably as good as stealth. Add in the various immunities, and especially immunity to opponent's card effects, and I don't think stealth is really a contender for the top spot.
Or you might be biased. That said, I do agree that Greyjoy has some amazing characters. Have you used him yet?
I'm holding off on building my post FAQ Martell deck until the next chapter pack is spoiled, FFG have promised a new agenda that will encourage radical new deck designs in the next pack. Really hoping its not naval enhancement based or else it will be radical new decks for every house but Martell.
I just wonder what could happen if the so invincible Greyjoy player attacking with 4 claim rapist Victarion Greyjoy (RotK) + Naval Superiority (TGF) got hit back by a simple old school Red Vengeance (PotS)...
Do you really think Martell has the disadvantage at this point? And not even pointing out that being a control themed house, it is Martell's specialty to prevent opponents from declaring the challenges they want (or doing any damage with it without getting hit pretty hard too).
Unless this is a "Who can kill more zombies in 30 seconds contest", which then I think Martell would fall behind...