204 replies to this topic

[estyles]

I don't think there's a real need to choose between Elites and Swarms at this stage in the game. The Dynasty card pool is so limited that you're going to have most of the same basic cards.

 

Yes. In dynasty decks, it's more just "which 1 or 2 characters are you leaving out, or which handful of characters are you running 2x". Dynasty deck construction will be a lot more interesting after a cycle.
 

I DO think that not being a slave to staying more honorable than your opponent opens a lot of doors as you're not stuck drawing only one card a turn.

 

But, but... you can't win by honor if you're not more honorable than your opponent... I dunno, I've been finding that if your opponent sticks to the silly strategy of always bidding 5 first turn, you can threaten an honor win by the end of turn 2 (assuming they're not Scorpion or maybe Crab).  3-5 honor gain per turn is not unreasonable in Lion.

 

I also prefer pilgrimage to shameful display, it frees you up from comitting to defense, you just need a token dude there to keep the province breaking and they dont get to trigger a ring even if they win. Honoring characters isn't terribly reliable so I usually skip on Stand Your Ground.

 

Yeah, it's not very reliable when you remove cards that honor your characters...  Pilgrimage is pretty good, better than I think it originally got credit for, but I still like Shameful Display at least in Phoenix and Lion, but probably also in Crane and Scorpion, and unsure about Crab.

[Hakkor]

But, but... you can't win by honor if you're not more honorable than your opponent... I dunno, I've been finding that if your opponent sticks to the silly strategy of always bidding 5 first turn, you can threaten an honor win by the end of turn 2 (assuming they're not Scorpion or maybe Crab).  3-5 honor gain per turn is not unreasonable in Lion.

 

Lion starves for cards. Avoiding breaking their provinces reforces the starvation further more. Winning by dishonor (rather than honor, currently 25 honor is quite impossible to achieve before a dishonor loss, unless your opponent plays plain stupid) should not be a priority for Lion. They are here to break your provinces, and break one per turn with a military conflict. They neeed a minimum of cards to achieve that.

 

But, if your opponent played an assasination and 1-2 banzais to keep you from breaking provinces, then he lost 4-5 honor. That's a good point to start honor choking you opponent. But then, you have had filled your hand in previous turns to consistently break provinces while your opponent is focused on not losing by dishonor. On the other way around, if you are trying to win by honor, the 3-4 turns you will need to get to 25 can mean your opponent filled his hand broke your capital with a hand superiority. Spies at Court can destroy your hand if you are not careful, and focusing on the ring of air leave the earth ring free for your opponent.

 

It's a matter of adaptation, like the rest of clans.

[estyles]

Lion starves for cards. Avoiding breaking their provinces reforces the starvation further more. Winning by dishonor (rather than honor, currently 25 honor is quite impossible to achieve before a dishonor loss, unless your opponent plays plain stupid) should not be a priority for Lion. They are here to break your provinces, and break one per turn with a military conflict. They neeed a minimum of cards to achieve that.

 

If your opponent is not Crab or Scorpion and bids 5, then you start with 16 honor (edit: that was worded wrong - you could still start with 16 honor against those clans, but they can counter your honor gain and Crab can defend your military conflicts, so IMO you probably shouldn't bid 1 against them).  If you have the right cards in hand, you can win via honor by turn 2 or 3, WHILE still breaking a province via military at least once, probably twice.

 

I very much disagree that dishonor is easier than honor (with Lion).  Winning by dishonor requires your opponent to make mistakes, like playing Assassination when they are already low.  Air ring can be twice as good for honor as dishonor, and Lion also has Honored Blade and Ikoma Prodigy (and Honored General and Akodo Gunso and Venerable Historian).

 

"They neeed a minimum of cards..." 

 

Well, then it's a good thing you start with a minimum of cards.

[Hakkor]

Those 4 cards + 2 draw by turn 2 will quickly fade, more so if your opponent hits the earth ring.

 

Of course, it's a viable win if the game takes longer. But you have to be really lucky in card draw to win by honor early. As I said, if (a big if) the opponent bid 5 in first turn and sees your intention, he just needs to keep bidding 1-2 in later turns and hit the earth ring to prevent you from stacking honor fast. In that situation, I have discovered that Lion relies a lot in having their province broken for those 3 extra cards.

 

Other clans have in faction card generation mechanic, which Lion does not. So, eventually, you rely on your honor winning cards and the air ring to win by honor. I bet breaking provinces can be an easier task, unless you opponent botches.

 

I'm just speaking for my own experience. At first when I played Crane and my friend Lion, it was usual the Lion went up to 16, even 18. But was really hard to go up from there. Instead, there were a couple of games were I was down to 3 honor with Crane for drawing too much.

 

Anyway, once Lion gest a couple of cards that earn him extra honor and honor winning becomes more consistent independently of card draw, a Lion honor win will be terrorific; where Lion won't rely on breaking provinces, just wining conflicts to activate rings and pump up honor. Won't be happy to face that.

[Heigai]

Why Keeper of earth is good for Lion?

 

You only get the fate defending, and Lion is terrible defending provinces... Also 3 more influence generally means 1 more card to splash, is not a big deal right now.

 

I think in the core set the Lion strenght is breaking provinces fast, and a Seeker role can be a lot better.

 

For example, imagine if we get Seeker of Air, we can use a earth province under the stronghold, so the option to the attacker against us can be:

 

Fertile Fields: Draw a card + 1 fate 

 

Manicured gardens: Gain 1 fate + 1 fate

 

Art of War: Draw 3 cards

 

Shameful Display: Honor yours, dishonor opponent's

 

Considering what was already said here, one drawback of Lion is that you usually don't get the fate of passing first in dinasty, so every fate is precious for us.

 

I think some players are more worried about being more honorable to keep the little advantages, like honoring the courtier, play a cost 0 guy or keep a 1/1 guy on the table... this is small advantages, they all die for assassination for example, and you have to think what is the cost of bidding low to keep honor high?

[GlaiveGuy]

 

 

Yeah, it's not very reliable when you remove cards that honor your characters...  Pilgrimage is pretty good, better than I think it originally got credit for, but I still like Shameful Display at least in Phoenix and Lion, but probably also in Crane and Scorpion, and unsure about Crab.

 

A valid point, but I think the benefit of including pilgrimage remains. Pilgrimage is hard to break and denies Ring triggers. This frees up your characters for Offense which is where most of Lion's cards and abilities work best. And you'll have a decent size hand of cards because you're not choking yourself on card draw trying to keep yourself more honorable than your opponent. Also Shameful display only triggers on defense, so either I'm honoring a weenie whom I wouldn't want to spend Stand Your Ground on, or I'm honoring a 3+ Cost character who maybe will hang around one more round, but is being wasted on defense THIS turn.

 

Also, you don't need to cut the Honor-Dependent cards from your deck entirely. You can keep them in your deck, maybe just x2 each. Lion has more starting honor than any other clan and there'll be plenty of situations where you can stay more honorable even when you bid 3 as your opener. 

[Killcrazy]

p22 RRG.
 
A player must discard each faceup card from each his or her broken provinces,
 
I know, there's an "of" missing. That's as written in the rrg.
 
Also yeah, holdings are generally pretty bad.  3 per 40 max is my rule, outside of Crab.

Thanks Asklepios and Sparrowhawk for clearing this up abd giving me the rules reference. I stand corrected. Appreciate the bye to blame it all on the RRG.

[Atrus]

Why Keeper of earth is good for Lion?

 

You only get the fate defending, and Lion is terrible defending provinces... Also 3 more influence generally means 1 more card to splash, is not a big deal right now.

 

I think in the core set the Lion strenght is breaking provinces fast, and a Seeker role can be a lot better.

 

 

I agree on this. Maybe the Lion player didn't had much options, or was clever and is waiting for Winter Court to pick Seeker role.

[sparrowhawk]

Heigai, you make very good points. Perhaps Seeker of Air is better as you say but...

 

Already taken were Seeker of Air (Scorpion), Seeker of Void (Phoenix), Keeper of Void (Dragon), Keeper of Air (Crab). What would you have chosen from the remaining?

 

Keeper of Earth gives an incentive to attack in Earth (which is not a popular first choice like Void or Fire) to bring back your Keeper Initiates with +1F. Earth also boosts your card draw which indirectly protects Honour. But Keeper Initiate is a lot better than Seeker Initiate (beyond some niche builds) and allows you to almost totally skip the Honour Dynasty cards. And Earth is strong, in isolation twice as strong as Air (if 1 extra card = 2 honour swing) outside of Honour/Dishonour threats.

 

So overall, can we really criticise the Hatamoto for choosing Keeper of Earth given his choice? The fact that they don't make the choices in reverse order (because Rings are not equal, the Provinces aren't equal and the Initiates aren't either) hence "the more powerful Clans get even more of an advantage" is another issue.

 

For this first Winter Court, you can choose the same role that you already have. It's a specific exception.

[Gauldoth2]

 

 

For this first Winter Court, you can choose the same role that you already have. It's a specific exception.

 

Your are not the first one to write about this, but it was never verified by any FFG employee. The official homepage mentiones no exceptions about the general rule:

 

"After the very first World Champion is crowned, the Roles of Rokugan ceremony will be held. The top finisher from each clan will choose which Keeper or Seeker role their clanmates around the world will include in their decks until the next year's Winter Court. Importantly, they cannot select a role another clan has already selected at this ceremony, and they must each select a different role from the one their clan held leading into this event! In addition, no more than four Keeper or Seeker roles can be chosen amongst all clans."

Source: https://www.fantasyf.../l5r-lcg/roles/

[Heigai]

Heigai, you make very good points. Perhaps Seeker of Air is better as you say but...

 

Already taken were Seeker of Air (Scorpion), Seeker of Void (Phoenix), Keeper of Void (Dragon), Keeper of Air (Crab). What would you have chosen from the remaining?

 

Keeper of Earth gives an incentive to attack in Earth (which is not a popular first choice like Void or Fire) to bring back your Keeper Initiates with +1F. Earth also boosts your card draw which indirectly protects Honour. But Keeper Initiate is a lot better than Seeker Initiate (beyond some niche builds) and allows you to almost totally skip the Honour Dynasty cards. And Earth is strong, in isolation twice as strong as Air (if 1 extra card = 2 honour swing) outside of Honour/Dishonour threats.

 

So overall, can we really criticise the Hatamoto for choosing Keeper of Earth given his choice? The fact that they don't make the choices in reverse order (because Rings are not equal, the Provinces aren't equal and the Initiates aren't either) hence "the more powerful Clans get even more of an advantage" is another issue.

 

For this first Winter Court, you can choose the same role that you already have. It's a specific exception.

 

No, maybe I've been misuterstood.

 

I'm not criticising the hatamoto's choice, he didn't have many options. I see that some people really liked the Keeper, and I feel that seeker match better for Lions.

 

I would like the roles could be choosen in reverse order too, helping to keep the game balanced.

 

Still, maybe a Seeker of Earth could have been a best choice, we could use the two 5 strenght provinces, plus pilgrimage.

 

I really don't like either keeper or seeker initiates for Lion Deck, so the keeper role seems waste to me, maybe having more cards to splash with expansions, it can be more attractive, but I still have this feeling that we need a seeker role.

[freemandas]

This is my new particular vision of the Lion. After several games with the deck weenie I have come to the conclusion that it is not yet the path of the lion. Maybe with the following chapters, but not now.

 

On the other hand, and putting the spotlight on the big guys, I just defined the following work path, and this path is with phoenix clan (I Think display of power is the card that you need to be a big lion at the same way I love Mirumoto's fury in scorpion deck). I also think the Sparrowhawk deck with the clab touch is really interesting.

 

I'm going to try Pilgrimage instead of Shameful Display to see how it goes

 

Stronghold:  
1x Yōjin no Shiro (Core Set #4)

Role:  
1x Keeper of Earth (Core Set #215A)

Province: (5)  
Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (1/1) Void (1/1) Water (1/1)  
1x Ancestral Lands (Core Set #15)
1x Fertile Fields (Core Set #18)
1x Night Raid (Core Set #21)
1x The Art of War (Core Set #11)
1x Pilgrimage (Core Set #22)

Character [Dynasty]: (40)  
3x Akodo Gunsō (Core Set #71)
3x Akodo Toturi (Core Set #79)
3x Honored General (Core Set #77)

2x Ikoma Eiji (Core Set #78)
3x Ikoma Prodigy (Core Set #68)
3x Keeper Initiate (Core Set #124)
3x Kitsu Spiritcaller (Core Set #74)
3x Lion’s Pride Brawler (Core Set #75)
2x Matsu Beiona (Core Set #76)
3x Matsu Berserker (Core Set #69)
3x Miya Mystic (Core Set #125)
3x Obstinate Recruit (Core Set #67)
1x Steadfast Samurai (Core Set #70)

Character [Conflict]: (3/10)  
3x Vengeful Oathkeeper (Core Set #160)

Attachment: (9)  
3x Fine Katana (Core Set #200)
3x Ornate Fan (Core Set #201)
3x Magnificent Kimono (Core Set #172)

Event: (28)  
3x Charge! (Core Set #210)
3x Court Games (Core Set #206)
3x Ready for Battle (Core Set #165)
1x Rout (Core Set #213)
3x Stand Your Ground (Core Set #166)
3x Display of Power (Core Set #179)
3x Banzai! (Core Set #204)
3x Good Omen (Core Set #208)
3x For Greater Glory (Core Set #168)
3x Way of the Lion (Core Set #167)

Holding: (5)  
3x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set #129)
2x Staging Ground (Core Set #80)
 

[sparrowhawk]

I like the thinking. 0 cost Kimono is a nice way to honour your recalled character that you can then save from bottom decking with Stand Your Ground (and a useful +1P bump).

As for Display of Power, it makes sense with the lack of defence but without Kuroi Mori it always provokes the "which Void province?" quandary. Pilgrimage is the better choice for no defence focus but there is anti-synergy whilst Shameful Display only half works (which is still equivalent to a Fire Ring trigger). I think I prefer Shameful Display with it because of Stand Your Ground and Spiritcaller being more suited to defence (as it requires an existing conflict, hence an extra body in attack though it can be the Spiritcaller itself, but this is then 2nd action).

The other point with Display of Power would be to use Manicured Garden over Fertile Fields. My logic focusing on both hand destruction (Night Raid) and card draw (Storehouse, Fertile Fields) to support Keeper of Earth incentive was flawed because it's a curve. Stacking hand destruction has an exponential benefit (reducing someone from x to x-1 cards hurts more than reducing them from x+1 to x cards with infinite removal of options when x=0) but stacking card draw has diminishing benefits. So now my rule is "use Manicured Garden (because of the current rigid 7 supply) except when lacking draw when you use Fertile Fields". Here you have only Obstinate Recruits to limit bids and you have a 2 cost event to fund so I suspect Garden may serve you better.

My main reservation is I don't like playing 2 cost events and even 2 cost attachments without cancel cover as the tempo loss risk is too much (here 2F + 1H). I do suspect Phoenix is viable but I think that may be in a more Honour-focused build that imports Seeker of Air, Kimono and Pacifism to deny them military breaks in return as you over-extend. Such a build has more tools to protect the Lion Honour advantage paramount archetype.

 

 

Thank you for the kind words on Lion (Crab) but I have since made a few changes. Instead of just a new list, here are my changes and, more importantly, my reasons why.

-1 Fertile Fields (diminishing benefit)
+1 Manicured Garden (opens play options)
-1 Shameful Display (lacks defence bodies)
+1 Pilgrimage (better vs low variance POL probes)

-3 Ikoma Eiji (opponent let's you win but not break POL in attack, especially with Deathseeker, and attacks in POL in conflict 4 50% of the time, no Charge benefit)

+3 Staging Ground (a late convert - it's about self-mill to discards to find Brawler, Spiritcaller, Charge + Reprieve / Good Omen targets, also works with Storehouse when you know you won't pass first)

-2 Matsu Beiona (this is a unique you want at x1 because other 2 slots better filled with a cheap Bushi, here more a Charge target as works better with Eiji)

-1 Steadfast Samurai (a blank 1 for 1/1/1 is rarely good value, even if it's a Lion Bushi for card synergy)

+3 Obstinate Recruit (low risk, medium reward, adds Honour advantage incentive to opponent to focus it to be discarded, played with Staging Ground and if it auto discards on entry, it hasn't cost anything to free that province slot, a 0 for 2/0/0 is worth the risk)

-3 Vengeful Oathkeeper (everyone attacks Lion in MIL in conflict 3-4 to play around this, max. +4 benefit from Stronghold and General, then For Greater Glory is the dream, works better if you run Eiji because opponent then plays around visible Eiji)

+3 Banzai (this is simply anti-Banzai and needed as an option in high variance MIL conflicts)

I am very happy with this current iteration with the above changes. However, I accept that Kuroi Mori is an issue. I was reassured to read Kingsley also has misgivings with it as too much of a silver bullet vs. several builds (my misgivings didn't get any traction when I made a fuss on Facebook).

So in an attempt to solve Kuroi Mori, I have been theorycrafting with Lion (Crane) on the assumption that Lion (with Banzai and Way of the Lion insurance) will always break in MIL, so it's all about bolstering POL.


Clan: Lion (Crane)

Stronghold:
1x Yōjin no Shiro (Core Set #4)

Role:
1x Keeper of Earth (Core Set #215A)

Province: (5)
Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (1/1) Void (1/1) Water (1/1)
1x Ancestral Lands (Core Set #15)
1x Manicured Garden (Core Set #19)
1x Night Raid (Core Set #21)
1x Pilgrimage (Core Set #22)
1x The Art of War (Core Set #11)

Character [Dynasty]: (34)
3x Akodo Gunsō (Core Set #71)
3x Akodo Toturi (Core Set #79)
3x Deathseeker (Core Set #72)
3x Honored General (Core Set #77)
3x Ikoma Prodigy (Core Set #68)
3x Keeper Initiate (Core Set #124)
3x Kitsu Spiritcaller (Core Set #74)
3x Lion’s Pride Brawler (Core Set #75)
1x Matsu Beiona (Core Set #76)
3x Matsu Berserker (Core Set #69)
3x Miya Mystic (Core Set #125)
3x Obstinate Recruit (Core Set #67)

 

Holding: (6)
3x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set #129)
3x Staging Ground (Core Set #80)

 

Character [Conflict]: (6)
3x Political Rival (Core Set #140)
3x Steward of Law (Core Set #139)

Attachment: (6)
3x Fine Katana (Core Set #200)
3x Ornate Fan (Core Set #201)

Event: (28)
2x Admit Defeat (Core Set #147)
3x Assassination (Core Set #203)
3x Banzai! (Core Set #204)
3x Charge! (Core Set #210)
3x Court Games (Core Set #206)
3x For Greater Glory (Core Set #168)
3x Ready for Battle (Core Set #165)
2x Rout (Core Set #213)
3x Stand Your Ground (Core Set #166)
3x Way of the Lion (Core Set #167)
 

 

It's still in development but meant to bolster POL threat, add incentive to pass first with lots of Fate in hand, add insurance to holding flood etc. I'd love to add Height of Fashion but in this Let Go meta...

I feel Lion is strong but predictably mono. At least for my taste. A good choice when learning the game because of game time limits.

[freemandas]

And this is my other project with the lion clan. It is based on trying to win for honor. To this day I think it is a concept that is still unstable and difficult to reach, yet I believe that this deck is the closest thing to anything that can follow that path.

 

Supported by phoenix and trying to make 3 or 4 points of honor by turn. The strategy, of course, bid low, honor character and go hard to win in air ring. You have tricks like Seeker of Knowleadge, Toturi or Know the void, the rest is the abitual cards of lion: Blade, General, Prodigy, Gunso.

 

Stronghold:  
1x Yōjin no Shiro (Core Set #4)

Role:  
1x Keeper of Earth (Core Set #215A)

Province: (5)  
Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (1/1) Void (1/1) Water (1/1)  
1x Ancestral Lands (Core Set #15)
1x Fertile Fields (Core Set #18)
1x Night Raid (Core Set #21)
1x Shameful Display (Core Set #24)
1x The Art of War (Core Set #11)

Character [Dynasty]: (41)  
3x Akodo Gunsō (Core Set #71)
3x Akodo Toturi (Core Set #79)
3x Honored General (Core Set #77)
3x Ikoma Prodigy (Core Set #68)
3x Keeper Initiate (Core Set #124)
3x Kitsu Spiritcaller (Core Set #74)
3x Lion’s Pride Brawler (Core Set #75)
3x Matsu Berserker (Core Set #69)
3x Miya Mystic (Core Set #125)
3x Obstinate Recruit (Core Set #67)
2x Steadfast Samurai (Core Set #70)
3x Venerable Historian (Core Set #73)

Character [Conflict]: (6/10)  
3x Seeker of Knowledge (Core Set #171)
3x Vengeful Oathkeeper (Core Set #160)

Attachment: (12)  
3x Fine Katana (Core Set #200)
3x Honored Blade (Core Set #163)
3x Magnificent Kimono (Core Set #172)
3x Ornate Fan (Core Set #201)

Event: (22)  
3x Charge! (Core Set #210)
3x Court Games (Core Set #206)
2x Know the World (Core Set #178)
2x Ready for Battle (Core Set #165)
3x Stand Your Ground (Core Set #166)
3x Way of the Lion (Core Set #167)
3x Good Omen (Core Set #208)
1x Banzai! (Core Set #204)
2x For Greater Glory (Core Set #168)

Holding: (5)  
3x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set #129)
2x Staging Ground (Core Set #80)

[Malefax]

Here is my take on Lion honor switch. I like dragon splash because it does a better job keeping your provinces alive, which is very important for an honor win.

 

http://www.cardgamed...onor-switch-r70

[Hakkor]

I've been trying the deck, and as you said it needs some extra cards to achieve consistency.

The main strenght is that you only need to focus on a single conflict.

The drawback is that you desperatedly need characters on the board, as each unopposed conflit is -1 honor and a single character may not be enough to claim the air ring.

The card disadvantage also means the first turn your characters in the air conflict will consistently be bowed por sent home. Your opponent can also claim the air ring on initiative.

Considering your opponent won't be stupid enough to bid high, it's hard to get past honor 20. At least that's been my experience. Maybe there's something I was doing wrong.

[freemandas]

I've been trying the deck, and as you said it needs some extra cards to achieve consistency.

The main strenght is that you only need to focus on a single conflict.

The drawback is that you desperatedly need characters on the board, as each unopposed conflit is -1 honor and a single character may not be enough to claim the air ring.

The card disadvantage also means the first turn your characters in the air conflict will consistently be bowed por sent home. Your opponent can also claim the air ring on initiative.

Considering your opponent won't be stupid enough to bid high, it's hard to get past honor 20. At least that's been my experience. Maybe there's something I was doing wrong.

 

I think the best way to get it can be through large combos. To gain points gradually with: Ikoma prodigy, blade of honor and to honor everything possible, and to be preparing strong blows of honor like: Charge + Totuti in the ring of air and even return to win in the following conflict using the know the world; using Seeker of Knowleadge the most you can. In a perfect turn you can win even 8 or 10 points (depending how much character have honored)

[HidaHayabusa]

Hello all, 

After spending all my prerelease time testing Crabs, I am going to dedicate some games to Lions. I've come up with two lists, both untested. The first one uses Cranes for the Admit Defeat/Voice of Honor and Stewards, while the other one uses Unicorns for the Spyglass/Captive Audience, since I think Lion are a low bid clan and somehow we need to generate card draw or cantrips. 

Let me know if I missed something entirely:

 

Lion/Crane: https://fiveringsdb....1ccf16fca4/view

 

Lion/Unicorn: https://fiveringsdb....1ccf16fca4/view

[Heigai]

What do you think about the.. lets call "Revenge" mechanic, I'm talking about Ikoma Eiji and Vengeful Oathkeeper.

 

It's a interesting theme, but I can't play this cards well..

 

Vengefull Oathkeeper: Normally the first attack a Lion receive is political, cause our opponents know it is our weakness, also usually you want to declare your first conflict MIL, to ensure a certain ring, or use For Greater Glory, etc.., in games I've played I learned to don't waste the first attack. So when this guy came up for free, most of times I just have a political attack to make (or no attack remaining), and it don't make much difference, it works better with Unicorn splash (captive audience), or against a Lion or Unicorn deck, that may declare the MIL conflict first. If this guy was 1 fate cost he would be great, but 2 fate make him be stucked in my hand many times..

 

Ikoma Eiji: This works after you loose a political conflict, so is easier to activate. However is a expensive dynasty char, and when you play it, your opponent know what to do.. Also, his stats are terrible for his cost, making him a good target to Cloud the Mind too.

 

What do you think about, they are working fine in your decks?

[HidaHayabusa]

Whatever it takes to make something different than the 'full out attack' current Lion lists. Most of the games I've won with Lion are either tempo-based, hitting an amazing opening and overwhelming the military channel while Captive Audience ensures at least one good defense, or riding the 'I won't pay for Toturi' train with Charge/Kitsu Spiritcaller and double rings from the champion. 

Let's make a Revenge Lion list and compare notes.